Electric free ride build from scratch

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Bonneville   100 mW

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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 10 2019 7:15am

Greetings to all

Im a new user from India and this is my first post after joining the forum. but ive been a reader of the forum for many years .

so I started building this electric off-road freeride type bike a couple of weeks ago
decided to build from scratch and design and make the frame.

my prior experience in making an e-bike was what I did for my son couple of months back with a 350W motor and a custom frame built from mild steel angle bars

so this time I decided to make the bike a little more powerful ( which can do wheelies) and started buying the required components. I was kind of hooked on to RC motor mid drives thanks to builds by Tom Ttraton and Patric and Shumaker and also to the sticky index and blogs by a fellow submariner spinning magnets

I went on a buying spree and ordered a sensored RC outrunner by flipsky - 6374 and a VESC 4.12 controller which is yet to arrive . but now im really in a dilemma if this would suffice the requirement of doing effortless wheelies on the bike.

Im thinking of a 12 S Sensored set up with the vesc 4.2 controller which is capable of giving 50 amps continuous and very high burst current(claims > 200 amps )

as for the drive mechanism since the motor is a 190kv ill be using a reduction of 1:18 with two belt reduction drives of 4 each and a chain final reduction of 2.

total estimated weight of my bike will be less than 40 kg and my own weight is 72 kg. ive already built the frame and the main frame without the zoom shock absorbers weigh 7 kg.


It would be great if anyone in the forum can comment of the flipsky motor and vesc 4.12 controller would live up to the expectation of doing wheelies. if the motor and controller are not fit for the task then ill keep aside the plan for making a reduction gearbox by CNC milling and look for other motor oiptions such as a QS V3 motor being run as a mid drive.

kindly advice

PS: I am desperately trying to figure out how to ass pictures but somehow its not working the way i read it in the forum. im unable to drag and drop and also unable to add files. it says : It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image. Please verify that the URL you entered is correct.



maybe the size is big

raylo32   100 W

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Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by raylo32 » Mar 10 2019 7:46am

If you are posting a link to a remote image on a hosting site the file size doesn't matter. Just make sure you are copying and pasting the correct code. It should look like something this: (img)https://xxxx.com/xxxx.jpg(/img) I use a site called imgur that hosts for free. The image code actually uses square brackets [ ] not parenthses. I had to substitute parens or else it would just display a broken image. So your image code should look like my example but have [ ] at the beginning and end around the img text.

You can also easily add photos directly to your post by uploading them to ES. Just click on the "attachments" tab below the text box you type your message, then select the file on your computer. There probably is a size limit to do that but I don't know the exact number since I always do the remote method above. Good practice to downsize them to limit the storage space they consume on ES.

Bonneville   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 10 2019 7:55am

Image

the design of the frame was inspired by the post by adam on lmx bike build

Image

the first bike I built. custom frame 350 w motor

Image

the free ride frame in the making

Image

jig for steering neck alignment

Image

laser cut jig for main frame welding
Image

mock up . tyre was the wrong choice so scrapped it
Last edited by Bonneville on Mar 10 2019 11:06am, edited 1 time in total.

Bonneville   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 10 2019 7:57am

raylo32 wrote:
Mar 10 2019 7:46am
If you are posting a link to a remote image on a hosting site the file size doesn't matter. Just make sure you are copying and pasting the correct code. It should look like something this: (img)https://xxxx.com/xxxx.jpg(/img) I use a site called imgur that hosts for free. The image code actually uses square brackets [ ] not parenthses. I had to substitute parens or else it would just display a broken image. So your image code should look like my example but have [ ] at the beginning and end around the img text.

