Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

pipeking said:
3DTOPO said:
fechter said:
The physics is pretty straightforward. Slower speed or bigger battery are your two main options.
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Personally, I am pretty content with the range, but I think it would be awesome if someone developed auxiliary side packs. Two 10 pound packs (one on each side) could give the bike 50% more range and I don't think it would dramatically change the bike's handling if mounted on each side of the pack.

I'm not sure if I would be crazy about having a giant lithium battery on my person though. If the pack malfunctioned or was pierced from impact, you would be in a world of sh*t!
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This was what I was thinking too, or even a pack that you could carry easy enough in a backpack. Like 5kgs (10pounds) I'm not sure if I'm clever enough to try to build a battery from scratch, but what I wanted to know was, does the BMS part matter? Can you unplug the main battery feed and plug another battery onto it just like that? Or is it more complicated?
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I'm not sure. But the pack itself would have to have a BMS. Not sure if it would work, but I was thinking if the pack was the right voltage, it seems like it could just plug into the charging port of the built-in pack. I mean all the charger is essentially doing is providing DC electrons to the pack at the right voltage. Not as ideal as directly powering from the auxiliary pack, but seems like it would be the simplest implementation.

pipeking said:
Yes I think so too, I want to try the new controller out and see if that makes a difference. I'm not sure how long I'm going to have to wait though, it sounds like they are in short supply.
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If you find yourself riding the breaks a lot, then it will definitely make a noticeable improvement to the range, your pads will last much longer, less likely to overheat the pads, and you will have much better braking power when needed.

Looks like @Aebrennan aebikes have them in stock and ship internationally:
https://www.aebikes.com.au/spare-parts.html
 
Of course anything could be done to extend range but because of complexity you are pretty much going to have to stick with a single pack. Connecting multiple packs adds too much complexity. What happens if the voltages are not all the same? You could use multiple packs but you would have to fabricate everything yourself and then deal with making sure all the cell voltages are equalized before connecting the packs in parallel.


A single pack may be modified to possibly fit a lot more cells than the stock pack. We need someone to see how many 18650 cells they can cram into the pack without spacers, then we can determine how much the range can be increased.
 
3DTOPO said:
Do you have a log to see how much energy is actually being delivered to the motor?

Just because its an 8kw motor doesn't mean its drawing 8kw. At 8kw you would have a runtime of 22.5 minutes with a 3kw/h battery. That means to cover 50-miles at 8kw, you would have to do 133MPH! Simple math - that does add up.

Since people are getting a 25-mile range on the Sur-Ron, then with a 3kw/h battery it could do close to 40 miles as well. :roll:
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My peak is 8KW, of course I'm not at the peak the whole time. But you are also not using peak power with the Sur-Ron all the time.

Unless that 25 mile Sur-Ron range was full throttle while on the highway? I may have missed his driving conditions to get the 25 miles.

If he is getting 25 miles with full throttle all the time, then that is pretty damn good. Then it comes down to the field weakening, because without field weakening my bike would peak around 2500 watts at full throttle when I hit top speed. With field weakening my bike hits 8KW at full throttle and at top speed.
 
Offroader said:
My peak is 8KW, of course I'm not at the peak the whole time. But you are also not using peak power with the Sur-Ron all the time.

Unless that 25 mile Sur-Ron range was full throttle while on the highway? I may have missed his driving conditions to get the 25 miles.
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The general consensus seems to be that it achieves around a 25-mile range regardless of going fast or taking it easy (ignoring EP mode).

If I ride it hard here in the mountains, I will get considerably less than 25 miles. I think most people don't ride on nearly as steep stuff as what I have out my back door. I would say my range is between 18-26 miles in sports mode depending on how hard I ride it.

Just get an X Controller for field weakening which is what I run.
 
3DTOPO said:
I bet Sur Ron's larger power systems are beasts! Their biggest is 14kw continuous and 28kw peak:

https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicl...ms-for-diy-and-electric-motorcycle-companies/

If you were able to push 28kw through the small one, I can even imagine what the big one could do hot-rodded! :twisted:
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I like the way you are thinking. Had my eyes on the dual motor for a while but I can't get any info from surron. :? :(
That dual motor I have tried for while now to gather information about, but Sur Ron seems to have gone to "radio-silence-mode". They never return emails anymore and I must have tried to contact them 4-5 times now for price quotes, availability and MOQ. No replies.

Anyone knows the price of that motor and if it is possible to order one or two motors only? That motor also comes in in a version with a dual controller combo, is that a dual x-controller or something more radical then the x-controller? The peak performance suggest more radical, but I don't know because Sur Ron keep ignoring my emails.

