Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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cr0m08   100 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by cr0m08 » Jan 15 2019 1:28am

found this on the Sabvoton controller page for shunt wiring, (and grin techs CA accessory page) hope it helps. According to the Sab pdf, blue is on battery side and white on controller side.
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CA Wiring Instruction.pdf
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Shunt_Raw- wiring.jpg
Shunt_Raw- wiring.jpg (85.2 KiB) Viewed 1182 times
2015 Nukeproof Pulse, 3220/HV160 @12S V1.5, 26x2.8" Nextie 50mm wheel set
2006 KeeWee Cromo Eight, 3210/HV80 @12S V1.5, 24x3" wheel set.
1998 Marin B17, Mac 10T @18S in 19" Kris Holme Trials rims, 19x2.5" wheel set (still to finish)
part build Basman 346, QS205 hub motor @12S in 24x3" wheel set. (still to finish)

Ham   1 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Ham » Jan 15 2019 4:53am

Very kind of you. Thank you! :)
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Tom on 101   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Tom on 101 » Jan 15 2019 2:51pm

Hello CA users,

I have a PAS profile set up and running. It is responsive both for the start of peddling and the motor shuts off fine after peddling is stopped, all very good. But my configuration has a problem which is if the rider peddles backwards the motor kicks in as if peddling forward. I've looked through the PAS settings and PDF guide but am unable to find a solution. If someone could take a look at my profile attached, let me know where I might have gone wrong, that would be a big help. Thank you, Tom

Update 1: I did find this on the Grin website which may be the issue but not sure how to tell(program) the CA I have this variant as I did try the 2-wire setting on the PAS Signal Type in the CA Set up Utility but that made the motor stutter when peddling forward or backward;

"There is a variant to this 1-wire sensor that pulses both with forwards and reverse rotation, but the pulse width changes between the two. For instance, forwards rotation might have a long HIGH state, and a short LOW state, while this is inverted when pedaling backwards. The control system must be programmed to discern based on relative pulse width if it is the forwards or reverse pedal direction and only respond accordingly. It also requires the detection of several pulses before it can positively identify forwards or reverse direction, so normally there would be a slightly longer delay before PAS power kicked in."
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PAS.600watts.1.1.hex.txt
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rktv   1 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rktv » Jan 23 2019 6:13am

Hello !

I have a problem with my CA when I try to use the 5V from Aux for PAS or 3 way switch or anything else, it shuts down :


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Killer-B   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Killer-B » Jan 23 2019 11:51am

rktv wrote:
Jan 23 2019 6:13am
Hello !

I have a problem with my CA when I try to use the 5V from Aux for PAS or 3 way switch or anything else, it shuts down :

looks to me like you have a wire flipped and the ca is blipping because its shorted
everyday commuter is a khs alite 500 with Grin thru axle front hub, phaserunner, battery is 20s5p x2
trail bike is a Norco with qs 205 5t with 120 amp Kelly controller 20s5p
first build rear 1000w Giant with grin 40 amp and 14s8s
newest is custom frame qs205 5t in moto rim and shiko d/p with Kelly 120amp and 20p5s +20s5p

rktv   1 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rktv » Jan 23 2019 1:54pm

Killer-B wrote:
Jan 23 2019 11:51am
rktv wrote:
Jan 23 2019 6:13am
Hello !

I have a problem with my CA when I try to use the 5V from Aux for PAS or 3 way switch or anything else, it shuts down :

looks to me like you have a wire flipped and the ca is blipping because its shorted
You mean a wire flipped from CA to Aux connector ? I have to open my CA and check inside ?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Jan 23 2019 2:24pm

First, what voltage is your battery pack?

Second, are you using a torque sensor like the THUN that is powered from the 10v line off the CA's PAS connector?

