Scootabot

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
Ianhill   1 MW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Ianhill » Dec 04 2018 11:26am

Check out my razor e300 ultra thread in there I show SCS bars and clamp that's what all the stunt scooter riders prefer to abuse with backflips, the handle bars I got where chromo 4130 there's lots of titanuim oversized bars around that is an easy fit for a 1 1/8th steerer tube, they use SCS bars and clamp because there's no slit at the bottom of the bars for a crack to break out of.

The threadless headsets take seconds to swap out bearings plus come with cartridge bearings for extremely cheap follow the modern mountain bike that's what the scooter industry does pinch parts so they cheap.

My ultimate set up would be like i mentioned, a tapered titanuim head tube with internal integrated bearing cup link below, with a 1 1/8th bearing on top and a 1 1/4th bottom bearing and a fork with matching steerer tube, that way I can still use the stunt scooter selection of bars with an SCS clamp and a real rigid fork assembly that allows the fork to hug the frame.

http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/fram ... -long.html

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Dec 06 2018 9:38am

Good news -- bad news and lesson learned the good is fork mount hole is drilled the bad is its got 8/10mm of run-out at axel :roll:
So ill take it back, and suggest a brass / stainless insert and re-drill STRAIGHT.

Old lessen learned. when i ask how are you going to get it straight dont except ..arr dont worry for an answer talk it through, he's a good dude so im sure it will be all good.
Welds pics :D
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Dec 12 2018 5:11am

Here is a piece i can knock off the list - rear drive hub redrilled/tapped to m6 from m5 , i saw a online calc that stated 6xm5 in a 44mm bcd ,around 240nm so going to m6 gives me some piece of mind... On too the Next piece of the puzzle.
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Jan 08 2019 9:32am

So here is a thing im contemplating atm
i love the simplicity of a hub / silence / freewheeling ability, and ive found a big one 9/10kg has a 8 x 8'' rim.
the magnet width is 60mm not that big but still trying to get specs on stator diameter. im hoping that weight is windings ect.
This could have great potential /power.
My biggest hurdle and ive looked hard, is to get a tyre around 13/14'' the smallest ive found is 16''
So if you know of one please link :pancake:
Edit tried kart and mower tyres
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Pyon   10 µW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Pyon » Jan 28 2019 2:03pm

Hi Emoto, have you decided on your hub wheel yet? I was looking into hub wheel but could not find a decent ATV tyre to match it on 14/15inch (tyre size), so i gave up and went for 6" Kart wheels instead.

Looking forward the rest of your build progressing :)

Ianhill   1 MW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Ianhill » Jan 28 2019 9:09pm

Simple way to rate the hub is to look at the phase wires I'd say the hub in the picture will be happy around 40 battery amps maybe 60amp bursts with some trial tests, what type of power are you after do you have a controller in mind ?

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Jan 29 2019 10:24am

Pyon wrote:
Jan 28 2019 2:03pm
Hi Emoto, have you decided on your hub wheel yet? I was looking into hub wheel but could not find a decent ATV tyre to match it on 14/15inch (tyre size), so i gave up and went for 6" Kart wheels instead.

Looking forward the rest of your build progressing :)
YES finally decided on motor will post to confirm once ordered, its A big hub and powerful .
I have finally scraped the reduction belt idea as no good in sand, the hub will be virtually maintenance free / silent / freewheeling / uncomplicated regen ect
Its going to be heavy --dam heavy , but that weight is going to be about as low as you can get so im gambling on that besides its going to have at least 3+ times the torque of a 6'' hub :shock: and thats exciting and fueling me... :roll: wont need any future motor upgrades
.

Good question on tyre and this has been bothering me for quite some time, heaps of hours and i found a 15'' tyre.
Im waiting on a reply on weight, its from usa and they want 80 us for shipping witch bothers me .
There is a 15'' atv flat track tyre from Hoosier but there used on dirt and pos not durable on tarmac,

Ianhill thats what most suppliers quote on amps and yeah those phase wires are thin im getting thicker phases apparently.
But lets see what i get. Power ... lots!! :D

Pyon   10 µW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Pyon » Jan 29 2019 3:07pm

Emoto wrote:
Jan 29 2019 10:24am
Good question on tyre and this has been bothering me for quite some time, heaps of hours and i found a 15'' tyre.
Im waiting on a reply on weight, its from usa and they want 80 us for shipping witch bothers me .
There is a 15'' atv flat track tyre from Hoosier but there used on dirt and pos not durable on tarmac,
Is it going to be a 8inch hub? Would you be okay to share a link?

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Jan 30 2019 8:10am

Pyon if you mean motor im still working out details with motor suppler so ill post link when i get it, that way ill know if he's worth sharing or not . And yeah its a 8 inch rim.
So far he has been the best with details, some suppliers cant even answer questions , its been 2 weeks of emailing to narrow it down

On the tyre search dixie chopper they are 15x6x8 but getting that to Aus is 200 aus$. the tyre has a nice road profile .
Id get that over a hoosier 15'' as im guessing there. to soft.
And im gunna have to stretch the tyre to fit that fat rim... might just look hardcore if i manage it :D
But today ive also found a 15x6.5x8 turfmaster This could be the winner for me on road and sand.

And i forgot to say going to a hub Has allowed me to redesign to incorporate rear suspension and im dam happy about that. so my design has flipped again.

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Feb 13 2019 8:38am

Life is throwing its challenges at me atm like never before... and slowing the build add to that Chinese new year , but that's not going to stop me right!!
So a while back the engineer drilled the fork pivot of center well thats fixed now with a brass bush, and alloy front wheel spacer done.
All nice and straight Now
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Apr 15 2019 8:46am

The life challenges i spoke of before where i had to go to hospital for a procedure as the wanted to have a good look at me... i had to wait 7 months,But results where ALLLL GOOD :mrgreen: .
So im in a much better frame of mind to move forward on this scooter.
Might take a step back on motor size as the all up weight with tyre was was a dizzy 14kg :shock: , to ill pro go witha 6'' rim size motor.
So just doing final measurements on down tube and hope to cut that ect... Life is good......

