List of small hatchback cars

About to click on the buy button here:
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.aspx

ServiceExpress is American Honda and Honda Canada's service repair information website for independent repair shops and vehicle owners. This information covers all Honda and Acura vehicles from 1990 to current.
1 Day - $10.00 USD
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or

Service Information System is American Honda's dealer website for service repair information. Service Information System contains the same information as ServiceExpress, but Service Information System has additional advanced search capabilities.
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30 Days - $100.00 USD
365 Days - $1,000.00 USD

If my goal was to copy all the Technical Information on 2019 Honda Fit would the additional advanced search capabilities be of any help? I don't think so?

If in the future I ever need i-HDS Standard Diagnostic Software
1 Day Subscription - $10.00
30 Day Subscription - $133.00
365 Day Subscription - $1,547.00
Hopefully will find a hacked version on eBay like I did for the truck. Or free hacked version?

Read the small print.
Refunds
Your subscription to the Site may be refundable at Honda's discretion. If you are requesting a refund or credit, the following policies apply:

1-day subscriptions - non refundable
30-day subscriptions - refunds may be made based on days remaining
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SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

Personal Computer (PC)

Laptop or desktop computer
Intel or AMD processor: 2.0 GHz or higher
Keyboard & mouse
Memory (RAM): 1GB or higher
Hard Drive Space: 20 GB or more
Floppy Drive: not required
USB: 1.0 or higher
Network Card: 10/100/1000 Mbps Ethernet
Optical Drive: 8x DVD-ROM
Video Resolution: see Display Requirements
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Internal or external audio speakers

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Internet Explorer 10 or 11; Chrome ver.44*, Firefox Ver.40, Safari Ver.8
Note: Due to recent changes made by Google, the current Chrome ver. 45 is not fully supported

USA Tool Requirements
HDS software and J2534software:
Windows Vista Home Premium (32bit only)
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Windows 7 Professional (32bit and 64bit)
Windows 8 Professional (32bit and 64bit)

Canada Tool Requirements
HDS: Windows XP 32bit
Windows Vista (32bit only)
Windows Vista Business (32bit only)
Windows 7 Professional (32bit and 64bit)
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Recommended display resolution is 1024 x 768 with the large font setting.
800 x 600 will work, but some procedures work better at the higher resolution.

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ServiceExpress requires Internet Explorer 10 or 11; Chrome ver.44*, Firefox Ver.40, Safari Ver.8

Earlier versions of Internet Explorer are not supported.
Netscape, AOL are not supported.
Internet connection: 56k or faster.

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OK how to copy all this?
Lets take a look at the horn. PDF drawing nice!
View attachment 1
This is the best easiest to use service manual I have ever seen. Wondering where the horn relay is? Click on it

Next project https://www.httrack.com/ Hope it works?

Why print things? there's several virtual printers out there ( such as cutePDF ), and we can save 'da trees using them..

Anyway i'd scratch the Mitsubishi Mirage off your list.. it is a miserable car and real world fuel economy results is a 1-2mpg better than the Yaris IA.. you also have 1 less cylinder with that car.. you're going to do 0-60 in 12.5 seconds with the CVT, maybe 11 seconds with the manual.. whereas the Yaris IA does that in about 9 seconds with the manual.

The tires are also super small and the car will ride very rough as a result. The ~2000lb curb weight helps negate that, but it's still not going to be fun on the highway.. and god forbid you encounter a headwind or hill at highways speeds.. :lol:

I drove an original Honda Insight which is very similar in curb weight and power to the Mirage.. it was pretty miserable.. it's only redeeming quality was the amazing fuel economy. The Mitsubishi doesn't even really have that.. and that's due to the poorer aerodynamics thanks to the stubby shape. I'm sure the Mitsu would beat a Yaris IA in city fuel economy though due to the low curb weight alone.

neptronix said:

'da trees

Click to expand...

Tree (data structure)
How?

neptronix said:

Why print things? there's several virtual printers out there ( such as cutePDF ), and we can save 'da trees using them..

Click to expand...

