New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Ron Paul's Blimp said:
My first impression is holy hell it's even louder than I feared it would be after reading this thread. Even in assist level 1, even lightly pedaling, it sounds like an RC car. Really disappointing and it might be a bit of a deal-breaker if the opensource firmware doesn't help somehow. Unfortunately I don't know what else I'd use since I don't know of any other torque-sensing mid-drives in its weight class that don't require a custom frame. Huge bummer.
Click to expand...

Having come from a BBS01B which was almost silent the TSDZ2 is a little on the nose in the noise department.

Yes they are loud. There are people claiming they have quiet copies, but I have yet to see/hear evidence on youtube ;)

I plan to have a really good go at quieting mine next month once I have moved. I haven't pulled apart yet other than the chain side where I added some more grease to the secondary reduction with no real change.

On the plus side the opensource firmware is amazing, the new color screen coming and the torque sensor means I will never go back. I have ridden a bosch mid drive and it is quite noisy too. Maybe the Bafangs are the outlier?

Mine is in a Cargo bike ... though I just spotted a German Cargo bike with integrated Steps mid drive, hydraulic disks, suspension, carbon belt drive and electric infinitely variable rear hub ... for the price of a small car :) Not sure the wife will go for it but far superior tech to mine

Cheers
 
Ron Paul's Blimp said:
Rydon said:
Some motors are louder than others. The open source firmware in my experience is nominally quieter and more efficient.
Click to expand...

I wish I knew what the variable was so I could try to make mine quieter. I'm going to need a lot more than a nominal improvement to get it down to what I'd like (I'm used to a BBS02, which is insanely quieter than this).

The stock firmware is locked into a maximum wattage and none of the stock displays can change it. You can reprogram it to different max watt levels but that is as hard as doing the opensource and the opensource firmware is much better. There is work being done on the open source thread by Marcoq to allow you to use the VLCD6 display with the opensource firmware.
Click to expand...

Supposedly the VLCD6 can change the max power, but I haven't been able to get the buttons pressed in the right way. I have an LCD3 and flashed it already and made the connector to flash the controller, I just wanted to get a few miles in with everything stock first to have a baseline for comparison. Yeah, I'm the guy in the other thread who's planning to try to bring marcoq's vlcd6 work into casainho's tree.
Click to expand...

You are spoiled by your Bafang mid-drive. :) They are the quietest out there. Bosch, Yamaha, and Brose are all noisy by comparison.

The VLCD5 has a setup screen for amps. It doesn't actually do anything. People have wasted more time screwing around with it and trying to feel a difference. Shame on TongSheng. I assume the VLCD6 is the same. If you get it in the Power Select mode I doubt it actually does anything.
 
mctubster said:
Yes they are loud. There are people claiming they have quiet copies, but I have yet to see/hear evidence on youtube ;)

I plan to have a really good go at quieting mine next month once I have moved. I haven't pulled apart yet other than the chain side where I added some more grease to the secondary reduction with no real change.
Click to expand...

Nice .. I hope you'll keep track of your progress and post a lot about it.

Mine is in a Cargo bike ... though I just spotted a German Cargo bike with integrated Steps mid drive, hydraulic disks, suspension, carbon belt drive and electric infinitely variable rear hub ... for the price of a small car :) Not sure the wife will go for it but far superior tech to mine

Cheers
Click to expand...

:) I kind of enjoy the DIY project aspect of it. It's too bad the mid-drive market seems to be moving away from conversion kits and towards custom frames.

Rydon said:
You are spoiled by your Bafang mid-drive. :) They are the quietest out there. Bosch, Yamaha, and Brose are all noisy by comparison.
Click to expand...

Oh interesting. I assumed the big-name motors were similarly quiet. I wish Tongsheng would reverse engineer whatever Bafang did to get that noise level. It's just not even close.

The VLCD5 has a setup screen for amps. It doesn't actually do anything. People have wasted more time screwing around with it and trying to feel a difference. Shame on TongSheng. I assume the VLCD6 is the same. If you get it in the Power Select mode I doubt it actually does anything.
Click to expand...

Ah thanks for saving me the hassle of messing with it any more.
 
The VLCD5 has a setup screen for amps. It doesn't actually do anything. People have wasted more time screwing around with it and trying to feel a difference. Shame on TongSheng. I assume the VLCD6 is the same. If you get it in the Power Select mode I doubt it actually does anything.
Click to expand...

No, it work .. i m using a 14A setting and you can see that all levels are decrement from the max current .

Max current is 18 A , it do nothing if you select more than 18A but it work if you decrement A .

I was using a 13/14A set up because stock firmware doesn t implemented a current ramp and at lvl2 and more it was too strong and dangerous in mountain biking ( specialy trial using ) .

My 2 bike are frame modified and 26"" full suspended 32T 11/40, other one is 27.5 boost and 36T 11/40 for friend use .

