BionX

markz · Mar 31, 2019

Yeah the phase wires touching, probably internal vault of MOSFET as you looked at. Visuals can be deceiving. You were on the right track, ditching the internal controller.

I myself have only seen one or two Bionx in the wild, plus I had ridden one years ago at a bicycle dealership here in Calgary, Bowness Cycle. I was thrilled about the e-ride, but shocked at the price. Fast forward 5-8 yrs later, I found Endless Sphere, and I studied and asked questions for a year before I purchased my mxus 3kw, a lyen 18fet cont, and a cycle analyst which I never really used aside from one time. The Bionx I mentioned seeing, I was e-riding coming from the river pathway system, into a community and found this guy coming off a sideroad, I was in front. We get to the light, and a few questions from him as I keep to myself. The one question that stuck out was that he mentioned if my ebike had a governer, I laughed and said no. You must realize that I dont make my ebikes look neat as I have wires showing and a big battery in the triangle, usually duct taped with a metal zip tie, and norm zip ties. The question he asked I still remember. Is your ebike governed. Its custom, over powered and easily dissipates heat. I have never used it to its full potential as I like 36V and 48V systems. I am on 15S now, but its far to fast for my liking. I was thinking this just yesterday, as I have read this thread before, and I was thinking about BionX and its unique motor/wheel design and I thought wouldnt it be cool to have the entire wheel, the motor. The leverage the motor would have!

Just a rambling thought on my part too :wink:

After a recent test on my dyno, the BionX P series motor finally "blew" something, possibly on the internal controller, which resulted in the hub motor subject to heavy resistance to spinning freely ("cogging").

Cephalotus · Apr 1, 2019

rowbiker said:
I have used both the Grin and BionX regen features for several years and have found the Grin system to be more reliable and flexible. I have used both of these systems on 'rowbikes' (see rowbike.com), not diamond frame 'upright' bikes so the comparison to 'normal' bikes may be flawed.

... The Grin used both Grinfineon and Phaserunner controllers, with a preference for the Phaserunner, all other things being equal. Variable regen on the Grin setup is handled with 'stock' gripshift throttles, both resistance (Magura) and cheap chinese (Hall effect), giving 'infinite' control in the regen voltage range (0 to ~0.84V).

good to know. I ordered the whole package with Phaserunner, CA3.1, torque sensor, AUX Poti, AUX Digi buttons, throttle, solar shunt, GPS Analogger and so on.
Will use it with an (yet unnamed?) small 3.2kg direct drive rear hub motor.

Plan is to configure the throttle for proportional power assist (idealy only available while pedaling, which could be impossible with CA3.1), using the poti for control over motor assist 0-500% proportional to human power and the dig buttons for limit of power, lets say 0W, 200W, ..., 1000W.
Idealy it would be -600W, -400W,... 0W, ...800W, 1000W including some regen modes. (Even better would be to be able to programm each step on its own, a -10W setting is nice to keep the lights on with an empty battery for example) This is available with BionX, but maybe nor with CA3.1 or do you know a solution for that.

(For a solar setup I would need to discard the Poti and set the digi buttons for proportional assist)

As far as I understand proportional regen via brake sensor is only available via Phaserunenr directly, but not via CA3.1? Would be nice if I am wrong.
Afaik there is also no limit to maximum regen, which is not ideal as protection for all the electronics.

Efficiency has to tested. BionX works quite well from ca. 6km/h to 60km/h which is nice.

I have followed your comments on the German forums as well as here on ES (I'm a native german living in the US for a long time), so I'm very familiar with your demonstrated expertise on the subject of BionX, as well as ebikes in general. Since you said you'll be trying the Grin system, I'm going to be *extremely* interested in your observations!

I own lots of BionX stuff. That makes me hardly an expert.
I'm very interested how the GRIN setup turns out, too. I plan to build two almost identical bikes, one with BionX and one with Phaserunner, CA3.1 & Co for comparison...

Reason for paying out such amount of money (more than for a BionX setup) is to have a Pedelec that is better serviceable while travelling. If a MOSFet fails in a BionX motor you are screwed and usually stuck with an unmovable rear wheel. I also like the solar features.

