A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
Post Reply
User avatar
thunderheart   100 W

100 W
Posts: 211
Joined: Oct 08 2017 10:01am
Location: Armenia

A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by thunderheart » Mar 26 2018 3:22pm

Hi guys! I've got 4 ANR26650s - 2 of each grade and tested a pair by discharging at 0.5A (0.2C), 5A, 10A and 20A discharge rates. Then i tested the second pair at 20A and compared all 4 cells.

The cells were bought from Queen Battery. The first pair was bought 4 months ago and the second - a month ago.

As always, I've tested with ZKETECH EBC-A20 and a self-made battery holder. It's a PC-connected battery tester supporting 4-wire measuring and discharging at up to 20A.
Image

I upgraded my holder by replacing the steel pads with pure copper ones (20x20x0.3mm)
Image

I've followed all the prescriptions of the IEC61960-2003 standard concerning battery's capacity measurement. Before each discharging cycle each battery was charged at standard current (2.5A) mentioned in the datasheet to 3.6V (cut-off at 0.1A, which is the lowest supported by EBC-A20). Before each discharging or charging i've held a 1-1.5hrs pause. The environment temperature was 20-25°C (23-25°C to be honest).

Discharge cut-off voltage is 2.0V for these batteries.

The Grade A cell has more information on its wrapper than the Grade B one which only is marked "ANR26650"
Image

and the Grade B's negative pole has no stripes around the metal
Image

The positive poles are identical
Image

The Grade A's results:
Image

The Grade B's results:
Image

Surprisingly enough, the Grade B cell appears to be slightly better than the Grade A one. So let's compare 2 Grade A cells with 2 Grade Bs at 20A to see if that's a rule or exception
Image

It seems that both of Grade Bs are better than the more expensive Grade As. Two pairs are not enough to conclude a rule, but at least we can see that the Bs are not worse than As, if not better. Maybe they have reduced cycle life or they are worse at higher discharge rates - i don't know and i have no way to check that. The maximum discharge current i can apply is 20A which i did. I hope this test was useful for ES members :wink:

The video version of this review:


P.S. this is my YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/thunderheartreviews It will be highly appreciated if you subscribe:) I need to reach 1000 subscribers to activate monetization and i need your support guys!
Yinlong LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests: https://youtu.be/eAUYbSDEy6I
Toshiba SCiB LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests:https://youtu.be/XsrRDZxEFQE

LG M50 vs Samsung 48G:https://youtu.be/KGJDogOG4zw
LiFePO4: QB26650 2500mAh 50A vs A123 ANR26650M1B: https://youtu.be/GOSkte11lRc

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10376
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by Hillhater » Mar 26 2018 4:36pm

From your results , there looks to be approx a 10-15% difference in the IR between the A and B cells (A being lower).
Maybe that is one of their criteria for grading cells. .?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
thunderheart   100 W

100 W
Posts: 211
Joined: Oct 08 2017 10:01am
Location: Armenia

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by thunderheart » Mar 26 2018 5:49pm

You mean they are ranging Grade B higher than Grade A? Maybe... But it seems kinda strange to me...
Yinlong LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests: https://youtu.be/eAUYbSDEy6I
Toshiba SCiB LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests:https://youtu.be/XsrRDZxEFQE

LG M50 vs Samsung 48G:https://youtu.be/KGJDogOG4zw
LiFePO4: QB26650 2500mAh 50A vs A123 ANR26650M1B: https://youtu.be/GOSkte11lRc

Pota   100 W

100 W
Posts: 140
Joined: May 15 2017 8:27am

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by Pota » Mar 26 2018 6:14pm

Isent it so that the 26650M1B is the more expensive?
Aint the grade A actualy the M1B, with more info?

User avatar
thunderheart   100 W

100 W
Posts: 211
Joined: Oct 08 2017 10:01am
Location: Armenia

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by thunderheart » Mar 26 2018 6:24pm

Yes, it is.
The Grade A (M1B) costs US$5.6 and the Grade B - US$4.6
Yinlong LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests: https://youtu.be/eAUYbSDEy6I
Toshiba SCiB LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests:https://youtu.be/XsrRDZxEFQE

LG M50 vs Samsung 48G:https://youtu.be/KGJDogOG4zw
LiFePO4: QB26650 2500mAh 50A vs A123 ANR26650M1B: https://youtu.be/GOSkte11lRc

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10376
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by Hillhater » Mar 26 2018 6:27pm

thunderheart wrote:
Mar 26 2018 5:49pm
You mean they are ranging Grade B higher than Grade A? Maybe... But it seems kinda strange to me...
No. The opposite. A grade has a lower IR than the B grade.
Its only marginal 0.0175 Ohm for A grade, vs 0.020 Ohm for the B grade (All appprox figs)
So the A grade is a better cell in respect to IR.
But there may well be other factors in the grading classification.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
thunderheart   100 W

100 W
Posts: 211
Joined: Oct 08 2017 10:01am
Location: Armenia

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by thunderheart » Mar 26 2018 6:35pm