Now I see what you typing. 'da is the. [save THE trees] Is that how people in Utah talk? Just so you know. The is spelled THE.

What I thought you were thinking? Since Neptronix is our forum web guy I assumed he had a off line PDF service manual all copied in his mind. Click on the part. Picture pops up showing where part is located in the car. Click on the picture and another page pops up showing how to test that part.

Been finding my way around 'da Honda Service Express web site. Wondering what those letters above the wire colors were? Wire Harnesses.
View attachment 3

View attachment 2




Tried copying techinfo.honda.com with HTTrack Website Copier Starting with the page after I log in. It runs for about 1/2 a hour and copies a whole bunch of pages but nothing useful. Tried starting from other web addresses or URLs. Not working. Most likely is that I got HTTrack settings wrong or this is not possible?

Any HTTrack web site copying experts here? I see frames and javascript.

Why am I looking at gas cars? Why would I want to spend the next 15 to 20 years of my life buying gasoline? How much for the cheapest electric car? Hybrid with 2 engines seems like a lot more mechanical stuff that will fail and need to be repaired. My brain is having enough trouble repairing one engine vehicles. The thought of buying a new battery is more money then I want to think about.

Grease Car!
https://www.greasecar.com/
My brother has one. Old diesel Mercedes that he had converted to run on used fryer oil. Smells like burnt chicken when you drive behind him.

Wondering if I want to spend my time collecting, storing, filtering, dirty vegetable oil - OR - Working for money to buy gas?

Wondering if converting a new diesel car to run on fryer grease would void the warranty?

My brother explains that when he starts a trip his car runs on diesel. After the fryer grease warms up, he switches a switch to change from diesel to fryer grease. Before he reaches his destination he switches back to diesel. So this only makes sense for long trips.

Flood in Honda Mexico factory.
Flooding will dent Honda's sales, earnings
Could buy a black Honda Fit from the local dealer. I want Blue.

Been poking around here.
https://www.cars.com/
Search inventory 500 miles from a zip code.

Got a quote from a dealer in New York State. Having some major sales tax confusion

Here is 37 pages of fun reading:
Pub 838:12/12:A Guide to Sales Tax for Automobile Dealers,pub848 - pub838.pdf
https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/sales/pub838.pdf

neptronix said:

-dg said:

I hated the Yaris I drove as a rental. As I remember, it did not ride well and the there was no feedback from the steering or controls so it was hard to drive smoothly. Maybe they got better, but would not look at those. Mazda 2 is something we considered before the Fit and it was OK. Mazda 3 is a nice drive, but the Fit has more utility.

Click to expand...

Was it the hatchback? because yes, i would agree with you, but that's a completely different car than the Yaris IA.

Click to expand...

Kept my Yaris for a couple of weeks. Terrifying vehicle to drive in truck and SUV traffic. I could be doing 90 and the big toys had to pass. Emergency handling? No way, completely unconnected form the road. I really wanted to like the Yaris Hatchback and had one of the. first models. The hatch has remained a bummer.

I also don't like the Yaris either because the driving dynamics are so poor that i felt the car was unsafe as well.

My Yaris IA on the other hand has been a peach to drive. It has good brakes ( although the rear drum leads to some front dive ), good handling, and good acceleration but you'll never get much of a thrill out of it, which is okay as it's a hyper efficient econobox, you know?

Here's my recent fuel economy high score, now that the stinkbox is finally worn in.. doing about 60 on average in traffic in the right lane.



Ironically the car cannot display over 70mpg in the bar display and counts 170mpg when you are coming to a stop in gear, which is actually infinity mpg until you drop below about 1,000rpm.

Maybe i got 70mpg; i dunno!

[youtube]fBwoeIrSjpk[/youtube]
mpgomatic squeezed 51mpg out of the new corolla hatchback with a CVT and it does 0-60 in 8 seconds.

Not bad for a 600lb heavier car than mine with a 2 liter.
Although i'd pick the mazda3 over it any day of the week.

But the new Mazda3 HCCI engine could blow everyone else out of the water..
The new 2.0 is supposed to produce 190 horsepower and return 45-50mpg.