Cephalotus · Apr 1, 2019

markz said:
The Bionx I mentioned seeing, I was e-riding coming from the river pathway system, into a community and found this guy coming off a sideroad, I was in front. We get to the light, and a few questions from him as I keep to myself. The one question that stuck out was that he mentioned if my ebike had a governer, I laughed and said no...

The main market for BionX was most likely the EU. There have been sold 1 million new Pedelec in Germany alone during 2018. 99,5% of those have been Pedelec with a speed limit of 25km/h, only 0.5% have been Speed pedelec.
For legal reasons you have to seel your systems with a 25km/h limit, if you ride an electric motorbike (not Pedelece) without insurnace that's considered a criminal activty over here and you pay thousands of Euro. if you are involved in an accident you lack any insurance and have to pay out of your own pockets if needed to the end of your life.

We have a different relation to insurance over here compared to people in the US.

The governor is not a technical limit. BionX d-Series runs ouround 50km/h on a 48V battery, the old 500HS is able to run up to 70km/h (but gets hot very quickly).
You need the software to remove that speed limit. (and you have to live with the consequences).

I ride some street legal speed pedelecs with insurance and so I limit those BionX to 45km/h.

BionX is a system for people wanting a bicycle with electric assist (as millions of people prefer, over here), if you want to build yourself a 3kW motorcycle better lock elsewhere. You don't need sophisticated torque sensing or low cogging oor compatibility with standard gear systems with such an ebike, because human power is mostly irrelevant, just a throttle.

Problem for BionX: They failed in the Pedelec market because of bad quality problems and bad service during 2011 and 2012 and once burnt all the large customers never came back. Some people say that BionX not only killed themselves but the entire mass market for hub motors in Germany. 1 million Pedelec sold in Germany in 2018 are now almost exclusively equipped with mid drives.

I assume it is similar in most other EU countries.

Cephalotus · Apr 1, 2019

rowbiker said:
The OEM I partner with attempted to make the BionX system an e-assist option on our line of bikes. We eventually became a BionX "dealer" to facilitate the testing of BionX products on our prototypes. This included a licensed version of the "BBI" and the dealer configuration/setup software. I used this extensively during efforts to make the BionX components work effectively on our bikes.

There are limits on very raw data which needs acces to the firmware. I assume assist for a rowbike needs some special firmware. they made motors for handbikes and boats, so it should be possible, technically.

... as well as it did using only the adjustments available to dealers via the BBI and accompanying setup software.

If you have only the dealer Software you are quite limited.

Do you have access to the "debug" and "programm special firmware" options in your BionX Software?

For G2 systems it should look like that:

for RC3 something like that:

You should be able to see something like set and than you have access to all parameters (hundreds of parameters) that BionX itself can adjust quickly.

In theory it would be nice to write my own firmware (there is an uploader available), but this is far beyond my capabilities.

However, I recently attempted to use the original BBI and our dealer software (the original installation was on a Toshiba laptop running WinXP Pro), and a litany of software failures ensued. As best as I could gather, the program decided it needed to 'phone home' to the BionX online servers, which are apparently permanently 'down' and therefore not accessible. The software says basically 'try again later'. After many attempts, including re-installing the software and manually copying missing *.dll files, I finally gave up....

I know this is a very rambling post, but in the absence of an official BionX presence, you may very well be currently the world's best available resource for objective BionX expertise, so I'd be a fool not to ask this question: "Any suggestions?"

There is a ZIP file with a offline version of the BionX software as shown above in the screenshot. It's 65MB, so maybe a bit to large to send via Email and may not pass your virus scanner. You have to manually set back the date of your computer not later than 30 days after the last download version (11/18)

markz · Apr 1, 2019

I really wished I knew what wattage the motor was that I rode at Bowness Cycle. I knew I loved it, but I hated the expensive price. I went about 2 or 3km and up a little hill, I had the e grin right away, but I never dropped a dime on anything e for years. It just never clicked in because I was so addicted to driving.

rowbiker · Apr 1, 2019

Cephalotus said:
good to know. I ordered the whole package with Phaserunner, CA3.1, torque sensor, AUX Poti, AUX Digi buttons, throttle, solar shunt, GPS Analogger and so on.
Will use it with an (yet unnamed?) small 3.2kg direct drive rear hub motor.

