macribs wrote: ↑
Nov 07 2018 7:03am
Be aware of alibaba. If Alibaba didn't recently change their policies alibaba does not provide any help if you are scammed.
I have used Alibaba numerous times and never had an issue with them. The most notorious cases of scam usually have to do with imitation name brands - like a Gucci bag that is not made by Gucci and cost 25% of what the name brand cost. If it’s too good to be true, it probably is.
You can also see how long the business has been operating on Alibaba, and what their ratings are. If you don’t trust the company, I wouldn’t bother with them, but you can use Alibaba’s Escrow payment system for protection.
I could be wrong, but I suspect that the Alibaba seller is directly related to Qiulong Technology (Sur Ron). Don’t forget that Sur Ron was founded by one of the main people at Alibaba.
macribs wrote: ↑
Nov 07 2018 7:15am
3DTOPO wrote: ↑
Nov 07 2018 1:28am
I got a price for the X Model from Alibaba. It is $2,850 FOB.
From China to Portland is about $280. I would then be responsible for import duties/tariffs and delivery from Portland to where I live.
So if we assume $500 for tariffs that would be $3,630 plus shipping from Portland to here which would be at least $200 I would guess.
So that puts it right at the same cost Luna sells the regular version. But since the X Model is only $150 more than the standard version - I think that it shows that Luna is offering a fair price on it, and really hard to beat (especially because they are in stock). Transit time is estimated 32 days to port.
It would cost slightly less considering Luna's $3,850 tag doesn't include shipping and it would be the X Model, so good to know that (1) we can even order the X Model in the US, and (2) it can be had for a bit less than ordering through Luna.
But why? You get the x-controller and might save 1-200 $. But what do you do if there is a warranty issue? I tell you, you are out of luck and the initial savings are gone out the window. Best case you are able to contact seller and the seller admits to being responsible for replacement. So you ship out you damaged part out of pocket, and get your new part which you also need to pay shipment for. Worst case, seller ignores you or tell you to fcuk off. Then what?
For that amount of money I would say it makes sense to support you local dealer. Luna can only keep their Sur Ron deal if the sell enough to make money. If every other potential buyer will do their own side import, well in that case you might soon be without a US dealer. People buying this bike likely will use it for what, at least 5-6 years. It will be great for you guys to be able to source parts locally, from a shop that keep inventory. Rather then risk 6 weeks delivery from China.
First of all, I said that based on what it costs to order yourself, that Luna is hard to beat. If it was the same model and you might save a couple hundred bucks, I think the wait alone wouldn’t be worth it. On top of that, it would be hours of work to make all the arrangements (customs, freight, etc). I value my time, so I would not be saving anything - if they are the same model.
But when you take into account that it is the X Model, well, that changes the calculations considerably. There are monetary considerations and functionality considerations. If you value just the X Controller at $500, then you are looking at possibly reducing the cost by $800. And that is IF you can even find an X Controller to buy! There are other differences too, an improved seat, titanium brake calipers, upgraded chain, an improved BMS, etc. What is all that stuff worth? Easily $200 I would think, so now you are looking at a reduced cost of $1,000. And again, if you can even buy an upgraded seat (Luna ignored my inquiry about ordering them).
So even if you ignore any potential savings, you are getting something that is currently impossible to even get from Luna.
As far as supporting Luna, I have been treated very poorly from them every time I have ever made contact with them. They banned me from their Facebook page for trying to help folks. They have made so many misleading claims and downright lies (remember the website they put up but tried to make it look like it was a 3rd party) that it is really borderline fraud. They treat everyone with a "holier than thou" attitude. They told me over 6 months ago that they would have the warranty information posted “Very soon”. Well, 6-months later they still haven't posted a warranty. That’s pretty weird considering the bike comes with a factory warranty! Other distributors are honoring it.
And as far as them replacing defective items, my biggest concern was that I could receive a battery (the most expensive component) dead-on-arrival. I asked what happens then, and they said (emphasis added):
They will be covered by the warranty. No worries. As for battery questions. I’m not liable to answer that right now. Generally speaking if you can prove it was defective, we’ll be happy to help you
How on earth do you prove
it was defective versus being damaged? When you order with Luna, you are at their mercy. They just might "ignore you or tell you to fcuk off
Anyhow, I have tried to work with Luna time and time again. I have no desire to do business with them again unless I have absolutely no other choice. I am certainly not just going to blindly support them that is for sure.