Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

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damancalldan   1 mW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by damancalldan » Mar 20 2019 6:22pm

Hey everyone,

I'm an old stealth bomber owner who sold and while back... what a mistake that was! Anyway im keen on building with the FUTR alpha frame :) I'm hoping to be able to run the larger battery frame with a 250W hub motor - has anyone done this? Is a 250W motor weaker than say a 3000W motor? Or is it that the max speed is lower and will have the same acceleration as a more Watt motor?

Although I felt like Batman riding around the CBD of melbourne I want a road legal bike this time :P

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Mar 20 2019 6:38pm

damancalldan wrote:
Mar 20 2019 6:22pm
Hey everyone,

I'm an old stealth bomber owner who sold and while back... what a mistake that was! Anyway im keen on building with the FUTR alpha frame :) I'm hoping to be able to run the larger battery frame with a 250W hub motor - has anyone done this? Is a 250W motor weaker than say a 3000W motor? Or is it that the max speed is lower and will have the same acceleration as a more Watt motor?

Although I felt like Batman riding around the CBD of melbourne I want a road legal bike this time :P
I think stealth now offers their P7 model similar to futr beta as a street legal 250w version..

also surron moped homolgated version is now available in AU : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1450668
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

cheeko   100 W

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by cheeko » Mar 20 2019 7:06pm

damancalldan wrote:
Mar 20 2019 6:22pm
Hey everyone,

I'm an old stealth bomber owner who sold and while back... what a mistake that was! Anyway im keen on building with the FUTR alpha frame :) I'm hoping to be able to run the larger battery frame with a 250W hub motor - has anyone done this? Is a 250W motor weaker than say a 3000W motor? Or is it that the max speed is lower and will have the same acceleration as a more Watt motor?

Although I felt like Batman riding around the CBD of melbourne I want a road legal bike this time :P
I would go the Beta, its lighter and battery be massive enough for 250w or even 500W better for hills etc
24s5P Futr Beta Mxus3k New Controller coming

damancalldan   1 mW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by damancalldan » Mar 20 2019 7:25pm

Thanks for the replies

I was hoping to pretty much build a Bomber but with a slightly smaller battery and so I can put the controller inside the frame. And some upgraded parts:

250W motor (at least initially... but if it doesn't have enough power ill upgrade).
DVO jade coil rear shock
DVO emerald inverted front forks
Sr Suntour Vboxx
Protaper handlebars

8)

\ (•◡•) /   1 W

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by \ (•◡•) / » Mar 21 2019 12:07am

damancalldan wrote:
Mar 20 2019 7:25pm
Thanks for the replies

I was hoping to pretty much build a Bomber but with a slightly smaller battery and so I can put the controller inside the frame. And some upgraded parts:

250W motor (at least initially... but if it doesn't have enough power ill upgrade).
DVO jade coil rear shock
DVO emerald inverted front forks
Sr Suntour Vboxx
Protaper handlebars

8)
I don't want to discourage you but i'll point out some errors I can see in hopes of saving you some troubles and expenses.
Firstly the DVO Emerald forks use a tapered steerer, the FUTR's have straight steerers, so you'll need a hope converter headset cup to make it work, so if buying those forks check the steerer will be long enough.
secondly once again I don't want to discourage you and while I'd love to see it happen, it not sure that you'll ever get a Vboxx in the FUTR frames, the bomber uses the Vboxx as the pivot point between the swing arm and frame body. So it'll be very hard to implement it in a FUTR frame.
A FUTR alpha with downhill forks, motorcycle handlebars etc. will look enough like a motorcycle every cop will look at you anyway, so if you wanted to go the 250w route I'd recommend instead buying a used MTB and installing it on that, it'll cost you a quarter the money and go much faster. 250W with all those downhill bike parts on a FUTR will be a heavy bike with much less power than these frames were designed for.
if you instead go for a mid drive on a MTB you'll get your 250w, the same amount of gears as the vboxx and less weight, or you could even do this with the FUTR Beta frame if you still wanted a FUTR frame.
Hope this helps - and don't let me discourage you, just hoping to warn you of a difficult journey, but everything is possible.

damancalldan   1 mW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by damancalldan » Mar 21 2019 12:36am

Thanks I appreciate the red flags!