Plan is to configure the throttle for proportional power assist (idealy only available while pedaling, which could be impossible with CA3.1), using the poti for control over motor assist 0-500% proportional to human power and the dig buttons for limit of power, lets say 0W, 200W, ..., 1000W.
Idealy it would be -600W, -400W,... 0W, ...800W, 1000W including some regen modes. (Even better would be to be able to programm each step on its own, a -10W setting is nice to keep the lights on with an empty battery for example) This is available with BionX, but maybe nor with CA3.1 or do you know a solution for that.

(For a solar setup I would need to discard the Poti and set the digi buttons for proportional assist)

As far as I understand proportional regen via brake sensor is only available via Phaserunenr directly, but not via CA3.1? Would be nice if I am wrong.
Afaik there is also no limit to maximum regen, which is not ideal as protection for all the electronics.

Efficiency has to tested. BionX works quite well from ca. 6km/h to 60km/h which is nice.

I am not an expert on the CA firmware, but my experience with it over the last 6 years or so has convinced me that there's very little that can't be accomplished with it -- and if it can't today, it may well be possible tomorrow. If the answer isn't available in teklektik's "manual" or on this forum, a well formed question will generate great info. I know you are a senior member of this forum, so you obviously know all this. I use a CA for all our prototypes, and when a feature can be enabled in both/either the CA and/or the controller (like regen), I generally implement the desired behavior in the CA since the configuration is usually easier. For my projects I generally set the firmware to a "pass through" throttle, which gives me lots of options. By way of example, on one of our current Rowbike projects, I'm using a CA running a beta "Skateboard" firmware kindly provided by Justin. It just happens to have the right features for utilizing the strain gauges on our rowing lever. I can't imagine being able to pull this off with any other ebike manufacturer out there, so that's just an example of why I'm a Grin fan. Ironically, I'll probably be using the 'genericized' BionX (internal controller removed) hub motor I'm now working on for this setup.

I'm very interested how the GRIN setup turns out, too. I plan to build two almost identical bikes, one with BionX and one with Phaserunner, CA3.1 & Co for comparison...

Please continue to post your findings--I know there are many of us here on ES who will follow this very closely. Had he been given the right opportunity, I'm fairly certain that Justin would have been extremely helpful in providing existing BionX users find a positive way forward in utilizing their significant investments. We all had hoped that someone would have been able to pick up and continue the BionX line after its liquidation.

Reason for paying out such amount of money (more than for a BionX setup) is to have a Pedelec that is better serviceable while travelling. If a MOSFet fails in a BionX motor you are screwed and usually stuck with an unmovable rear wheel. I also like the solar features.

The ability to service and control the configuration of our prototype vehicles is critical because we are constantly changing our designs in response to learning new things -- what works well, and what doesn't. We end up having to design and build enough components as it is, so anytime we can get a part 'off-the-shelf' to serve our needs is an advantage. We have yet to have any Grin manufactured part fail, which is surprising since we "test" (abuse) our prototypes to find performance limits. When we review our expenditures on ebike components including all factors, Grin products have been a genuine bargain so far.

rowbiker · Apr 1, 2019

Cephalotus said:
There are limits on very raw data which needs acces to the firmware. I assume assist for a rowbike needs some special firmware. they made motors for handbikes and boats, so it should be possible, technically.

There was little doubt in my mind that the BionX system could technically have worked well enough on our rowbikes, but we just didn't have the access to the firmware that we needed to make the necessary adjustments and 'tweaks' that these projects always require.

If you have only the dealer Software you are quite limited.

Do you have access to the "debug" and "programm special firmware" options in your BionX Software?

We had only the dealer software and some suggestions from their engineers, but it just didn't go far enough for our needs.