I expect it to blow everything else away on the market.
..but if you buy one, you are a beta tester for a first generation HCCI supercharged engine.

2019 Toyota Corolla Hatchback
https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/corolla-hatchback/2019/hatchback/
MSRP range
$19,990 - $24,090

$20,000 for what will be rusted junk in 15 to 20 years. Salt on the roads in the north really turns steel cars to small flakes of brown rust. I want a PLASTIC car! Check out my plastic truck. The whole thing is plastic. Plastic floor. Plastic fire wall.
2012 Isuzu Reach
Went looking for a picture. Looks like Isuzu is not selling these anymore? Need to buy from http://utilimaster.spartanmotors.com/

I should be working in truck sales. 2 guys found me here https://sprinter-source.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-11341.html and asked me questions.

For anyone looking to buy a stepvan? Reach is good. Noisy, bumpy / mirrors work good. Mine is 12 foot. FedEx's that I see driving around are 14 foot. I happy with 12 foot. 2 feet less to accidentally back into something.

With good care our Camry is spotless after 4 years in the desert and 11years in salted snow.

Every little econo box makes you get up of the ground to get out. I feel like I'm in a confined space and it's a struggle to get in and out. Looks like it'll be a gas eating Rav4 and we can safely drive the wintry roads for the next 5 months. Bit I have to say I'm completely bummed by the compact models on the market. They weren't made for old farts with arthur as a regular friend.

Some folk seem to limit their choices for illogical reasons.
If economy is your priority, and you believe fuel is the biggest cost factor (it isnt !). , then you should be looking at PHEVs, or even full EVs.
If you need a vehicle that is easy to get in/out of, then you should look at SUV,s etc.
If you want something small, then focus on those hatchbacks,..i30, Yarris, Mazda 2 etc..
If you look hard enough you will find a compromise of two or more of your priorities...
If you want something cheap, .....dont look at new vehicles.
......but do not expect to find the ideal vehicle, unless you are very lucky or relaxed in your desires.

Most of the choices are fine, though I would not pick the fiat, unless it was a crazy good deal.
Hatchback for the win btw, or a full van. Haven't owned a car with a trunk since the 64 falcon.


My wife loves her focuses, but believe me, you DO NOT want to wrench on one. We spend 700 bucks to replace radiator hoses once, which requires special factory tools. Dump a focus at about 100-120 thousand miles, ALWAYS. About the time you need a manual.


My last three cars have been subarus. Why? I spent 8 hours cussing an alternator out of an old honda civic once. I can put the entire engine of a subaru forester on the table in the garage in 45 min. Bummmer! takes 30 min longer than the old bugs used to. 20 mins of that is remove the radiator and hoses, and disconnect the exhaust. ( didn't have either of those to do on bugs) Alternator change or AC compressor change on a subaru is about 15 min. CV joints about 45 min. Even if you don't work on your car yourself, this is a money saver!! Not like the *(*T*&^&$ focus radiator hoses. Subarus are the very last car made that is designed to be repaired later. no others are. This is the real reason you see an old brat, or legacy still running at 40 years old. They don't last longer at all, but they can be fixed. All my foresters or legacy cars have been very quite rides, unlike the loud, rattly focus.


By the time you need it, you can get a chilton or hanes manual for any car, first years you are in warranty, and it can be worth it to get additional for a few more. I carried warranty on my current forester for 3 years after I bought it, 2 years old. Didnt use it, but it was worth it to roll it into the payment, just in case it sucked a valve, or the timing belt broke.

As for rust, you do know you absolutely need a winter beater in Buffalo. Or own a car wash. Park whatever you buy next winter, might be too late to find a beater for this one.

Your winter beater will be of course, a Subaru. A forester with 200 thou plus miles on it. But you have to buy it in a place they are common, but not driven in snow all that much. Phoenix. Fly out, buy one, drive home. In January of course!

We looked into Subarus for my wife.
Every single used one had a different engine noise that indicates issues with the headgasket, timing chain/belt, or worse, and these cars were in the 100-150k mileage range.