I've just started looking at parts and perhaps its best to just buy straight from stealth - just not as fun though :twisted:

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 21 2019 2:26am

So as promised, here is how I made what I think is the biggest Alpha battery to date. :)


Enjoy!

Feedback welcome. :)

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

\ (•◡•) /   1 W

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by \ (•◡•) / » Mar 21 2019 3:24am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Mar 21 2019 2:26am
So as promised, here is how I made what I think is the biggest Alpha battery to date. :)


Enjoy!

Feedback welcome. :)

Cheers
Wow!, and I thought my 2.52Kwh battery was big!, That thing looks beautiful :). those are the 3500Mah Sanyo's right?, did you have to buy a charger?, if you know someone you can borrow a 18s charger from i'd imagine you could just give it an initial charge which would last for the lifetime of the bike.
Seriously though that things incredible, it's amazing to see that many cells in an alpha, i'd imagine well over 100km range on that :bigthumb:
Great work

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 21 2019 3:48am

\ (•◡•) / wrote:
Mar 21 2019 3:24am
Wow!, and I thought my 2.52Kwh battery was big!, That thing looks beautiful :). those are the 3500Mah Sanyo's right?, did you have to buy a charger?, if you know someone you can borrow a 18s charger from i'd imagine you could just give it an initial charge which would last for the lifetime of the bike.
Seriously though that things incredible, it's amazing to see that many cells in an alpha, i'd imagine well over 100km range on that :bigthumb:
Great work
Thanks!
Yeah it's a monster alright...kinda makes me wish I hadn't sold my Alpha as unique as it already was, now with this giant battery it will be even more special. I don't think the guy who bought it and this battery really gets how special it all is, but I'm not gonna complain...he at least recognises the true cost and was willing to stump up the cash to get it, unlike so many others.
Btw, he paid 3k + shipping for the pack. That might sound like a lot, but after parts and my time are factored in I got less than $20 p/h to build...almost not worth it compared to the living costs in Australia right now.

So yeah they are the 3500Mah Sanyos. I sold my only 75V charger when I sold the Alpha, so my only way to charge it was through the balance taps using my BC168 one 6S group at a time...took for ever!!!

I told the guy it should have a good 150km range if ridden gentle. I reckon I could squeeze 200km out of it easy riding at <500W, but most of the time that's not gonna happen. :D

Thanks again...if anyone else want's a pack built the same I might consider it, but will probably have to increase the price a bit next time to really make it worth it.

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 21 2019 10:52am

Damn CD, thats a huge pack. Range anxiety Be Gone!!!!!

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia

Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 22 2019 2:39am

Rix wrote:
Mar 21 2019 10:52am
Damn CD, thats a huge pack. Range anxiety Be Gone!!!!!
Yup, that's what he wanted and asked for, so I crammed the max possible capacity in there with current cells. Until they release an 18650 cell larger than 3500mah (true capacity) and at least 10amp capable you will not see more capacity in an Alpha. 8)

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Mar 22 2019 4:10am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Mar 21 2019 2:26am
So as promised, here is how I made what I think is the biggest Alpha battery to date. :)


Enjoy!

Feedback welcome. :)

Cheers
Ok this was a really interesting way to glue them, not sure why you did it this way as it is way time consuming.(ok can se that you have capton between the groups thats why) I usually take the whole row of(in your case) 16 cells and then glue 7 rows of those 16 together.
And also have the balance nickel lead on the outside so you dont have to open up the pack every time you solder the balance leads.