There is a ZIP file with a offline version of the BionX software as shown above in the screenshot. It's 65MB, so maybe a bit to large to send via Email and may not pass your virus scanner. You have to manually set back the date of your computer not later than 30 days after the last download version (11/18)

While having decided, for now at least, to remove the (suspected) broken internal controller from the BionX 350W motor and run it with a Phaserunner instead, I'd still like to follow up on the BionX firmware on other BionX items we have. We run our own email server (I'm "hj@tringa.com") so I don't think size is a problem, so if at all possible I'd love to get my hands on the BionX software that you're referring to above.

Cephalotus · Apr 2, 2019

markz said:
I really wished I knew what wattage the motor was that I rode at Bowness Cycle.

All 48V BionX Systems use the same 48V 30A controllers built in. No matter the label on the outside. There is some throtteling of power, either in relation to the human power applied (if you don't use the throttle) and some themal throtteling when the motor + controller overheat. So continous power is a lot lower than peak power, especially when riding rather slowly uphill.

I knew I loved it, but I hated the expensive price.

Imho the price is okay for what you get. The main Problem is reliability. Many People Need to replace an expensive part like the Batery or the Motor drive when even only a minor fault occurs.

Most Motors and the battary are serviceable, but you Need to know what you do.

I feared that I would end with no functional batteries in the future so I bought half a docend BionX 48V BMS just in case. They did cost me 100€ each which I think is okay.
I started to use BionX in 2013 (when they OEM sold their BionX bikes for very cheap money after switching to Bosch & Co) and 6 years and thousands of km later all my BionX Motors still run fine.
My girlfriend killed one display dropping it several times (still works as a Controller , but you can't see half of it). From what I read I have been lucky so far, but I also do not force it.
I Limit the current to 25A which is perfectly adaquate for my needs, I can see the temepratur in the display and know the Status of thermal throtteling, a made some additions to the shitty freewheels for my SL Motors, I don't use an abundance of oil on my chain which often kills the sensor on the axle, I know how to tghten my nuts, I don't ride heavy offrode un uphill I know that I have to pedal significantly on my own. I also weight only 75kg at 182cm, my girlfried weights less. All such things help.

Usual custumors have not much knowledge how to use a BionX System and what to avoid and just ride them and don't care much. They are understandably quite pissed of when their 800€ motor fails.
My fear is that my BionX D Motors will die sooner or later and those are really expensive (so we only have 5 of them) and almost not available in used conditions. Problem with those is the spokes pressing on the housing and if that gets to hot it may get deformed which often results in a unreaperable failure.
So I limit my BionX D mainly to my Speed pedelecs where they are most usefull and use the SL motors in our 25km/h pedelecs.

Cephalotus · Apr 2, 2019

rowbiker said:
Please continue to post your findings--I know there are many of us here on ES who will follow this very closely. Had he been given the right opportunity, I'm fairly certain that Justin would have been extremely helpful in providing existing BionX users find a positive way forward in utilizing their significant investments. We all had hoped that someone would have been able to pick up and continue the BionX line after its liquidation.

For me the most interesting aspect would be to use the BionX DS3 Display and the BionX RC3 controllers.

BionX is bancrupt, but maybe there is a Company (in China?) that made those and can do it again?

The RC3 offers 6 Buttons for on/off, light, "left" and "right" (as on the CA3 itself) and "up" and "down" like on the Digi AUX Buttons plus an throttle and some led for power assist and battery Status. All the size of a simple Chinese 2 button Setup.
The Display can Show plenty of info in various colors. You need only one CAN bus connector (sadly the Hirose HR30 is not avilable anymore, it is a good connector imho) and the setup is small, nice and perfectly waterproof.

Those are "stupid" devices, they only Need commands from CAN bus, but this is far beyond my own ablities.

The thing I hate most with the "open source" standard setups is the abundance of cables and (oftne not waterproof) connectors and the clumsy lucking Input devices. Here BionX has been 30 years ahaed. The bad side is the price and if something fails it is difficult bis impossible to repair. But for going on a trip I would just take some sparte parts. DS3 weights 42g, RC3 weights 41g.