Are any of the Sur Ron dealers able to order those motors? Maybe if you guys selling Sur Ron's check with your Sur Ron contacts for prices, controller data etc it would actually be addressed rather then ignored?
 
Offroader said:
Of course anything could be done to extend range but because of complexity you are pretty much going to have to stick with a single pack. Connecting multiple packs adds too much complexity. What happens if the voltages are not all the same? You could use multiple packs but you would have to fabricate everything yourself and then deal with making sure all the cell voltages are equalized before connecting the packs in parallel.


A single pack may be modified to possibly fit a lot more cells than the stock pack. We need someone to see how many 18650 cells they can cram into the pack without spacers, then we can determine how much the range can be increased.
Click to expand...

Dual pack was done on the 50 kw electric supermotor build by an ES member, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyHj3yViHGY.
He replaced the front radiators with dual packs and it worked well for him. I am no EE but I think if you match the packs well in capacity and voltages you will be fine.

Someone suggested a page or two back a carry-on.over-the-frame solution for the additional battery where 2 packs where mounted of each side of the frame. If those matches the original battery should all work out well, yes? Or am I too ignorant or too unschooled to see obvious flaws here?
 
as far as increasing the range on surron such as for commuting or enduro riding, etc ..

you could likely fit quite of few more cells under the moto seat with a custom seat strut.. slide the optional seat batt pack in and out from the back (keep an eye on suspension clearance or run a bit smaller diameter rear wheel for more clearance such as 18" rear wheel) .. also a rear rack with side hard case mount could be used for extra battery storage, etc .. and you could increase the stock battery height above the current batt cover by maybe 10-20% + similar to zero power tank range extender .. I would be watching EVE bikes (surron France) as one of the firsts to offer surron mods since they were involved with helping surron achieve homolgation and have the different surron body kit styles in the works..
 
3DTOPO said:
pipeking said:
Yes I think so too, I want to try the new controller out and see if that makes a difference. I'm not sure how long I'm going to have to wait though, it sounds like they are in short supply.
Click to expand...

If you find yourself riding the breaks a lot, then it will definitely make a noticeable improvement to the range, your pads will last much longer, less likely to overheat the pads, and you will have much better braking power when needed.

Looks like @Aebrennan aebikes have them in stock and ship internationally:
https://www.aebikes.com.au/spare-parts.html
Click to expand...

Nope, he says he doesn't have them. I bought my bike from him so I feel like he would sell me one if he had them, I even offered to pay in advance but he reckons he has some on the way, arriving early november.

All I can do is wait I guess.

Its actually really difficult to get anything for this bike here in NZ, I don't know why, but I don't get replies from the guys who are supposed to the nz dealer. I have been trying to get a controller and a 52T sprocket since I got my bike in August... Adam is really busy but I think the aussie guys are getting the parts first
 
Our latest shipment arrived on Friday and we will be sending out pre orders this week to our Australian and New Zealand customers. The controllers have not been reliable and I would prefer not to send anymore overseas until the factory can support customer warranty directly. The X-perimental controllers and bikes were Chinese domestic market only for good reason.
 
Aebrennan said:
Our latest shipment arrived on Friday and we will be sending out pre orders this week to our Australian and New Zealand customers. The controllers have not been reliable and I would prefer not to send anymore overseas until the factory can support customer warranty directly.
Click to expand...

I'm just curious what has been the problem with the X Controllers? I haven't had any issues with mine after about 300 miles on it. But I kept my stock one just in case though. :wink:

Aebrennan said:
The X-perimental controllers and bikes were Chinese domestic market only for good reason.
Click to expand...

Didn't they discontinue the non-X model? The only model they list on tmall now is the X model. So did they work out the issue, or are they selling a "defective" model now?
 
The sine wave controllers are termed “unstable” by the factory whatever their understanding of the term is?
We have had issues of throttle not responding, throttle not responding with identical power delivery, no drive from standstill, and poor wiring termination at connectors.
We are not given any diagnostic cabling or software to diagnose so the only way is to fit the standard controller to confirm.
I will check the latest batch of controllers and see what software version they are up to, the controllers we received in July were version 2.1 and the regen was subtle and top speed was 60kmh by gps test.
The factory still supplies the reliable square wave version and I suspect that will continue as the road legal bike EU L1e version was homologated with this controller.
 
ziltoid81 said:
So i get basically no sinewave, no regen, for 4800€ (thats nearly 5500$) ..... here in EU(of course the streetlegal version)?
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depends on what your dealer orders and what Sur-Ron ships.. you can get Sur-Ron L1e homolgated version with X controller or add it after market..

example :
https://stagmotorcycles.co.uk/products/stag-firefly-road-legal-sur-ron-light-bee-le1
 
At that price the Zero FX is only a few grand more and in my state there is a tax credit $750 for purchasing one!