Hillhater wrote:
Mar 26 2018 6:27pm
But there may well be other factors in the grading classification.
Maybe... Googling was useless so all i can is just suggest
Yinlong LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests: https://youtu.be/eAUYbSDEy6I
Toshiba SCiB LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests:https://youtu.be/XsrRDZxEFQE

LG M50 vs Samsung 48G:https://youtu.be/KGJDogOG4zw
LiFePO4: QB26650 2500mAh 50A vs A123 ANR26650M1B: https://youtu.be/GOSkte11lRc

Pota   100 W

100 W
Posts: 140
Joined: May 15 2017 8:27am

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by Pota » Mar 26 2018 6:37pm

Isent M1B like 2500mah and M1A like 2300MAH?

Hillhater   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10376
Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by Hillhater » Mar 26 2018 7:31pm

Pota wrote:
Mar 26 2018 6:37pm
Isent M1B like 2500mah and M1A like 2300MAH?
Both cells a M1B models.....but different grades of quality .
Look at the output graphs in the first post, ..
Both output 2500 mAh capacity.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

User avatar
liveforphysics   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14134
Joined: Oct 29 2008 1:48am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 26 2018 7:34pm

B grade cells sometimes are slightly higher than expected capacity. Sometimes slightly lower. Most often cells are B grade because something happened that caused a higher than normal self-discharge internal leakage current, which often means they will micro gas inside until premature failure.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

Pota   100 W

100 W
Posts: 140
Joined: May 15 2017 8:27am

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by Pota » Mar 27 2018 8:24am

Im buying a123 anr26650m1b. Grade A.
They say these are the one original.
Is it fake or not?
Attachments
Screenshot_20180316-152728_Alibabacom.jpg
Screenshot_20180316-152728_Alibabacom.jpg (59.76 KiB) Viewed 1305 times
Screenshot_20180327-152349_Alibabacom.jpg
Screenshot_20180327-152349_Alibabacom.jpg (120.08 KiB) Viewed 1305 times

User avatar
thunderheart   100 W

100 W
Posts: 211
Joined: Oct 08 2017 10:01am
Location: Armenia

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by thunderheart » Mar 27 2018 12:45pm

Hmmm.... All i can say is that their wrapping differs from my Grade A's
Yinlong LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests: https://youtu.be/eAUYbSDEy6I
Toshiba SCiB LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests:https://youtu.be/XsrRDZxEFQE

LG M50 vs Samsung 48G:https://youtu.be/KGJDogOG4zw
LiFePO4: QB26650 2500mAh 50A vs A123 ANR26650M1B: https://youtu.be/GOSkte11lRc

User avatar
SamRich   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Jan 16 2014 9:29am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by SamRich » Feb 01 2019 3:48pm

Thanks making those measurements and sharing the results!
Does anyone know what is that opening/hole on the top? A vent?

User avatar
thunderheart   100 W

100 W
Posts: 211
Joined: Oct 08 2017 10:01am
Location: Armenia

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by thunderheart » Feb 03 2019 9:54am

SamRich wrote:
Feb 01 2019 3:48pm
Does anyone know what is that opening/hole on the top? A vent?
Should be
Yinlong LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests: https://youtu.be/eAUYbSDEy6I
Toshiba SCiB LTO Lithium Titanate safety tests:https://youtu.be/XsrRDZxEFQE

LG M50 vs Samsung 48G:https://youtu.be/KGJDogOG4zw
LiFePO4: QB26650 2500mAh 50A vs A123 ANR26650M1B: https://youtu.be/GOSkte11lRc

ecomax1   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Nov 01 2018 7:58am

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by ecomax1 » Nov 29 2019 8:47am

HELLO , i search to made some lifepo4 battery for solar PV in 15S 10P with 90 ah cells
, some cells are grade B some grade A ,price are simple or double
the capacity on test are same , what is differences grade A and B ??? internal resistance ? discharge Rate is limited ? thanks for help

john61ct   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2558
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by john61ct » Nov 29 2019 10:51am

Are you talking about ANR26650s?

jonyjoe303   100 W

100 W
Posts: 104
Joined: Aug 31 2017 9:44pm

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by jonyjoe303 » Nov 29 2019 11:31am

from what I seen, internal resistance always determines the better quality cell. The lower the resistance the higher the discharge rate. The high discharge cells always sell at a premium price.

For a powerwall you might not need high discharge cells, but for a bike pack you need to pay the the extra costs for the superior performance.

For A123 cells the difference between A and B is insignificant by the tests done. But the price difference is significant, an extra dollar for no extra benefit, adds up very quickly.

john61ct   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2558
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: A123 Systems ANR26650 Grade A vs Grade B - discharge test

Post by john61ct » Nov 29 2019 2:31pm

Discharge rate aka power density design (IR) and

Energy density

are opposing goals. Designing for one means compromising on the other.

Neither correlates with reliability / longevity, in a non-propulsion, low C-rate usage context.

Post Reply