But most likey this is only a very small niche and so it will never happen. For the BionX Motors a external per Controller would be intersting. With the newer BionX Firmware all of the "intelligence" sits into the BionX Motor and both the battery and the RC3/DS3 are just stupid CAN devices. It should be possible to make a CAN Controller that can use the BionX Controller with standard eqipment. There should be x-thousands of those PL and SL Motors avaiable and usally you can buy them used for something like 200 Euro incl. a wheel. 200€ for a used "1000W" motor with a nice street legal labeling incl. "torque" sensor and incl. a 48V 30A Controller is not expensive imho.
You have to life with that freewheel if you have the old BionX motors, so they are not so usefull for strong offroad riders, because those destroy freewheels quickly.

The ability to service and control the configuration of our prototype vehicles is critical because we are constantly changing our designs in response to learning new things -- what works well, and what doesn't. We end up having to design and build enough components as it is, so anytime we can get a part 'off-the-shelf' to serve our needs is an advantage. We have yet to have any Grin manufactured part fail, which is surprising since we "test" (abuse) our prototypes to find performance limits. When we review our expenditures on ebike components including all factors, Grin products have been a genuine bargain so far.

This sounds good.

I look forward to learn more about those systems when actaully using them over the comming months and can contribute something...

2old · Apr 2, 2019

Not to change the subject, but the 500D kit sold for $2,000 locally with free installation. This seemed like a very reasonable price since the kit came with a three year all inclusive warranty. The systems were set for 28 mph which is legal for a PAS bike in CA (but confined to "paths" which are contiguous with a street). As indicated earlier, they were far more impressive than any OEM bike I've ridden.

Cephalotus · Apr 9, 2019

I uploaded the BBI2 "offline version" to:

https://www.file-upload.net/download-13565807/1811_BBI_2offline.zip.html

(roughly 65MB)

The development licence is in the "Update Lizenz Offline" folder. This is the bbi.db file

Usually this file is in C:/user/XXX/AppData/Roaming/BionX/

XXX is your username (administrator)
Folder AppData usually is hidden

Replace the bbi.de with the version from the ZIP file (make a copy of your own one)

This bbi.db is from November 2018. Before starting bbi2.exe from your program folder you need to go offline and manually set back your system time to sometime early November 2018. Maybe 10/11/18 will work (I use an older version, so can't tell you the exact date). You ca try as often as you want, this routine is not destructive if you chose the wrong time.

When starting BBI2 ignore the message that an update is not possible.

All options are available if you enable the debug mode in the tools section. Use them on your own risc.

Maybe you try setting back your system date first
If this doesn't work try to replace the license file
If this doesn't work replace all BionX files from the self extracting file

A typical software installation process is not required to "install" BionX Bike Interface 2. Just copy the entire program folder, replace the bbi.db file, go offline, set back your system time and start the program. Enable Debug mode for all fetaures.

++++

Disclaimer: I didn't make that files available. This credit goes to someone else. I just uploaded a copy.

rowbiker · Apr 9, 2019

Thanks Cephalotus for uploading the file. I've downloaded the zip file and will follow your instructions as to the installation.

Stilo · Apr 12, 2019

Cephalotus said:
I uploaded the BBI2 "offline version" to:

https://www.file-upload.net/download-13565807/1811_BBI_2offline.zip.html

(roughly 65MB)

The development licence is in the "Update Lizenz Offline" folder. This is the bbi.db file

Usually this file is in C:/user/XXX/AppData/Roaming/BionX/

XXX is your username (administrator)
Folder AppData usually is hidden

Replace the bbi.de with the version from the ZIP file (make a copy of your own one)

This bbi.db is from November 2018. Before starting bbi2.exe from your program folder you need to go offline and manually set back your system time to sometime early November 2018. Maybe 10/11/18 will work (I use an older version, so can't tell you the exact date). You ca try as often as you want, this routine is not destructive if you chose the wrong time.

When starting BBI2 ignore the message that an update is not possible.

All options are available if you enable the debug mode in the tools section. Use them on your own risc.