I just move my 2 bike to open source firmware, one with VLCD5 and marcoq set up and now it s exact that now with this firmware setup screen for amp do nothing, second with open firmware and LCD3 and curent limit could be decrement from display .

my report are on the other tread .
 
Ron Paul's Blimp said:
Yeah, I'm the guy in the other thread who's planning to try to bring marcoq's vlcd6 work into casainho's tree.
Click to expand...

I'm with you in this task!! :thumb:
Otherwise I feel we are missing a train...
 
Ron Paul's Blimp said:
My first impression is holy hell it's even louder than I feared it would be after reading this thread.
Click to expand...

Do a 100 miles or so and the motor quietens down somewhat and your ear gets used to it. What used to be a bit of noisy motor now seems to be pretty normal. No it will never get as quiet as the Bafung series as they are even quieter than the Bosch and Yamaha units I have ridden.
 
The newer version of the motor with the helical gear is a good bit quieter than the older one with the straight cut gear. But neither are as quite as a Bafang. However, they perform so much better that a Bafang once you install the open source firmware. My Bafang bbs01 is going up for sale.
 
Has anyone tried that 100mm or 120mm adapter axle from futurebike in Italy. I’m interesting in building a fat cargo bike but it will need the longer version of the pedal axle.
 
Bartman said:
Has anyone tried that 100mm or 120mm adapter axle from futurebike in Italy. I’m interesting in building a fat cargo bike but it will need the longer version of the pedal axle.
Click to expand...

I am running a 100mm kit on my fatbike (non-cargo). It was easy to install and works as expected! :)
 
I’m running a 120mm kit on a 100mm fatbike, its really a nice machine.
 
Wahoo! Finally made it to the end of the topic! A long but very interesting read that is.

Thanks to all of the people who have taken the time to share their experiences and a huge and respectful thanks to @casainho for his work.

I have ordered a 36v version of the motor for testing purposes that will arrive in a few weeks.
I will test it at it's default state first and then I will play around with the unit to see what can be done to make it better, more reliable, more silent, etc.

Of course I will share my experience over here ;)
 
elem said:
The VLCD5 has a setup screen for amps. It doesn't actually do anything. People have wasted more time screwing around with it and trying to feel a difference. Shame on TongSheng. I assume the VLCD6 is the same. If you get it in the Power Select mode I doubt it actually does anything.
Click to expand...

No, it work .. i m using a 14A setting and you can see that all levels are decrement from the max current .

Max current is 18 A , it do nothing if you select more than 18A but it work if you decrement A .

I was using a 13/14A set up because stock firmware doesn t implemented a current ramp and at lvl2 and more it was too strong and dangerous in mountain biking ( specialy trial using ) .

My 2 bike are frame modified and 26"" full suspended 32T 11/40, other one is 27.5 boost and 36T 11/40 for friend use .

I just move my 2 bike to open source firmware, one with VLCD5 and marcoq set up and now it s exact that now with this firmware setup screen for amp do nothing, second with open firmware and LCD3 and curent limit could be decrement from display .

my report are on the other tread .
Click to expand...

Interesting. Must have something to do with the firmware from TongSheng. We have tried it on a number of motors and it did not work. Also, many other users reported this earlier in this thread. Playing with amps from the VLCD5 did not work. TongSheng does lock out certain features on different versions and releases of their motors so I believe you when you say it worked for you.
 
I set up a 52v 750w tonsheng today with a 52v 13ah u.p.p. battery.. only turns on for a split second then turns off. What could I be doing wrong??
 
Rvs4 said:
I set up a 52v 750w tonsheng today with a 52v 13ah u.p.p. battery.. only turns on for a split second then turns off. What could I be doing wrong??
Click to expand...
I had the same problem. 52V battery and 52V tsdz2.

It turned out that even though the motor was marked 52V it had 48V firmware installed. Apparently a batch left the factory that way, mine wasn't the only one.

I fixed it by flashing 52V firmware. Merely going into the firmware and editing voltage limits did not work. After the firmware flash it works perfectly.

The way to check this is to discharge the battery until the voltage is below 54.6V (full charge voltage for 48v battery) if your system then works this is your problem.

Eco-ebike.com has the files, instructions, and a video.
 
Hi all! That was a long read :)

I’m planning to install a tsdz2 on my cargo bike, but i have two worries that you might be able to help me with:

1. Bottom bracket play: I will need to apply a 5mm spacer to compensate for the chainstay and there seems to be a 0.5mm play between the motor axis and the inner diameter of the bb.
I’m worried that the force and weight of the bike could cause a wobble due to the axis shifting in the bb, no matter how hard you tension the main ring.

Does anyone have that experience? Or am I unnecessarily worried?

2. Waterproofing/rust issues: the bike is always parked outside, so it will inevitably get wet from time to time. Are there any issues to be expected? Is the motor, or the xh-18 display prone to rust and failure due to water?