The smaller new subarus come with a 2.0L motor that blows oil out the tailpipe and is even less reliable than the old 2.5-2.2..

Ended up with a 4wd Toyota Rav4 with the 2.0L VVT engine. A peach to wrench on.
Yes, Toyota later moved to a 2.4L motor that is a reliability nightmare..

I am also looking at getting a new small car, budget around 15k in US dollar.

I am considering the Suzuki Celerio, very economical at a real life 60mpg (my mam has one, hope I did the conversion to mpg correct). For me it is kinda small though, so I added the Skoda Fabia and the Citroen C3 to the list. Especially the Citroen seems to be well catered to the intended use, long distance travelling...

I think both cars are unknown in the US ?

Will start testdriving soon. Will try my mams car around christmas time and decide after that...

Lebowski said:

Suzuki Celerio

Click to expand...

In 2003 bought a new Suzuki Aerio SX. My cousin used to get a new car every week. He would drive the car, then write about it for magazines. When I was looking to buy a small hatchback car. He said "Suzuki best deal."

Few days after I bought the Suzuki. Bought a paper service manual. Easy to understand words and color wire diagrams. Service manual does have a few mistakes, but all and all a excellent book. Suzuki now has 200,000 miles and has had no out of the ordinary repairs. Car is named Suzy. After the warranty ran out I have fixed everything my self. Got the list of repairs in my mind if anyone wants records.

Full size 1998 Dodge Van service manual. Words so hard to understand. I would rather read the Bible. Dodge service manual writer people should be embarrassed that people in Japan write better English.

No more Suzuki's for sale in the US. Closest dealer for parts is now a hour away.

Soon after buying Suzy the Suzuki, hit a deer. The deer just kept on running. He/She might be a little sore? Crash was the deers fault. Learned about auto body repair. Spot welded parts underneath. I don't weld. Used caulking and big rivets. Marty's bumper repair method. Remove bumper. Duct tape on the inside. Drill little holes and use wire ties.

dogman dan said:

Alternator change or AC compressor change on a Subaru is about 15 min.

Click to expand...

Alternator in the Suzuki takes me 2 days. On alternator number 3. After doing it 3 times, it still takes me 2 days. Wondering if my alternators fail every 70,000 miles or so because of 2 big amplifiers for music?

So yea, a whole day to get to the point where you can see the alternator. One more day to put it all back together.

AC pumps and/or the electro clutch on them are my pet hate....always in some akward, inaccessible location.

neptronix said:

We looked into Subarus for my wife.
Every single used one had a different engine noise that indicates issues with the headgasket, timing chain/belt, or worse, and these cars were in the 100-150k mileage range.

The smaller new subarus come with a 2.0L motor that blows oil out the tailpipe and is even less reliable than the old 2.5-2.2..

Ended up with a 4wd Toyota Rav4 with the 2.0L VVT engine. A peach to wrench on.
Yes, Toyota later moved to a 2.4L motor that is a reliability nightmare..

Click to expand...

2.5L and one of the most reliable of engines I've owned. BUT I don't wrench. The fella that got the deal bought our 2005 Camry 112,000, perfect interior base LE for $4000. I was sad to see it go. BUT degrading health requires more wintery driving and AWD will be safer.


Applications:

Toyota RAV4 (ASA33/38), 181 PS (133 kW; 179 hp)@6000, 233 N⋅m (172 lbf⋅ft)@4000
Toyota Camry ASV40 (Base & LE), 171 PS (126 kW; 169 hp)@6000, 226 N⋅m (167 lbf⋅ft)@4100
Toyota Camry ASV40 (SE and worldwide) 181 PS (133 kW; 179 hp)@6000, 233 N⋅m (172 lbf⋅ft)@4100
Toyota Camry ASV50, 180 PS (132 kW; 178 hp)@6000, 233 N⋅m (172 lbf⋅ft)@4100
Scion tC (AGT20), 180 hp (130 kW), 173 lb⋅ft (235 N⋅m)
Toyota Alphard (AH30)
Lexus ES250 (XV60)