Sur-ron imo is a $3k dollar bike any more and it starts getting laughable
 
skeetab5780 said:
At that price the Zero FX is only a few grand more and in my state there is a tax credit $750 for purchasing one!

Sur-ron imo is a $3k dollar bike any more and it starts getting laughable
Click to expand...

Compared to what? Where are the bikes that go 40mph with 30 miles range for $3,000 out the door. Ebikes are stupid expensive if you don't build them yourself. Although the Zero is getting to be a great deal now. Still, they are completely different bikes. You can't take a zero on bike trails, and you can't wreck a Sur-ron like you could a zero without destroying it. They are both electric and have 2 wheels, but not very similar at all. I can't imagine anyone shopping for a bike or motorcycle actually choosing between those 2, except maybe a huge EV nerd. Anyone else is looking at one or the other.
 
Take a look at the first page of this thread...they started off at under $3000 actually.

You can have your opinion and ill have that much more money in the bank! But yes a Zero and sur ron are not nearly the same that is exactly why the sur ron should not be $6000
 
Maybe buy it direct here :https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2018-New-Electric-Dirt-Bike-Electric_60768736533.html?spm=a2700.8443308.0.0.403a3e5ffpA61j
 
skeetab5780 said:
Take a look at the first page of this thread...they started off at under $3000 actually.

You can have your opinion and ill have that much more money in the bank! But yes a Zero and sur ron are not nearly the same that is exactly why the sur ron should not be $6000
Click to expand...

remember this is the homolgated version and europe price.. homolgation costs money, how much is the homolgated kuberg and lmx?? comparison to zero is not relevant .. the off-road version with square wave controller is available for less$$ and you could always change the controller if you want regen..
 
Im not sure i can relate to the homolgation costing more since that does not really matter here in the states. Fetcher and other members are street commuting with the regular sur-ron with very few mods(lights blinkers and mirrors) you dont even need a license plate holder because mopeds just get a sticker around here. With that being said maybe things are more strict on the other side of the world, but to make the vehicles price double? Now thats ridiculous

I guess you can blame tariffs too but where do you draw the line? For me its not ever buying one of these bikes. I just sit back and watch

And the Zero comparison is based strictly on price ofc. I myself shy away from the Zero because you need actual insurance and plates since its an actual motorcycle
 
Not that i dont have the money but it went through the roof a little bit.
I understand that everybody wants to push their profits to the max but it changes the bike from a fairly cheap great deal to a rip off.
There are other bikes like the bultaco brinco in this new price range.
And the spare parts and service situation is still unclear.

However i just found a german vendor via german craigslist and they do an early bird/preorder offer for 3900€ for the street legal version.
Its a bikeshop.
But theyre stating that the bikes will stock up or arrive in feb/march.
Will write them an see.
Also a second bikeshop which offers for 4200€......i wonder that theyre making better prices like the big players mentioned here, but at this stage i dont know how legit these offers are.
 
ziltoid81 said:
However i just found a german vendor via german craigslist and they do an early bird/preorder offer for 3900€ for the street legal version.
Its a bikeshop.
But theyre stating that the bikes will stock up or arrive in feb/march.
Will write them an see.
Also a second bikeshop which offers for 4200€......i wonder that theyre making better prices like the big players mentioned here, but at this stage i dont know how legit these offers are.
Click to expand...

Any links for them?
 
skeetab5780 said:
Im not sure i can relate to the homolgation costing more since that does not really matter here in the states.
Click to expand...

Did I miss something? If you are in the states, why not purchase from Luna? They are $3,890 - that is a pretty far cry from $6,000.

skeetab5780 said:
I guess you can blame tariffs too but where do you draw the line? For me its not ever buying one of these bikes. I just sit back and watch
Click to expand...

Luna claims that the Imbecile in Chief's tariffs is costing $500 per bike. I actually believe them too, because they didn't immediately raise the price on the bikes in stock after the tariffs went into effect, they raised them on the next shipment.

skeetab5780 said:
And the Zero comparison is based strictly on price ofc. I myself shy away from the Zero because you need actual insurance and plates since its an actual motorcycle
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that if you ride the Sur-Ron on any public streets in the US you will still need "moped" insurance (and possibly plates depending on the state), and a motorcycle endorsement in some states.
 
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