I highly appreciate all your comments and experiences!

I’m very much looking forward to the build project :)
 
ReSa said:
Hi all! That was a long read :)

I’m planning to install a tsdz2 on my cargo bike, but i have two worries that you might be able to help me with:

1. Bottom bracket play: I will need to apply a 5mm spacer to compensate for the chainstay and there seems to be a 0.5mm play between the motor axis and the inner diameter of the bb.
I’m worried that the force and weight of the bike could cause a wobble due to the axis shifting in the bb, no matter how hard you tension the main ring.

Does anyone have that experience? Or am I unnecessarily worried?
Click to expand...

I had a 2mm gap in my cargo bike. I printed a PLA spacer to centre it. 0.5mm might be a bit thin to hang together though maybe ok. Since it is only under compression if at all it won't go anywhere etc

2. Waterproofing/rust issues: the bike is always parked outside, so it will inevitably get wet from time to time. Are there any issues to be expected? Is the motor, or the xh-18 display prone to rust and failure due to water?
Click to expand...

I would be concerned about this for the display and battery. I wonder about the buttons too if in a lot of rain. Plastic bag over the display?
 
ReSa said:
Hi all! That was a long read :)

I’m planning to install a tsdz2 on my cargo bike, but i have two worries that you might be able to help me with:

1. Bottom bracket play: I will need to apply a 5mm spacer to compensate for the chainstay and there seems to be a 0.5mm play between the motor axis and the inner diameter of the bb.
I’m worried that the force and weight of the bike could cause a wobble due to the axis shifting in the bb, no matter how hard you tension the main ring.

Does anyone have that experience? Or am I unnecessarily worried?

2. Waterproofing/rust issues: the bike is always parked outside, so it will inevitably get wet from time to time. Are there any issues to be expected? Is the motor, or the xh-18 display prone to rust and failure due to water?

I highly appreciate all your comments and experiences!

I’m very much looking forward to the build project :)
Click to expand...

I had the same gap between BB and the motor axle in one of the bikes, it's quite annoying as it feels loose and "soft" while pedaling.. I put a set of small wedges (cut from the ones you put in the window frames before you fit the glass if this can help) and the problem was gone, as reported the wedges works in compression therefore they are ok as long as they are stiff enough.

Regarding the bike outside.. it's definitely not a good idea for the bike itself and its moving parts, and also for the electric parts of the kit. Anyway if you remove the battery while parked remember to protect the contacts.. mine for examples are shaped in a way that a little pool is created when the battery is away and the water may stop there.
 
thanks for your input!

Very creative solution with the wedges, but I'm looking for a durable solution for a daily used, loaded cargo bike..., so DIY-ing with wedges seems like a sub-optimal situation...
The battery terminal will be placed in a closed off spot, so I'm not worried about the electrical part fortunately :)

Any other experiences?
 
ReSa said:
thanks for your input!

Very creative solution with the wedges, but I'm looking for a durable solution for a daily used, loaded cargo bike..., so DIY-ing with wedges seems like a sub-optimal situation...
The battery terminal will be placed in a closed off spot, so I'm not worried about the electrical part fortunately :)

Any other experiences?
Click to expand...

I think using wedges is a great idea, assuming they are made from nylon / plastic which would be very incompressible. The deluxe version would be a thin metal spacer. Here is one I bought to space my bottom bracket from 55mm to 54mm (so it is approx .5mm thick) to fit an eccentric bottom bracket

Shim_1mm.jpg
 
I had very little space to fill, my best option was a metal sheet like the one shown here above, but
1. or it perfect fits otherwise you just reduce the gap
2. I did not have it

I just had those wedges so I was in a kind of Apollo13 situation. :lol:
Wedges will find the perfect lock due to its shape (then you cut them to length), in addition they get more inside while tightening the big closure nut, so it solved my issue (they go inside by about 2-4 mm).
 
--- as an aside ---- I've just tried to opt in for a 48V 750w TSDZ2 and no-one on Aliexpress seems to list it today. I only reviewed the options three days ago and there were plenty of sellers. Can anyone else bear witness to this? I'm in the UK.

I was going to order from recycles-ebike.com but they've not replied to a query email I sent them a week ago.

Any thoughts anyone?
 
docdelete said:
--- as an aside ---- I've just tried to opt in for a 48V 750w TSDZ2 and no-one on Aliexpress seems to list it today. I only reviewed the options three days ago and there were plenty of sellers. Can anyone else bear witness to this? I'm in the UK.

I was going to order from recycles-ebike.com but they've not replied to a query email I sent them a week ago.

Any thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

As long as you're still in the EU (hurry...) you can get one at PSW Power: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-4c-gj4p
 
docdelete, see here:

https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch

And also the opensource firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki

Thread here: https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818
 
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