Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw NO LONGER FOR SALE

Place for dealers to post items for sale.
User avatar
minde28383   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 469
Joined: Apr 02 2010 7:11am

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by minde28383 » Mar 13 2019 4:12pm

It's so hard to believe that hubs are made worse today than they were ten years ago.
If you after efficiency than use low Kv hub and run it high voltage battery, over 100v. But you won't reach 94%.
According simulator low Kv hub is slightly more efficient compared with high Kv hub.
ebike build in progress
CN 5.5kw scooter (on sale)
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (on sale)

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13652
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by John in CR » Mar 14 2019 8:53am

ridethelightning wrote:
Mar 13 2019 4:01am
aw damn. sounds like the monsters were the best. i thought to get one but the cast hub diddnt appeal to me at the time...
All hubmotors have some cast parts. Probably too much focus on weight, though that didn't stop people from thinking crap-lyte were something special. The shell of all 3 Monster models can be trimmed down quite a bit, but the shell isn't where the real weight is. It's primarily in the stator. If you want a powerful low rpm motor that's still capable of rpm greater than 1000, then weight is unavoidable. There was also the MidMonster that has an aluminum shell (only 1 side cover) with the magnet backing ring cast into the aluminum.

Efficiency is king for all of our motors. Low resistance makes high current possible without heat problems, and low no-load current means efficient at cruise. No other hubbie has come remotely close. Probably the best option now is the large diameter QS motors, the 273 that can be a torque beast enabling a larger diameter wheel to get reasonable speed, or their 260 that interests me most due to the lower slot and pole counts which should mean better rpm than the 273. Both of those options are significantly heavier than HubMonster.

The only option now, which was always the cheapest, is to look to the used market like EG did to get his 2, though it baffles me why he's wasting time with proven to be low performing outrunners instead of getting silent reliable fun transportation going first.

Armicb   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov 27 2014 4:00pm

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by Armicb » Mar 14 2019 1:39pm

Hi everybody,

I have a couple of lectric urban motorcycles which have these motors and I was able to rescue a couple of them from the scrapyard last year. If anybody is interested in getting one of them PM me.

I'm located in Spain, so probably sending them to Europe would not be very expensive.
Cheers

User avatar
ridethelightning   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1857
Joined: Jul 21 2013 9:48pm

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by ridethelightning » Mar 19 2019 7:14pm

pm sent

Armicb   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov 27 2014 4:00pm

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by Armicb » Mar 20 2019 3:16am

If the PM was sent to me it didn't reach its destination.

User avatar
ridethelightning   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1857
Joined: Jul 21 2013 9:48pm

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by ridethelightning » Mar 20 2019 3:20am

sorry. try that it now. diddnt send before somehow

suecy   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 12 2016 10:56am

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by suecy » Mar 20 2019 4:01am

@Armicb Pm sent

@John in CR can you give us a rough ballpark for the required license fees for 75 to 150 motors?

Armicb   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov 27 2014 4:00pm

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by Armicb » Mar 23 2019 6:07am

Attached some pics of the bikes and the motors

User avatar
tahitiboob   1 W

1 W
Posts: 63
Joined: Dec 19 2017 6:02pm

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by tahitiboob » Mar 23 2019 10:36am

me too pm send

The Mighty Volt   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2186
Joined: Oct 17 2009 9:35am
Location: Republic of Ireland.

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by The Mighty Volt » Mar 24 2019 8:21am

Armicb wrote:
Mar 23 2019 6:07am
Attached some pics of the bikes and the motors


Hi don't see the pictures, sorry. I am in London UK.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7064
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by markz » Mar 24 2019 9:40pm

I would look into either the MXUS 5000W motor or the QS 273 6000W motors.

The MXUS 5000W motor requires a wider dropout of 165mm I do believe.

User avatar
tahitiboob   1 W

1 W
Posts: 63
Joined: Dec 19 2017 6:02pm

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by tahitiboob » Mar 25 2019 2:54am

I had to make this choice too and I left on the qs273 in 17 inches 3.5t because impossible to have a return on the mxu 5k
on my bike I had a qs205 a sabvoton speed max 80km / h and I changed the engine qs273 without changing the parameter I am at 100 km / h

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13652
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by John in CR » Mar 25 2019 9:10am

My HubMonster powered MadAss based ebike will do over 170kph. How much over I don't even know, maybe even a bit over 180kph if I can get in a good enough tuck, though I may have to redo my kickstand a foot peg assembly as well as install a small fairing to reach 180. FWIW I don't run field weakening or any type of overspeed.
MadAss sml.JPG
MadAss sml.JPG (116.54 KiB) Viewed 425 times

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13652
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by John in CR » Mar 25 2019 9:12am

minde28383 wrote:
Mar 13 2019 4:12pm
If you after efficiency than use low Kv hub and run it high voltage battery, over 100v. But you won't reach 94%.
According simulator low Kv hub is slightly more efficient compared with high Kv hub.
Wrong. Please don't post nonsense like that in this thread.

