Rieju 50cc conversion

Nice build, I have an offer of an old yamaha dt 125 that might be interesting to convert..
I think it could even be leagal :shock:

For now I am building a "stelth bomber" clone or something..
I am looking for a controller for it, I would be interested in your input. The APT looks interesting, but a bit big..
Did you find out if it has torque throttle?
 
This might interest you:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494

Official sales will beginn in the next two months but people have been able get some early, try contacting him.
 
larsb said:
It's only speed throttle. Hard to not notice when driving with slick tires in mud.. One slip and the wheel goes 100km/h :D

I think it's too big for that type of bike, better get something that can fit
Click to expand...

larsb, now you got me scared. Can you please clarify what you mean by "speed throttle"? Hope it's not a voltage throttle controller :shock: Anyway this is what I found on QS motor website: SPACE VECTOR & DIRECT TORQUE CONTROL PM MOTOR DRIVER - AE1405 Series,the latest product by Shanghai APT, specially designed for EV or Scooters use the PM motors for its main drive power. By the method of space vector and direct torque control, based on the 32bit ARM processer, and embedded the APT private algorithm, the product's features mostly presented are large torque and high speed, as well as high reliability. BTW already ordered the brick.
 
If the tire slips to full speed (in mud for instance) while the throttle is somewhere below WOT (30% for example) then you got a torque throttle Controller.
Which is what most people want.
I for one don't prefer one over the other.
 
You're probably right ee291, did i have it backwards..

Is it like this?:
Speed controller , voltage is controlled so the requested throttle gives you corresponding voltage to the motor with possibly max current, kv*volt rpm is reached.

Torque controller, current is controlled so it gives corresponding current (no matter what resistance, or wheel spin rpm) until BEMF balances voltage at high rpm

I guess it's not this simple, i should read up on boost/buck converters and PWM, svm etc again :D
 
:thumb: All clear now, thanks for clarifying that. Larsb, the way you described it above is also the way I get it. Voltage - speed, current - torque. BTW you got your moto moving again on a new pack?
 
Yes, that is pretty much it in simple terms.

But people always like to point out that in both situation the Controller regulates the Voltage, since current limiting is done by lowering the voltage until the desired current (torque Controller) or speed (speed Controller) is reached.
 
Bartosh said:
:thumb: All clear now, thanks for clarifying that. Larsb, the way you described it above is also the way I get it. Voltage - speed, current - torque. BTW you got your moto moving again on a new pack?
Click to expand...

I am well on the way to getting it running again :wink: I will start a thread on the battery pack build in a few days, currently i am doing some CAD work to design new battery covers.
 
eee291 said:
This might interest you:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494

Official sales will beginn in the next two months but people have been able get some early, try contacting him.
Click to expand...

I am already on the list for a 24 fet :wink:
That is farter away though, if it was just one month it would not be a problem. It will take at least a month to finish the bike anyway. But the 24 fet is several months away, so I am trying to figure out what options there are if I can´t wait..

Thank you all so far, I think the APT would fit. But it would be with just a mm or so to spare..
 
Thing is that with a powerful controller you want a big battery :D so even if APT physically fits, can you fit enough batteries at the same time?

I liked the votol em150s controller for cheap and high output. Mine got issues after a few hundred kms but i wonder if the root cause was only the controller or the rest of the system.

I'd possibly recommend it :D
 
larsb said:
You're probably right ee291, did i have it backwards..

Is it like this?:
Speed controller , voltage is controlled so the requested throttle gives you corresponding voltage to the motor with possibly max current, kv*volt rpm is reached.

Torque controller, current is controlled so it gives corresponding current (no matter what resistance, or wheel spin rpm) until BEMF balances voltage at high rpm

I guess it's not this simple, i should read up on boost/buck converters and PWM, svm etc again :D
Click to expand...