You can also easily add photos directly to your post by uploading them to ES. Just click on the "attachments" tab below the text box you type your message, then select the file on your computer. There probably is a size limit to do that but I don't know the exact number since I always do the remote method above. Good practice to downsize them to limit the storage space they consume on ES.
thanks for the tip raylo32, I used a similar site photobucket. guess it works now

raylo32   100 W

100 W
Posts: 121
Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by raylo32 » Mar 10 2019 8:04am

Photobucket is evil. I used to host my pics there for many years until they tried to extort $$ from all users.... then they stopped hosting literally millions of photos that "broke the internet". I have many many threads in other forums where the photos are gone forever. I wouldn't trust them.
Bonneville wrote:
Mar 10 2019 7:57am


thanks for the tip raylo32, I used a similar site photobucket. guess it works now

Bonneville   100 mW

100 mW
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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 10 2019 8:06am

:shock: Oh that's y I can't open many photobucket pics in some forums.

raylo32   100 W

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Posts: 121
Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by raylo32 » Mar 10 2019 8:08am

imgur is a good free alternative... for now anyway. But I guess there is no guarantee it will stay that way.
Bonneville wrote:
Mar 10 2019 8:06am
:shock: Oh that's y I can't open many photobucket pics in some forums.

Grantmac   10 kW

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Joined: Oct 22 2018 12:43pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Grantmac » Mar 10 2019 12:00pm

Consider either the Eastgem D4500 or QS1000 mid drive motors. Either will run with just a single reduction to the rear wheel and come with controllers. Costs are similar although I think the QS might be built better.

I'm currently working on a design around the QS1000 but haven't ordered it yet.

Bonneville   100 mW

100 mW
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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 10 2019 12:12pm

To what wattage can the 1000 w QS be taken safely ?
Will the vesc 4.12 be able to run the 1000 w QS ?

Bonneville   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 10 2019 12:18pm

Somehow I can find only QS hub motors on Ali. The Ds4500 looks ok in price

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Grantmac » Mar 10 2019 9:21pm

At least 4kw. The "3kw" will do 15kw....

You have to email them: damon@tzquanshun.com

Bonneville   100 mW

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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 10 2019 9:38pm

Grantmac wrote:
Mar 10 2019 9:21pm
At least 4kw. The "3kw" will do 15kw....

You have to email them: damon@tzquanshun.com
Thank you very much . I'll mail to the guy and get back.

You said 3 kW can go up to 15 kW. Is it a typo or ....

Bonneville   100 mW

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Posts: 37
Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 11 2019 3:33am

Image

In the meantime the rear swing arm fixed in place. A rod welded just to keep it in position wrt the frame till I get the rear shocks

Grantmac   10 kW

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Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Grantmac » Mar 11 2019 11:49am

Bonneville wrote:
Mar 10 2019 9:38pm
Grantmac wrote:
Mar 10 2019 9:21pm
At least 4kw. The "3kw" will do 15kw....

You have to email them: damon@tzquanshun.com
Thank you very much . I'll mail to the guy and get back.

You said 3 kW can go up to 15 kW. Is it a typo or ....
They are rated very conservatively and also according to their minimum voltage from what I can see.

Bonneville   100 mW

100 mW
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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 11 2019 9:14pm

Ok great. But my dilemma still continues . Denzel ds4500 and QS are good options

But is there any one who has used a vesc4.12 and 6374 outrunner configuration ?
Since I've already ordered it I want to know if this set up would work or not with a 12s lipo before I keep it aside and go for another option

Thanks in advance

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Overclocker   10 kW

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Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Overclocker » Mar 12 2019 6:06am



nice build! i have a similar one, do check out my build thread

btw is that your final swing-arm?

also the zoom fork is kinda dodgy for electric motorcycle use. i know coz i have one :lol: better find an RST R-One if you need a budget fork. i was supposed to use the RST for my build but someone bought it so i ended up w/ a rockshox domain

Bonneville   100 mW

100 mW
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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 12 2019 8:48am

Superb build. I went through the whole thread . Quite motivated

No the swing arm and everything about it is temporary. I had a couple of days leave and wanted to see the bike with the rear wheel fitted so modified a Yamaha rx100 rear swing arm to accept the rear wheel

I really liked your swing arm design . Made some CAD models none in agreement with my weight target

I used normal bicycle wheels for rear as of now. Even I want to have something stronger in the rear.
How much does the wheels and hub weigh in you bike ?