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Apr 28 2019 10:02am

Here is a shot of my boss bearing idea small compact and dam strong ..no welding needed :) interference fit and secured with 8 m6 countersunk stainless steel socket head cap screws, removable to service the bearings.

More welding art from the guy ive finally found to be the best, after a lot of trial and error with different welders even though frustrating at the time .. sometimes youve got to earn finding the good one right!!

Ive redesigned the main frame to accommodate rear suspension, [ so cut off the rear no suspension arms ] that's one of the bonus of having a hub motor easier to achieve.
Im also going to cut out a 45 deg on the front taking out the front welds as my welder said they were cold with no penetration = weak , i may as well as the extra welding will cost only a little more, dont want the front end coming off do we :roll: and at the same time it will improve the looks a bit.
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Jun 13 2019 9:15am

Front corners cut off getting rid of the weak welds ..looks better and stronger to boot.
After re cutting front down tube [ fork rake ] i hand filed mating surface so the fork/ wheel is perrrfectly aligned and i will hold it in place while welder tacks it.This is the most critical part now.
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Jun 30 2019 8:55am

Down tube done, The welder excelled on these welds :mrgreen: i call him ''the bot'' now.
Front axle perfectly inline and a good bit of rake, Thats one of the most critical parts to this frame , onto the next part....
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Aug 22 2019 6:04am

My motor finally landed its a 8 inch rim 11kg with tyre , the seller was super vague on magnet height ect... so i went with my gut feeling and was right its 50mm stator width :D : with a 147 diametre :mrgreen: should have loads of tourque.

But the magnets and stator arnt aligned [ 10mm ] im working it out atm .. its pos they have inserted stator wrong way around :roll:
Hope this is so ..im experementing on a novel way to remove and isert stator without marking mags /stator..
stay tuned.
Heres my cover puller with what i had lying around.
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Ianhill   1 MW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Ianhill » Aug 22 2019 12:33pm

Take a side cover off put a nut on the end of the axle on the opposite side not to damage threads and push down on the outer ring separating it from stator, Have a few looks at some hub motor disassembly videos on youtube, it's easy enough just don't be scared and give it a good whack down on the axle holding the magnet ring and push through with your body weight and they will separate don't try and pull them apart with force your back will pop before you overcome the magnets it needs to be a quick blow.

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Aug 22 2019 1:23pm

Seen that method and variations not a fan as its possible to damage end windings and scrape magnets ect ..... The pic was getting first cover off...
Ill show my method For anyone interested as soon as i tested it, for removal and reinsertion of stator without risk of damage.

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Ianhill » Aug 22 2019 7:58pm

When the end cover is removed the magnets are then in contact with the stator, I tried to wind a mxus 3k out of a fried motor and the stator had a tendency to lock to the side and as I wound it rubbed a little the motor is still in use no I'll effect but like yourself is rather not damage them but with out a very strong jig and effort it's a difficult task to pull away the magnetic strength slowly overcome it.

The dualtron hub I ordered I took apart with the method I mentioned and one quick blow boom straight apart no hastle or damage I done my work conformal coated both magnet and stator cured with if light give them a week to gas out and harden off then assembled, that's the hard bit I've used a plastic bag and slowly peeled it out to keep them striking eachother directly it seems to work.

Best of luck please share your trials, head scratching and self torture lol.

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Aug 24 2019 8:34am

Ive seen all sorts of butchery removing stators like That.. even from cowboy manufacturers .. then using a risky non controlled / violent Method to reinstall stator is entertainment [ watch those fingers :shock: ] anyway.....enough said and back to build.

For the sake of anyone doing this for the first time [ or looking for a alternative] and put off because of the risks,i thought id try and share a novel idea i had . so here is my info share.

I have two words ''Threaded rod'' screw it into the m5 disc rotor bolt pattern[ go as far as you can if alloy ] and push against the axle on that side.

On the other side go through the cover and again thread into the motor cover mount holes , put a nut either side of cover .
And :bolt: urecka :bolt: full controll to the mm, worked super well for me was stable and controlled.

I also inserted some plastic shims between magnets and stator to reduce/stop scraping. i used a milk bottle :D .
One day im going to make a nice alloy plate puller but This was a cheap what i had lying around method... i hope this works for you.

Edit My covers were siliconed on well by manufacturer, This method made short work of that problem , i used all six rods on disc side not 2 as in pic.
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Aug 29 2019 8:33am

As posted earlier concerning the 10mm misalignment of stator to magnets, i also had a axel droupout offsett.
Looks like my hunch was right , after reinstalling stator 180 deg ive now got a very good stator magnet alignment and a centred axel.

Quite shocking the manufacturer couldnt even assemble there motor right.
My head was spinning trying to figure out what they had done at first then contemplating the possible fixes i might have had to do ...one of which was magnet reinstall.
So im real happy to have solved that one, :mrgreen:
Saved me a heap of time and the best part is im now free to move on to and design the next stage.

Motor will need some decent bearings and new phase wires and a temp sensor .
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Scootabot

Post by Emoto » Oct 15 2019 5:43am

Received my tyre for the hub , looks good should fit the bill, as with every custom build there is always a bit of anx with ordering parts online, but this will give me the suspension travel i want as its only 12.5 '' od much better than the original 15'' tyre that came with the hub , the extra clearance will allow a lower deck height which will be nicer for starts and stops.
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