2AR-FE[edit]
2AR-FE
Overview
Manufacturer Toyota
Layout
Displacement 2,494 cc (152.2 cu in)
Cylinder bore 90 mm (3.543 in)
Piston stroke 98 mm (3.858 in)
Cylinder block alloy alloy
Cylinder head alloy alloy
Valvetrain DOHC
Compression ratio 10.4
Combustion
Fuel system EFI
Fuel type petrol (gasoline)
Output
Power output 169–180 bhp (126–134 kW)
Torque output 167–173 lb⋅ft (226–235 N⋅m)
A 2.5 L version of the AR family, first released in the RAV4 in the U.S. and Canada in 2008.[3] This engine also replaced the 2AZ-FE in the U.S. and Canada Camry in early 2009, giving 11% better fuel economy.[4] The engine service mass is 324 lb (147 kg) that includes the oil and coolant fully filled. The engine is used in the U.S., Australia,[5] New Zealand,[6] China, Taiwan, Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand[7] and Indonesia.

You would have to be unlucky to get a unreliable Toyota.
They have been showing the world how to make reliable cars for 60+ years...and teaching the world how to ensure quality components throughout the manufacturing industries.
I have owned Toyotas (RAV4, Yaris,) and many other makes, but my current favorite is Mitsubishi. All the reliability of Japanese build , but better value than the more popular Toyotas
Infact, if you look back through this thread, the most common theme is Japanese designed/made cars being recommended !.....not many Euroboxes...VW, Citroen, Ford, Fiat, etc etc !!

Buying:
2019 Honda Fit Hatchback LX
Exterior Color: Aegean Blue
CVT is Continuously Variable Transmission

Because of the flood in Honda Mexico factory. No blue fits for sale near me. Wife likes to go on trips. Here we go. Renting a car. One day trip. Sleep in a Airbnb. Buy car and drive home the next day.

Salesman is not good at emailing. Think I should have a contract or something in writing? I don't. Paid a $2000 deposit by emailing credit card information. Wonder if sales guy is having fun buying toys on Amazon with my card. I got no receipt. Defiantly not the way to sell a $2 toy car or a $18,000 car.

Copy this from MY email.
Sale price $17,634.00
doc fee $250.00
title $33.50
60 month loan for $15,917.50
4.64% interest
$297.76 per month

Sales guy said I need NO insurance? Different states might be different, but in NY you need insurance to drive a car. Dealer said he will give me temporary tags. Sales guy said I have 30 days to get insurance. He said to bring insurance card for the car I am driving now. I would not loan anyone money to buy a car, with the car as collateral if the car had no insurance.

Ive been doing a bit more research and have been reading up about all the issues with GDI and carbon deposits on intake valves.

For Citroen and Skoda this means the bigger HP engines are out, including all versions with automatic. Kind of a bummer :?

I tried the Honda Jazz (as the fit is called here), found the driving position to cramped for me (I am 1m92, 6ft4). With this respect also the Suzuki is a bit small, but real life driving position (sitting to attention) I found is different from showroom test sitting (when for some reason I set the seats for 'lounging'). Both Skoda and Citroen are very good for tall people...

Test drive in Citroen 2 days from now...

Occasionally Toyota puts out some real garbage. You cannot trust them to do everything right.

Toyota Matrix 1.8L manual transmissions fail around 75k miles.
The 2.2L engine was famous for engine sludge.
The 2.4L engine that came after that had engine sludge issues and oil burning / consumption issues for over a decade, which got worse near the end of their run in 2012. Over a million cars are affected and Toyota is being shrimpy about fixing them.
First and second generation rav4's had exploding manual transmissions - 5th gear goes out after 150k.
The high revving 1.8L motors in the 2000's would start consuming oil like mad and died very young.
Mid to late 2000's 4runners had frames that would disintegrate in less than a decade. ( Wife's mom had one of those and Toyota did not cover it; the car is a total loss )
Scions and other Toyotas had massive paint quality issues in the 2000's - not sure if this is still going on.

Wife's rav4 with the 2.0 is a nice car but at 140,000 miles it's blowing oil out the rings already and started doing that at 90k. Transmission still going strong because we're nice to it.