Bonneville   100 mW

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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 12 2019 8:57am

Image


Made these brackets from 3mm mild steel. But I need to make that also properly. Did this kind of a mock up because I was dying to see the bike on two wheels . I've just welded a steel flat bar because the shock hasn't arrived. I have ordered a " Do not move" shock :lol: but not the burner an AOY 36 for rear

Is zoom that bad ???? Found a little on stiffer side actually . Will progress with this one as of now and when I have sufficient funds I'll look for a better model like yours

Image

Bonneville   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 12 2019 8:58am

Image


Made these brackets from 3mm mild steel. But I need to make that also properly. Did this kind of a mock up because I was dying to see the bike on two wheels . I've just welded a steel flat bar because the shock hasn't arrived. I have ordered a " Do not move" shock :lol: but not the burner an AOY 36 for rear

Is zoom that bad ???? Found a little on stiffer side actually . Will progress with this one as of now and when I have sufficient funds I'll look for a better model like yours

Image

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Overclocker   10 kW

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Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Overclocker » Mar 12 2019 10:31am

yes the zoom is really bad. in fact it comes w/ a warning label. check it out. i says not for aggressive riding or something to that effect :lol: i cracked mine by simply tightening the pinch bolts so the metallurgy is very suspect. also they don't have any kind of damping i.e. they're pogo sticks, dangerous is use off-road

as for AOY-36 is that an air shock? probably not a good idea for a heavy-duty application like a 40+ kg electric moto. check out the leverage ratio of my swing-arm. i'm using a DNM RCP-2 which is a downhill shock, with 550 pound spring and it's too soft. i'll be getting a stiffer spring

Bonneville   100 mW

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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 12 2019 8:58pm

Sad news about zoom

AOY 36 is air shock . Looks like my part buying spree was nt well planned.

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Overclocker   10 kW

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Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Overclocker » Mar 12 2019 9:19pm

check out this thread re zoom: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=68861

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24X24MM ... 30325.html

your air shock will probably work but i'm a bit worried about long-term durability because it was designed for lightweight XC bikes, not DH. check out the link i think these are even cheaper than the air shock. afaik they've been used successfully on the kuberg freerider. go for the 240mm version w/ 650lb spring

Bonneville   100 mW

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Joined: Jan 07 2019 11:17am

Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 12 2019 9:44pm

Overclocker wrote:
Mar 12 2019 9:19pm
check out this thread re zoom: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=68861

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24X24MM ... 30325.html

your air shock will probably work but i'm a bit worried about long-term durability because it was designed for lightweight XC bikes, not DH. check out the link i think these are even cheaper than the air shock. afaik they've been used successfully on the kuberg freerider. go for the 240mm version w/ 650lb spring
Thanks for the link. :bigthumb: will read the thread and get back

Rudic   1 µW

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Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Rudic » Mar 17 2019 2:48pm

I made an electric pocket bike

SK3 6374 -192 -12s Multistar Lipo - VESC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZOdHgs2wxM

it lacks in topspeed (low power), slighty better than a 49cc chinese engine pocket bike, little less than a Polini 4.2 (hp)-40 cc engine pocket bike.
Torque is better than any "normal" not chinese engine pocket bike (in races motors start from 10 hp and above )
If you want to do wheelie i think sk3- 6374 is not the right motor

Bonneville   100 mW

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Re: Electric free ride build from scratch

Post by Bonneville » Mar 18 2019 6:56am

Thanks rudic
Now that was the little push I required after advice from overclocker and grantmac to take a decision on motor selection .
Lucky for me the 6375 and vesc I ordered are still not delivered even after 48 days. And now I have requested for cancellation and refund.

I also took a look at ds4500 and the 3kw golden motor as the next options.


After reading the thread on zoom shocks which overclocker sent me I'm in doubt wether to use them or not

The redesign of the rear swing arm is still in progress. Now that the motor option is getting clearer I'd rather go with a design like that of overclocker where in the motor is on the swingarm to avoid chain tensioning issues.

End result is I'm contemplating and no actual progress .

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