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 22 2019 5:28am

That's a neat way of tackling the cell gluing Allex, and one I hadn't thought of. Thanks for the tip...maybe that will save me a heap of time and make this more worthwhile in future.
The only catch is no short protection between parallel groups. Maybe a double heatshrink on each cell would fix that, but would add a lot of work.

I'm guessing you haven't had any shorts between parallel groups yet?
I admit it's pretty unlikely, but still scares the hell out of me so really want to avoid it.

Also a neat way of tackling the balance taps. I don't know if I would have had the space on the side of this pack to fit tabs like that, but certainly a tip I will use in future for other packs. Thanks!

I notice you have 10 parallel groups in that photo...does that fit in an Alpha? If so, I might have to eat my words about my build being the highest capacity you can fit in one...anyone for a 20S14P / 74V / 49AH / 3.6Kwh pack! :shock: :lol:

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Mar 22 2019 5:36am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Mar 22 2019 5:28am
That's a neat way of tackling the cell gluing Allex, and one I hadn't thought of. Thanks for the tip...maybe that will save me a heap of time and make this more worthwhile in future.
The only catch is no short protection between parallel groups. Maybe a double heatshrink on each cell would fix that, but would add a lot of work.

I'm guessing you haven't had any shorts between parallel groups yet?
I admit it's pretty unlikely, but still scares the hell out of me so really want to avoid it.

Also a neat way of tackling the balance taps. I don't know if I would have had the space on the side of this pack to fit tabs like that, but certainly a tip I will use in future for other packs. Thanks!

I notice you have 10 parallel groups in that photo...does that fit in an Alpha? If so, I might have to eat my words about my build being the highest capacity you can fit in one...anyone for a 20S14P / 74V / 49AH / 3.6Kwh pack! :shock: :lol:

Cheers
If you enclose the pack properly with textolite and heatshrink on top the pack itself will be very rigid. Also use good protection against the frame so it does not vibrate or rub on anything then the short will never be an issue, much because as long as the whole pack is rigid the glue itself will still not let the cells rub against each other to the point where you damage the cell heat shrink.
I only have the balance taps on the side when doing hamburger style packs for easier access when soldering.
Cant remember what I built this pack for so cannot rally say if it will fit the Alpha.

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 22 2019 5:53am

You make some good points Allex. I might try building my next pack this way. Thanks for the tips. :)

Where the hell can I get some textolite?
Is it called something else?

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Mar 22 2019 8:15am

Its Fiberglass
So something like this
https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecommerce/ ... ?cat_id=67

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Lash   100 W

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Lash » Mar 23 2019 5:42am

Epic Battery build CD. Thats huge! What a long ranger.

I just did a quick edit of a little spin I went on today on the BETA MAC 12t. It actually goes a bit faster than I thought now that I gave the battery a good charge so 45-50 on the flat is achievable, even with little hills and wind, it really wants to push.

Great for this kind of offroad stuff when there is at least a bit of speed involved.



@damancalldan
I agree with the comments mentioned by \ (•◡•) / - you need to check all the parts compatibility. and 250w is really too low for these bike in my opinion, a 500w geared hub is the lowest id recommend. But yeah if your wanting to keep is street legal another bike may be the best option, or yeah the p7 or new p7r (similar to my bike) could be the way to go.

Let me know if your interested in a 1500w DD Beta bike, as I have one about to be listed.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 23 2019 11:41am

Lash wrote:
Mar 23 2019 5:42am
Epic Battery build CD. Thats huge! What a long ranger.

I just did a quick edit of a little spin I went on today on the BETA MAC 12t. It actually goes a bit faster than I thought now that I gave the battery a good charge so 45-50 on the flat is achievable, even with little hills and wind, it really wants to push.

Great for this kind of offroad stuff when there is at least a bit of speed involved.

[youtu

@damancalldan
I agree with the comments mentioned by \ (•◡•) / - you need to check all the parts compatibility. and 250w is really too low for these bike in my opinion, a 500w geared hub is the lowest id recommend. But yeah if your wanting to keep is street legal another bike may be the best option, or yeah the p7 or new p7r (similar to my bike) could be the way to go.

