New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Peetsyo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: May 16 2018 3:41pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 21 2019 9:49am

Bigwheel wrote:
Feb 10 2019 4:29pm
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 10 2019 4:05pm
Hi,




I cannot use the motors torque arm to hold the motor in position , so maybe I can drill holes into the gear housing and fix the motor to frames chainguide mount (ISCG-05). I've got a full suspension frame , that's my only option.

Cheers !

No need to even do that. Just let the motor housing rest against your down tube and the rotational force will hold it up against there. You can put a piece of rubber there as a bumper so that the dt won't get damaged if it is an aluminum/carbon frame. Just make sure you use the two tab bb washer to prevent the motor from twisting side to side also.

The rear swingarm won't let me stop the motor from turning.
So I removed the torque sensor and drilled holes into the housing to fix it with ISCG mount

I haven't had any tests yet tho. (don't try it @ home yet.)
tsdz2-intall.jpg

raylo32   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 21 2019 10:04am

Where are you going to fit the battery on that bike??

casainho   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 21 2019 10:07am

Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 21 2019 9:49am
Bigwheel wrote:
Feb 10 2019 4:29pm
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 10 2019 4:05pm
Hi,




I cannot use the motors torque arm to hold the motor in position , so maybe I can drill holes into the gear housing and fix the motor to frames chainguide mount (ISCG-05). I've got a full suspension frame , that's my only option.

Cheers !

No need to even do that. Just let the motor housing rest against your down tube and the rotational force will hold it up against there. You can put a piece of rubber there as a bumper so that the dt won't get damaged if it is an aluminum/carbon frame. Just make sure you use the two tab bb washer to prevent the motor from twisting side to side also.

The rear swingarm won't let me stop the motor from turning.
So I removed the torque sensor and drilled holes into the housing to fix it with ISCG mount

I haven't had any tests yet tho. (don't try it @ home yet.)

tsdz2-intall.jpg
If you removed torque sensor, how do you plan to activate the motor assistance?? Using only PAS??
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

raylo32   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 21 2019 10:27am

I'm thinking he only removed it to gain access to install the fasteners, then reinstalled it. Maybe....

[/quote]
If you removed torque sensor, how do you plan to activate the motor assistance?? Using only PAS??
[/quote]

Peetsyo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: May 16 2018 3:41pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 22 2019 4:30am

raylo32 wrote:
Feb 21 2019 10:27am
I'm thinking he only removed it to gain access to install the fasteners, then reinstalled it. Maybe....
If you removed torque sensor, how do you plan to activate the motor assistance?? Using only PAS??
[/quote]
[/quote]

Yes correct , just removed the torque sensor to gain access. I did not want to risk drilling through the torque sensor or damage it.

zappan   1 W

1 W
Posts: 63
Joined: Sep 27 2018 3:00am
Location: Sicilia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by zappan » Feb 22 2019 6:48am

Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 22 2019 4:30am
raylo32 wrote:
Feb 21 2019 10:27am
I'm thinking he only removed it to gain access to install the fasteners, then reinstalled it. Maybe....
If you removed torque sensor, how do you plan to activate the motor assistance?? Using only PAS??
[/quote]

Yes correct , just removed the torque sensor to gain access. I did not want to risk drilling through the torque sensor or damage it.
[/quote]

Hello, nice idea :thumb: can you send more photos? did you use something to waterproof?

Peetsyo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: May 16 2018 3:41pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 22 2019 12:44pm

zappan wrote:
Feb 22 2019 6:48am
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 22 2019 4:30am
raylo32 wrote:
Feb 21 2019 10:27am
I'm thinking he only removed it to gain access to install the fasteners, then reinstalled it. Maybe....
If you removed torque sensor, how do you plan to activate the motor assistance?? Using only PAS??
Yes correct , just removed the torque sensor to gain access. I did not want to risk drilling through the torque sensor or damage it.
[/quote]

Hello, nice idea :thumb: can you send more photos? did you use something to waterproof?
[/quote]

Those were the only pictures. I forgot to waterproof but you can always use silicone sealant. The most challenging part is to drill precise holes into the housing.