Armicb   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov 27 2014 4:00pm

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by Armicb » Mar 26 2019 2:47am

Now I´ve done it right: see the pictures. As you can see there is no wear in the discs...
Attachments
Motor 1.jpeg
Motor 2.jpeg
Motor 3.jpeg

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13652
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by John in CR » Mar 26 2019 9:12am

Armicb,

Unless you marked them, you're going to have a tough time figuring out which set of halls go to which set of phases. FWIW, the motor will run either way, but the 3° advance of having them wrong will reduce torque and increase sound and heat. It will get a bit higher kv with them wrong, so that's one way to figure it out. The motor runs fine on just half, so do one controller at a time.

larsb   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 939
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by larsb » Mar 26 2019 1:16pm

John in CR wrote:
Mar 25 2019 9:10am
My HubMonster powered MadAss based ebike will do over 170kph
Cheesus, what kV are these hubs?
And were the scooters speed restricted originally, they weren't sold with those kinds of speeds? What battery original, what battery do you have John?
Ride on :D

User avatar
minde28383   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 469
Joined: Apr 02 2010 7:11am

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by minde28383 » Mar 26 2019 4:04pm

John in CR wrote:
Mar 25 2019 9:12am
minde28383 wrote:
Mar 13 2019 4:12pm
If you after efficiency than use low Kv hub and run it high voltage battery, over 100v. But you won't reach 94%.
According simulator low Kv hub is slightly more efficient compared with high Kv hub.
Wrong. Please don't post nonsense like that in this thread.
Not sure what you didn't like so much but it must be something enormously hudge.
ebike build in progress
CN 5.5kw scooter (on sale)
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (on sale)

larsb   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 939
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by larsb » Mar 26 2019 6:19pm

I guess it was that you recommended something incorrect?
Ride on :D

User avatar
minde28383   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 469
Joined: Apr 02 2010 7:11am

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by minde28383 » Mar 26 2019 6:39pm

Don't know. Can't answer that.
ebike build in progress
CN 5.5kw scooter (on sale)
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (on sale)

larsb   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 939
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by larsb » Mar 27 2019 12:46am

Yes, efficiency is not related to kV or voltage, but it's offtopic in this thread. If you want to then search for "the myth" thread
Ride on :D

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13652
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by John in CR » Mar 27 2019 1:04am

larsb wrote:
Mar 26 2019 1:16pm
John in CR wrote:
Mar 25 2019 9:10am
My HubMonster powered MadAss based ebike will do over 170kph
Cheesus, what kV are these hubs?
And were the scooters speed restricted originally, they weren't sold with those kinds of speeds? What battery original, what battery do you have John?
18rpm/v . The factory scoots were too heavy to run high current and high voltage, so they ran 60V or 72V. I'm running 115V nominal with a 20.5" OD tire. Current is 135A peak from each controller, which requires my air cooling mods that generally keep the stator less than 70°C. When I ride really hard it goes to 90° or so, and as high as 100°C on long really steep mountain ascents.

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13652
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by John in CR » Mar 27 2019 1:21am

larsb wrote:
Mar 27 2019 12:46am
Yes, efficiency is not related to kV or voltage, but it's offtopic in this thread. If you want to then search for "the myth" thread
Actually, because cogging losses are mostly fixed, increasing voltage commonly increases the peak efficiency of the motor. That doesn't necessarily mean in real use that you can achieve that peak efficiency, but that's because wind resistance increases geometrically, so peak motor efficiency may never be achieved. You can verify this effect playing around with Miles' motor spreadsheet, which demonstrates that HubMonster has a peak efficiency at the voltages I run of almost 96%.

While peak efficiency isn't a very meaningful number in and of itself. It's the best indicator or motor quality, because of what it takes to reach high efficiency. That is a combination of low winding resistance and low no-load losses, which are both required to achieve high torque and high speed. The less heat you make, the higher power you can run.

larsb   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 939
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by larsb » Mar 27 2019 1:20pm

Cogging losses: do you mean the losses due to torque ripple? Should be proportional to torque level?

No load losses (if that's what you mean) are related to rpm, so for a fixed hub kV there is an optimum rpm and voltage, not "higher is better"

Do you mean something else?
Ride on :D

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13652
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw rated $587

Post by John in CR » Mar 27 2019 6:18pm

larsb wrote:
Mar 27 2019 1:20pm
Cogging losses: do you mean the losses due to torque ripple? Should be proportional to torque level?

No load losses (if that's what you mean) are related to rpm, so for a fixed hub kV there is an optimum rpm and voltage, not "higher is better"

Do you mean something else?
There's a portion of the iron losses that I think Justin called cogging losses, which start at low rpm and quickly flatten out. Above that point the iron losses increase in a generally linear manner with rpm. I could very well be incorrect in the terminology, but it's something quite noticeable any time you try to pedal through an unpowered DD hubbie. Maybe cogging torque is what he called it. In any event, it's something that plateaus and has to be overcome just to spin a motor. The result in terms of peak efficiency, which is the point where iron losses and copper losses are equal, is that up to a certain point peak efficiency of a motor increases slightly with voltage.

Post Reply