If the battery is high enough voltage, and the second is true, then see here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 25#p623114
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 35#p694530

If it's neither of the above, then:

IF you have a voltmeter, measure the voltage and polarity of the 10v, 5v and ground contacts coming from the CA on each connector, and compare them to the connector pinout chart here:
https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-analyst-3.html
CA3_Pinouts_2017.jpg
CA3_Pinouts_2017.jpg (71.83 KiB) Viewed 1047 times
If they are all correct, then the problem is likely the wiring of one of the items being attached.

madnut   100 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » Jan 23 2019 2:43pm

cr0m08 wrote:
Jan 15 2019 1:28am
found this on the Sabvoton controller page for shunt wiring, (and grin techs CA accessory page) hope it helps. According to the Sab pdf, blue is on battery side and white on controller side.
OMG, this made me realize i did mine wrong and had the groud on the battery side instead of controller.

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cr0m08   100 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by cr0m08 » Jan 23 2019 7:17pm

I don't know for sure, but I would think the ground connection wouldn't matter that much. Except to say that if all ground connections are common "before" the shunt (on the controller side of shunt), then the measurement of current will include all sources of power drain? So in other words, even the current of the CA itself is being measured if connected as in the pic from the ebikes.ca site? Would that be right?
2015 Nukeproof Pulse, 3220/HV160 @12S V1.5, 26x2.8" Nextie 50mm wheel set
2006 KeeWee Cromo Eight, 3210/HV80 @12S V1.5, 24x3" wheel set.
1998 Marin B17, Mac 10T @18S in 19" Kris Holme Trials rims, 19x2.5" wheel set (still to finish)
part build Basman 346, QS205 hub motor @12S in 24x3" wheel set. (still to finish)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rktv » Jan 27 2019 2:55pm

Problem solved, I just bought the Grin PAS

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Scotty T » Feb 02 2019 11:38pm

G'day, still having a bit of trouble with surging on mine, it surges on PAS and when I hold down the throttle. Attached is my config, any ideas?
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CA3-12 Mongoose Settings.zip
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ebike11   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Feb 05 2019 9:56am

Hi guys
I was wondering if I could get some advice

I just installed my new controller which uses a Grin shunt and Cycle Analyst with Pass thru setting since its just a generic controller with no connector for the CA.
Just for comparisons sake, I connected the throttle directly to the controller and then connected the throttle as it was previously which is through the shunt/CA.

The speed difference is quite noticable with the motor turning faster when using the throttle that is connected directly to the controller.

Would this be a CA setting issue? Throttle setting?

Thanks!

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Feb 05 2019 1:17pm

You should go to setup and throttle settings. When you turn the throttle you will see the actual voltage output. Check if the max output is what your controller expects to see as max throttle input voltage.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Feb 05 2019 1:40pm

izeman wrote:
Feb 05 2019 1:17pm
You should go to setup and throttle settings. When you turn the throttle you will see the actual voltage output. Check if the max output is what your controller expects to see as max throttle input voltage.
Do you mean after turning the throttle to see the actual voltage, I should set the max. input voltage to the same voltage? Thx for the reply!

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Feb 06 2019 5:05pm

If you look at the Unofficial User Guide from Teklektik,
viewtopic.php?p=571345#p571345
there is a section in it on configuring throttle input and output to match your system.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Feb 06 2019 5:38pm

I don't know if these are bugs, or simply behavior I don't like, but I'll post them here, along with the test setup file used. I'm using firmware 3.13b2, and Setup Utility 1.54.

I"m using High Range mode, because I have a 0.5mohm shunt, so can't use Low Range in operation. I have not yet tested the things below in Low Range, but can do so if necessary, for stationary testing.

I'm using three presets, which would normally be identical except 1 would have a 5mph speed limit, 2 would have a 10mph limit, and 3 would be 20mph.


The first "behavior" is:

The CA setup utility shows 500kw power limit, but Setup on CA itself shows 0.00kw, and will not accept any changes to it from the onboard setup. (Meaning, I can change it to 1kw, and it reverts to 0kw, etc. ) Because it doesn't display any changes, I don't know if it is actually changing it and just not displaying it, but I think it is not changing it at all, because if I cahnge it, then read the setup from teh CA in the Setup Utility, the results indicate it's still at the default 500kw.