User avatar
eyebyesickle   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 686
Joined: Apr 07 2015 9:28pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Feb 22 2019 10:48pm

I am always checking out good conversion candidates... I think this bike would be very good for a commuter conversion...belt drive and IGH... I would do a 36v witha stealth bottle battery...what do you guys think?>

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx

tomtom50   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Jun 18 2018 10:09am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Feb 22 2019 11:12pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
Feb 22 2019 10:48pm
I am always checking out good conversion candidates... I think this bike would be very good for a commuter conversion...belt drive and IGH... I would do a 36v witha stealth bottle battery...what do you guys think?>

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx
Would a belt cog at the cranks match up with the back cog? (Beltline)

User avatar
eyebyesickle   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 686
Joined: Apr 07 2015 9:28pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Feb 23 2019 12:57am

tomtom50 wrote:
Feb 22 2019 11:12pm
eyebyesickle wrote:
Feb 22 2019 10:48pm
I am always checking out good conversion candidates... I think this bike would be very good for a commuter conversion...belt drive and IGH... I would do a 36v witha stealth bottle battery...what do you guys think?>

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx
Would a belt cog at the cranks match up with the back cog? (Beltline)
Forgot to mention, would need the 130 or 104bcd gates carbon drive chain ring, and could use corresponding TSDZ2 adapter. seems like a really good price for the bike...

mctubster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 197
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Feb 23 2019 2:06am

tomtom50 wrote:
Feb 22 2019 11:12pm
eyebyesickle wrote:
Feb 22 2019 10:48pm
I am always checking out good conversion candidates... I think this bike would be very good for a commuter conversion...belt drive and IGH... I would do a 36v witha stealth bottle battery...what do you guys think?>

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx
Would a belt cog at the cranks match up with the back cog? (Beltline)
I would be very concerned about beltline. I've had a Carbon Gates drive bike driving a Alfine 11 for a few years and looked at replacing the front crank and chainring. Very tricky to get it lined up and based on the belt tension I doubt it would suffer more than a mm or two of misalignment because the belt is wide and the load sits across the entire belt.

User avatar
eyebyesickle   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 686
Joined: Apr 07 2015 9:28pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Feb 23 2019 2:09am

mctubster wrote:
Feb 23 2019 2:06am
tomtom50 wrote:
Feb 22 2019 11:12pm
eyebyesickle wrote:
Feb 22 2019 10:48pm
I am always checking out good conversion candidates... I think this bike would be very good for a commuter conversion...belt drive and IGH... I would do a 36v witha stealth bottle battery...what do you guys think?>

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx
Would a belt cog at the cranks match up with the back cog? (Beltline)
I would be very concerned about beltline. I've had a Carbon Gates drive bike driving a Alfine 11 for a few years and looked at replacing the front crank and chainring. Very tricky to get it lined up and based on the belt tension I doubt it would suffer more than a mm or two of misalignment because the belt is wide and the load sits across the entire belt.
Yes, this is my only concern too, but I feel confident about having a buddy machine an offset to match the chainline! Also, in my experience, the TSDZ2 usually lines up nicely with the IGH cog, so hopefully that wouldn't even have to happen, although we are prepared for it. I will try one soon and let you guys know how much of a headache I have afterwords! :lol:

Rydon   100 W

100 W
Posts: 239
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 23 2019 3:12am

tomtom50 wrote:
Feb 22 2019 11:12pm
eyebyesickle wrote:
Feb 22 2019 10:48pm
I am always checking out good conversion candidates... I think this bike would be very good for a commuter conversion...belt drive and IGH... I would do a 36v witha stealth bottle battery...what do you guys think?>

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx
Would a belt cog at the cranks match up with the back cog? (Beltline)
I have looked at this bike as well and their whole line is good value. You need to check how they tighten the belt. If the chainstays slide out to tighten you are good. However, if it uses the popular method of concentric bb rotating to tighten then it won't work. Even if you can clear the concentric BB these typically have a bolted flange under the bottom bracket that sticks out way to far for a mid-drive.

You may be ok on chainline. The N380 is 45.5 offset, the TSDZ2 is 50 minus the Gates flange offset of 3.1 gives you 46.9 at the cranks. So 1.4mm difference and Gates allows up to ~3mm. However, if you need to space the TSDZ2 out to clear the chainstay all bets are off.

tomtom50   100 W

100 W
Posts: 186
Joined: Jun 18 2018 10:09am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Feb 23 2019 10:21am

eyebyesickle wrote:
Feb 23 2019 2:09am
Yes, this is my only concern too, but I feel confident about having a buddy machine an offset to match the chainline! Also, in my experience, the TSDZ2 usually lines up nicely with the IGH cog, so hopefully that wouldn't even have to happen, although we are prepared for it. I will try one soon and let you guys know how much of a headache I have afterwords! :lol:
Let us know if you try it. Sounds like fun. I’m thinking of changing my 11-36 freehub to a nexus 8-speed. Almost the same range.

hego   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Feb 16 2019 11:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hego » Feb 23 2019 10:41am

I´m not sure if a Nexus 8/Alfine can handel a high torque: them haven a torque limiter, a potection for avoid the internal gears damage.

I like and use them (since 15 years) , but sometimes this limiter works with only my legs forces.Add a motor and ... ufffff !!!!