Let me know if your interested in a 1500w DD Beta bike, as I have one about to be listed.
Nice vid Lee, I don't know what Stealth did, but the P7R is fast. My Beta has a 12s battery, Mac10, and 30 amp controller running a 24"MTB wheel. Its top speed is 25MPH and gets there quick. Stealth is very tight lipped about their motor and controller combo for the P7R, but I know for a fact the battery is a 13s unit and peak power is rated at 1500 wats, with a MAC motor Gen5 unit. Anyway, I laced a 26MTB (Stock is 27.5") rim to their motor and in a flat out drag race, the P7R launches off the line quicker and tops out at 35MPH. I think if word gets out about the P7R, Stealth wont be able to keep up with demand.

PRW   10 kW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by PRW » Mar 24 2019 3:55am

Allex wrote:
Mar 22 2019 8:15am
Its Fiberglass
So something like this
https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecommerce/ ... ?cat_id=67
Allex,
I sent you a PM - can you have a look?
thanks
Peter

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Lash   100 W

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Lash » Mar 25 2019 5:44pm

Rix wrote:
Mar 23 2019 11:41am
Nice vid Lee, I don't know what Stealth did, but the P7R is fast. My Beta has a 12s battery, Mac10, and 30 amp controller running a 24"MTB wheel. Its top speed is 25MPH and gets there quick. Stealth is very tight lipped about their motor and controller combo for the P7R, but I know for a fact the battery is a 13s unit and peak power is rated at 1500 wats, with a MAC motor Gen5 unit. Anyway, I laced a 26MTB (Stock is 27.5") rim to their motor and in a flat out drag race, the P7R launches off the line quicker and tops out at 35MPH. I think if word gets out about the P7R, Stealth wont be able to keep up with demand.
I'd like to try out a p7R, and see how it goes. I saw a p7 in NZ recently in a shop and it definately looked like a MAC casing. I dont know much about motors really, but id say the best improvements can be made in the controller / config / software compared to id imagine a pretty much "as good as it can get" motor - barring some tesla tye R&D and costs.

So I wouldnt be surprised that stealth have an ASI 800 type controller (or vesc?) with all the bells n whistles (FOC) and kinks ironed out for sweet as delivery across its ideal power zones.

I'm just using a cheap chinese controller that does the job but I'm sure alots being left on the table compared to a step up in controller tech. I'll upgrade one day. Maybe even to a VESC if they get past that 60v limit.

I'm running a 14s battery, but I dont think the higher voltage is really needed as much with a 'torque speed' controller and the geared hubs. probably better off feeding it amps for these higher torque winds.

I think these geared motors spin so fast that the basic controllers cant keep up.

anyway i need to learn more about it all, but what you say indicates a hot ride from stock - the P7R would probably be my off the shelf choice for stealth urban shenanigans.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by papabless » Mar 28 2019 7:52am

where do you guys buy your bike frames and what would a build like this run me?

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 28 2019 9:41am

papabless wrote:
Mar 28 2019 7:52am
where do you guys buy your bike frames and what would a build like this run me?
http://www.futrelectricbike.com

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by papabless » Mar 29 2019 5:55am

Are there clones of these? Ive seen stealth bomner frames that sell for $300

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Mar 29 2019 12:07pm

papabless wrote:
Mar 29 2019 5:55am
Are there clones of these? Ive seen stealth bomner frames that sell for $300
don't cheap out on the frame, its the most important part of the bike..

there are no "clones" only similar style bikes but you get what you pay for..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Mar 29 2019 12:07pm

papabless wrote:
Mar 29 2019 5:55am
Are there clones of these? Ive seen stealth bomner frames that sell for $300
don't cheap out on the frame, its the most important part of the bike..

there are no "clones" only similar style bikes but you get what you pay for..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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