In some controller as Kelly KBS-X (that do not have the torque controller as option, at least not the real one), I found the pin 8 marked as "Meter: Current meter". I am going to try to use this pin as feedback of PID algorithm on Arduino to build a "current throttle" instead of a standard "voltage throttle"

Throttle <> Arduino <> Controller
|
Pin 8 (current meter)
|
PID Feedback <

I do not if it can be useful but for sure for hard dirt ride torque controller is very important
 
I only had a few houses to work to my e-trial but some progress has been made 8)

I used 2 5mm metal plates to fix the motor on the frame.
- On the motor cog side I soldered the plate dirctly to the frame for provides maximum strength.
- On the other side I fixed the plate with 4 6mm bolts.
In this way it will be quite easy to remove the motor.


View attachment 3


Capture3.JPG


To keep the motor in position I used 2 rims 3d printed on TPU, it prevent vibrations but also allow to tolerate small misalignments between the engine and the frame.

Capture4.JPG



The controller fits perfectly donw the seat


Capture2.JPG

On the next step I am going to cable the motor.

I am looking forward to drive the e-trial with this new motor.
 
larsb said:
That ride will be so nice! I am building batteries currently so have some progress to post. I think i need to kick you out of this thread so you start your own :D
Click to expand...

Yep probably yes :wink: but consider that all I build here became from your experience and infos so can we consider my e-trial as the son of your Rieju? :p :p
 
larsb said:
Couldn't get the bike moving today. I checked for faults and it seems controller is busted.

It doesn't read correct voltage and "undervoltage" error and "controller failure" is shown. After something like 50 on/off attempts finally controller turns on correctly. It loses the voltage reading again after two more attempts so driving is again lost.

Controller ON is full battery voltage and the B+ and B- is solidly connected, the other parameters like revolutions, high level and low level switch is shown correctly. Don't understand what can cause the voltage reading to get lost,

? maybe someone with controller build knowledge can explain how the voltage sensing circuit might be designed ? maybe it's fixable.
Or is it done in the microcontroller? (ie non fixable)
image.jpeg
image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

This is sooo extremely annoying. I've had too many controllers dying on me in these five years in the ebike world. Maybe i'll just quit building and buy an e-scooter or something. :lowbatt: :lowbatt: :lowbatt:
Click to expand...

I am experimenting exactly the same issue as you reported but on the first time I powered up the Votol controller.
At the beginning only "undervoltage" error appeared, after some tests also the other two errors you reported appeared to the screen.

For me it seems to be resolved using a specific version of the controller tool "EM_V3-EM200-11-English.exe" found here
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f8p4vd7gpaxs3p4/AACjCPoRItS5BvJljrZC8Ubxa?dl=0
Click to expand...
in folder EM controller > EM200. In this version of the tool I can also change the controller version with the right one(votol-150).

Another tips i made to make the engine spin is replacing domino throttle with an hall throttle (it is a known problem).

I hope it can be also useful also for you
 
larsb said:
Was this the program link from my original post? they updated it in this case :wink:
I already fixed the domino throttle issue but i will try this program, thanks!!
Click to expand...

I think it was, I tried VOTOL-EM-V3-Software Debugging(CAN) , no CAN, tricycle without success

How did you fixed the domino throttle? I need to do the same thing :shock:
 
larsb said:
It's in this thread, i added resistors in the potentiometer lines to offset the starting voltage and end voltage of the throttle.
Click to expand...

Yes I tried and it works partially but on heavy deceleration the controller cut-off. My guess is the controller recognizes these fast changes of the resistance as a throttle sensor failure.
I solved for now by replacing the domino ( :cry: ) with an hall sensor throttle. I read on threat you had some uncontrolled cut-off colud be the same issue?
 
I don't think so, i had throttle runaways and i guess root cause was short-circuit in the throttle wires. It's very scary when you have a powerful setup..

I have scrapped the domino :D (still think it's great but it had to go after the runaway issues, might just replace it with a new one)
 
Clanarn said:
Larsb,
The apt96600 sounds quite amazing for its price.
But something that dosent really appears is the max battery current it pulls.
Do you have any clues about that number?
Thanks
Click to expand...

I tried the new batteries today :D

Edit:eek:nly 250A is possible to set in program. See later post!
 
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