Cheers
Last edited by hego on Feb 23 2019 2:00pm, edited 1 time in total.

neibol   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Feb 23 2019 11:53am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by neibol » Feb 23 2019 12:00pm

Hi, I have bought kit tsdz2 36v 350W with XH18 LCD and I have some doubts.
1.) Can you put braking sensor even if it comes with lcd XH18?
2.) What adapter is needed to put a plate of 48 or 52?
3) Being XH18, does it come with 6 pins or 8 pins? If it has 6 pins is it possible to put the new firmware?
Thank you.

casainho   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 23 2019 2:49pm

Pictures of my latest build (Decatlhon Rockrider 540S M size frame) using TSDZ2, a new bicycle shared for my girlfriend and son (yes, he has already almost his height).

I will update the wiki with some of this new pictures and information.

Fixing TSDZ2 to the bicycle full suspension frame and also adding a support for the chain ring gears since original support must be removed to install TSDZ2:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Adding the temperature sensor, for the first time I used double side thermal tape that I bought on Ebay -- this way I make sure sensor has a very good contact with the motor case, and hence a good reading.
That motor controller has the 6 pins and so I had to access to PCB and solder wires to the temperature sensor.
Image

Image

Image

My bicycle compared to this new one:
Image

He is so happy!!
Image

Image
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

mctubster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 197
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Feb 23 2019 3:12pm

Rydon wrote:
Feb 23 2019 3:12am

I have looked at this bike as well and their whole line is good value. You need to check how they tighten the belt. If the chainstays slide out to tighten you are good. However, if it uses the popular method of concentric bb rotating to tighten then it won't work. Even if you can clear the concentric BB these typically have a bolted flange under the bottom bracket that sticks out way to far for a mid-drive.

You may be ok on chainline. The N380 is 45.5 offset, the TSDZ2 is 50 minus the Gates flange offset of 3.1 gives you 46.9 at the cranks. So 1.4mm difference and Gates allows up to ~3mm. However, if you need to space the TSDZ2 out to clear the chainstay all bets are off.
Looks like standard front BB, and adjustable chainstay length based on photos in this review

https://cycletechreview.com/2018/bikes- ... nuum-onyx/

sysrq   100 W

100 W
Posts: 126
Joined: May 07 2018 6:05pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Feb 23 2019 5:43pm

sysrq wrote:
Feb 20 2019 8:06am
sysrq wrote:
Feb 19 2019 11:59am
raylo32 wrote:
Feb 16 2019 5:04pm
Please take some pics to document the maintenance. Perhaps the mods could make a TSDZ2 maintenance sticky for users to refer to.
sysrq wrote:
Feb 16 2019 3:19pm
After riding in a misty weather during autumn and not using it for two months the motor now seems a bit louder and grittier. Probably will have to check the grease level on a secondary gear before finding out if white lithium grease is suitable.
Is there enough factory grease or it needs more. Overgreasing is never good.
https://imgur.com/a/Ey1ZKxm?
Will gonna use Lucas Red n Tacky since mineral oils can be mixed with polyalphaolefins found in factory Molykote EM-50L and it has lithium as a thickiner as well. The only concern would be unknown additives. And since mineral oil is compatible with nylon or acetal then seeping might not damage anything. Only lubricants based on esters or polyglycols are generally not compatible with plastics.
Polyurea grease (ParkPolylube, Lucas X-TRA Heavy Duty) would be better though as they say it holds up better at high speeds and is compatible with plastics too, but then everything would have to be completely degreased and that means complete overhaul.
The last reason is that some moly grease can be abrasive on certain parts.
http://what-when-how.com/materialsparts ... -plastics/
http://www.newmantools.com/pipestoppers ... nce_nt.pdf
https://www.autozone.com/greases-and-ge ... 693860_0_0
Actually esters are compatible with nylon according to current known source.
Actually Molykote EM-50L seems stickier and thicker than Lucas Red n Tacky, despite Lucas Red n Tacky being NLGI 2 and Molykote EM-50L NLGI 1. Will see if extreme pressure additives make any difference. Turns out in long term only synthetic ones are better for plastics, since they deteriorate slower.
Another thing was that later models actually do have slightly helical secondary gear, although it seems fairly noisy anyway. In this regard quote from BrunoPOWEEER: ''Helical gears crease a side load and..... pumps the grease like a propeller to one side of the gear.. eventually one side of the gears won't be lubricated... combining this with extreme torque... this was a recipe for disaster!! No wonder why my pinion gear was damaged so badly.'' That's what I noticed when regreasing it.
Last edited by sysrq on Feb 23 2019 6:52pm, edited 3 times in total.