CA Setup Utility shows the OEM settings are correctly still at default 500.00 mi/hr 500kw 999.9a so there should effectively be nothing to cause that.


The second "behavior" seems a little more complicated, so:

For the testing below, I set all three presets to the max above (500.00 mi/hr) for Max Speed Limit, and the Max No-Pedal Speed is set as high as possible, to 255 mi/hr. Preset 1 is for power throttle, 2 current throttle, and 3 speed throttle, otherwise identical, and switch between them as noted.



Slow ramp up using current-mode throttle, and when switching from that mode to speed or power throttle:


All throttle output ramps are 99.00v/second, but it still takes at least 8 seconds for throttle output voltage to ramp up to max, with current throttle mode, even though the input throttle tracks the actual throttle correctly. NO limit flags are present, except *after* I let go of the throttle and the A flag appears for less than half a second, if I held throttle for more than a second or so from zero, which probably makes sense since it's set to current throttle (so not part of the "bug", but potentially important info?).



If I change to speed throttle from current throttle, then speed throttle takes the same 8 seconds, *unless* the motor has ever reached full speed, and then spun down (which takes more than 8 seconds, so probably has nothing to do with it), OR I wait about 8 seconds before applying throttle after changing to this preset. After that, throttle out tracks closely as expected. Current displayed on the throttle monitoring screen is 15A, and almost before my eyes can register that it changes to 21A then 17A, which almsot instantly drops to 3A, then 2A. Current limit is the max possible of 999A, which should never be reached, and there are no limit flags (except for the note below),


Power throtttle preset, if switched to from Current throttle preset, behaves the same as SPeed throttle, except that if I wait the 8 seconds, or let the throttle reach full value and then let go and wait for motor spin down to retry, then it takes about 1.5-2 seconds to go from zero to full throttle voltage.

If I change the order of presets so the middle on is Power throttle instead of Current throttle, then switching from Power throttle to Speed throttle lets Speed throttle work correctly the first time, no delay, no ramp up.


Third "behavior":

Additionally, even though the bike is sitting still, and the speed sensor is on the unpowered nonspinning front wheel, the speed limit flag comes on occasionally while revving the throttle, when in speed throttle mode. t does not happen if i increase throttle slowly,, only if i "gun it" repeatedly. There is NO speed sensor on the motor wheel (it does not even have halls connected to the controller), and the external shunt only has it's blue and white wires connected to the CA, plus the black and red battery power wires. No other wires are connected. Only the throtttle wires are connected from controller to CA.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Marc S. » Feb 07 2019 5:47pm

@amberwolf
More than a year ago I've experienced this very slow throttle output of the CAv3 DPS as well. I've tried everything. It drove me crazy!
Only when I disconnected the speed sensor, throttle behavior was back to normal.

IIRC the reason was a defect speed sensor/broken speed sensor cable/connector. Rewired the CAv3 DPS to get the speed signal from the motor hall sensor and all runs fine since then.

Try disconnecting the speed sensor and see if it cures some of your problems.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Feb 07 2019 7:17pm

Since my wheel was completely stationary at the time, it should make zero difference. (and since there is no speed limit set, the speed shouldn't matter, either).

But my speed sensor works perfectly. It is wired directly to the CA PCB; it doesn't have any connectors.

If the problem only happens because the CA doesn't detect the speed increasing, then that's gotta be a bug, because it should be doing the same thing on Speed throttle or Power throttle, but it doesn't, *unless* it is switched to that mode from Current throttle.

And if it's doing it because the speed isn't increasing, it *should* be ramping up *faster* to try to get the speed to increase, shouldn't it?