Rydon   100 W

100 W
Posts: 239
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 24 2019 3:43am

mctubster wrote:
Feb 23 2019 3:12pm
Rydon wrote:
Feb 23 2019 3:12am

I have looked at this bike as well and their whole line is good value. You need to check how they tighten the belt. If the chainstays slide out to tighten you are good. However, if it uses the popular method of concentric bb rotating to tighten then it won't work. Even if you can clear the concentric BB these typically have a bolted flange under the bottom bracket that sticks out way to far for a mid-drive.

You may be ok on chainline. The N380 is 45.5 offset, the TSDZ2 is 50 minus the Gates flange offset of 3.1 gives you 46.9 at the cranks. So 1.4mm difference and Gates allows up to ~3mm. However, if you need to space the TSDZ2 out to clear the chainstay all bets are off.
Looks like standard front BB, and adjustable chainstay length based on photos in this review

https://cycletechreview.com/2018/bikes- ... nuum-onyx/
Nice catch. Won't have to buy one to find out. :wink: It really is a nice combination of features for a great price if you are looking for a city/commuter bike. Too bad it has the Trekking N380 groupset instead of the more robust Sportive. The Sportive is rated at 500 watts and the Trekking is rated at 250 watts so the Sportive would be better suited to the TSDZ2. That being said, however, I have run BBSHD 1000 watt motors on the regular Nuvinci N380 Trekking equivalent with no problems. The Techs at Nuvinci told me that they have only really had problems with people putting large >22T cogs on it and generating so much torque it cracked the case. Another source told me that the new Sportive version is beefed up and will take bursts of 1000 watts so I expect it will probably go well beyond that. Great little IGH's. Too bad they are not available on the aftermarket yet. Enviolo is only shipping them to branded manufacturers. You can however still buy Nuvinci branded N380's on eBay and Amazon.

Did you notice how many teeth the Priority bike has on the front Gates chainring and the rear cog?

AZUR   10 W

10 W
Posts: 97
Joined: Apr 05 2018 6:52am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AZUR » Feb 24 2019 5:58am

casainho wrote:
Feb 23 2019 2:49pm
Pictures of my latest build (Decatlhon Rockrider 540S M size frame) using TSDZ2, a new bicycle shared for my girlfriend and son (yes, he has already almost his height).

I will update the wiki with some of this new pictures and information.

Fixing TSDZ2 to the bicycle full suspension frame and also adding a support for the chain ring gears since original support must be removed to install TSDZ2:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Adding the temperature sensor, for the first time I used double side thermal tape that I bought on Ebay -- this way I make sure sensor has a very good contact with the motor case, and hence a good reading.
That motor controller has the 6 pins and so I had to access to PCB and solder wires to the temperature sensor.
Image

Image

Image

My bicycle compared to this new one:
Image

He is so happy!!
Image

Image
Hi
It looks great.

Can you give us the ebay link for the thermal tape?

Thanks

sparkysx   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Feb 24 2019 10:24am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sparkysx » Feb 24 2019 10:27am

So, do I get one of these or the bafang? I keep going back and forth between the two and am still undecided. Which ever one I get would have to be 250w though.

hego   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Feb 16 2019 11:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hego » Feb 24 2019 11:14am

Casainho two questions:

a- The conexión into the controller for the termal sensor LM35 operation are diferents points of the usually documentaion. Where take the +5v?

b- There is any problem with this sensor when we use back the stock firmware. Any problem or interference?

Thank´s

Bartman   10 W

10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: Feb 11 2018 2:38pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Feb 24 2019 11:20am

casainho wrote:
Feb 23 2019 2:49pm
Pictures of my latest build (Decatlhon Rockrider 540S M size frame) using TSDZ2, a new bicycle shared for my girlfriend and son (yes, he has already almost his height).

I will update the wiki with some of this new pictures and information.

Fixing TSDZ2 to the bicycle full suspension frame and also adding a support for the chain ring gears since original support must be removed to install TSDZ2:
Image
Nice job Casainho. And good find with the bracket. Can you share where you the bracket from ?

Bartman   10 W

10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: Feb 11 2018 2:38pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Feb 24 2019 11:36am

Bartman wrote:
Feb 24 2019 11:20am
casainho wrote:
Feb 23 2019 2:49pm
Pictures of my latest build (Decatlhon Rockrider 540S M size frame) using TSDZ2, a new bicycle shared for my girlfriend and son (yes, he has already almost his height).

I will update the wiki with some of this new pictures and information.

Fixing TSDZ2 to the bicycle full suspension frame and also adding a support for the chain ring gears since original support must be removed to install TSDZ2:
Image
Nice job Casainho. And good find with the bracket. Can you share where you the bracket from ?
Found them. Tube clamps.

Post Reply