(FWIW, I won't use the halls in a motor for a speed sensor because of the risk of completely destroying the CA (at least, killing the MCU) in the event of a short from a hall to battery power or a motor phase wire. My first CA3 was destroyed this way when the cable that comes out of the external shunt had a short between the speed sensor wire and battery positive. The risk percentage is very low but the consequences are very bad, so they aren't worth it for me.)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Feb 11 2019 6:27am

amberwolf wrote:
Feb 06 2019 5:05pm
If you look at the Unofficial User Guide from Teklektik,
viewtopic.php?p=571345#p571345
there is a section in it on configuring throttle input and output to match your system.
Hi amberwolf, I was hoping i could get your advice.
Im not getting any throttle response when i twist the throttle. My CA v3 is in Pass thru mode with grin shunt.
The throttle icon on the main screen is blinking nonstop and its in the WOT position.
I went to the diagnostics screen and seen THR ERR on the top left side, "In" of the screen.
What setting would u recommend I change? I fiddled around but with no luck.
Thx in advance!

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Killer-B   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Killer-B » Feb 11 2019 6:39am

As always comb thru your wiring make sure all is connected right . Throttle in should e around .89 and 4.02 for the in.. throttle out should be around .95 an throttle max say 4.20. sometimes my indicator does the blip thing at wot. I twist throttle a few times and it goes normal..
I am sure AW can give better info for you tho .
everyday commuter is a khs alite 500 with Grin thru axle front hub, phaserunner, battery is 20s5p x2
trail bike is a Norco with qs 205 5t with 120 amp Kelly controller 20s5p
first build rear 1000w Giant with grin 40 amp and 14s8s
newest is custom frame qs205 5t in moto rim and shiko d/p with Kelly 120amp and 20p5s +20s5p

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Ham » Feb 11 2019 11:50am

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I am learning as I go here:

I have made my own shunt to replace the standard grin one I have been using and for the life of me can't get power to the CA3....

ESC powers up fine and I thought I had wired the shunt correctly but seemingly not so!

So far I have green wire from CA3 connector to the esc (talon 120) as per the original grin shunt, blue is connected to battery side of the shunt and black and white to the esc side. I have run the red wire direct to the main positive cable as per the user guide but still am not seeing where I am going wrong.

When I plug the old shunt set up back in it powers the ca3 fine.

I am either missing something with the wiring or I have a crap connection somewhere (if someone could tell me what the ca3 connector plug style is I can grab a new one and see if that solves the problem?)

Thanks in advance
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Feb 11 2019 2:07pm

Only blue and white are connected each to one of the sides of the shunt.
Green is throttle, and black is ground.
Those are JST-SM plugs.

Screenshot from 2019-02-11 20-09-03.png
Screenshot from 2019-02-11 20-09-03.png (30.21 KiB) Viewed 620 times

Ham   1 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Ham » Feb 11 2019 4:36pm

izeman wrote:
Feb 11 2019 2:07pm
Only blue and white are connected each to one of the sides of the shunt.
Green is throttle, and black is ground.
Those are JST-SM plugs.


Screenshot from 2019-02-11 20-09-03.png
Thank you Izeman, for your help.

I am now confused as section 4.2.1.3 Installation with High Current External Shunt (Normal Mode) of the user guide seems to be the right set up for me to follow but shows the white as connected to the same side as the ground...
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Feb 11 2019 10:36pm

ebike11 wrote:
Feb 11 2019 6:27am
Im not getting any throttle response when i twist the throttle. My CA v3 is in Pass thru mode with grin shunt.
The throttle icon on the main screen is blinking nonstop and its in the WOT position.
Sounds like it's wired wrong, or defective. You should check the hardware itself of the throttle first, with a voltmeter.

If the throttle is working, then make sure you have stuff actually wired up correctly, hooked to the correct connectors on the CA.

Other than that, go to the link I gave, and follow the *complete* throttle setup directions in the UUG.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Feb 11 2019 10:39pm

Ham wrote:
Feb 11 2019 11:50am
I have run the red wire direct to the main positive cable as per the user guide but still am not seeing where I am going wrong.
If you did not also connect the black (ground) wire to the negative side of your battery, then there's not a complete circuit for power.

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