Maybe you try setting back your system date first
If this doesn't work try to replace the license file
If this doesn't work replace all BionX files from the self extracting file

A typical software installation process is not required to "install" BionX Bike Interface 2. Just copy the entire program folder, replace the bbi.db file, go offline, set back your system time and start the program. Enable Debug mode for all fetaures.

++++

Disclaimer: I didn't make that files available. This credit goes to someone else. I just uploaded a copy.

"All options are available if you enable the debug mode in the tools section. Use them on your own risc."

How do I set this up?Thank you.

Stilo · Apr 12, 2019

Cephalotus said:
https://www.file-upload.net/download-13565807/1811_BBI_2offline.zip.html

(roughly 65MB)

Hi! I downloaded the BBI2 software from this link.But I can,t set up all options that's looks like in this picture:

How can I setup this options ?Thank you.

Cephalotus · Apr 12, 2019

Stilo77 said:
How do I set this up?Thank you.

I noticed that the 99-debug_pack.bcb file in the main folder is missing.

Sorry, I assumed that this version offers all features.

I attached the missing file as a zip. Unzip it and place it in the main folder where you extracted the BBI2 software and where other bcb files like 99-tech_pack.bcp are already located.

Start your BBI software again, go to the Tool symbol and enable debug mode.

Is it available now?

Stilo · Apr 13, 2019

Thank you very match Cephalotus! Now it is working.

Cephalotus · Apr 13, 2019

Stilo77 said:
Thank you very match Cephalotus! Now it is working.

Well done, welcome to the BionX world

Maybe you can tell us what system date setting does work with that license version?

If you now have access to the debug mode I will introduce you to the program special firmware setting which can also be found there.

You have already found many .bcp files in the main folder.

Copy them to a different folder somewhere and rename them as a .zip file. You are able to extract them.

Inside them you will find bfp folders that contain various firmware versions for BionX components, usually tailored to individual OEMs.

The last standard firmware versions are available under 10-updater_pack

If you have a BionX DS3 display the latest official version is 4.0

In the 60-BionX-warrior_pack you will find a display-36-4.1.bfp file which gives you the version 4.1. This version includes a debug screen. You have to install the firmware and when you use the system press the light button 5 times quickly.
Enter the debug screen which shows you some nice details:

Example shows battery charging.

In the medical package you find a display version 4.128 that includes a v-max setting that should be able to override v-max setting in the motor.

Stilo · Apr 13, 2019

Cephalotus said:
Maybe you can tell us what system date setting does work with that license version?

Where exactly should this be read?
(My English is not good, unfortunately.)
Thanks for help.

Stilo · Apr 13, 2019

My other problem is the same as here

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=99379&p=1458067&hilit=bionx#p1458067)
My strain gauge sensor is not working. I don't know how to replace it.

Cephalotus · Apr 13, 2019

Stilo77 said:
Cephalotus said:

Maybe you can tell us what system date setting does work with that license version?

Click to expand...

Where exactly should this be read?
(My English is not good, unfortunately.)
Thanks for help.

As far as I know BionX software wants to update 30 days after installation. This is not possible any more because Bionx servers are down.
Therefor the BionX needs a faked date, based on the installation time hidden in the license file bbi.db.

I can only use it when I set back that date manually and use my PC offline.

I use a bit older license version, so I may date varies from the date you need to use for that version, at least this is what I believed. I assume that you have to set the date for this version to somewhere around November 2018.

Your PC still uses the actual date and the software works?

If so, I don't know why

Cephalotus · Apr 13, 2019

Stilo77 said:
My other problem is the same as herehttps://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=99379&p=1458067&hilit=bionx#p1458067)
My strain gauge sensor is not working. I don't know how to replace it.

Did you use to much oil on your chain?

Oil on the axcle will kill the gauge sensor. In 90% of all BionX systems with lose gauge sensors to much oil has been applied.

you have to unspoke the motor (at least one side), open it with a 3 arm puller and reglue the gauge sensor if it is still okay. If not you can buy a new gauge sensor and use that one.

Lots of work and needs some tools, but overall not expensive. If its an old motor you may replace the bearings, too, if it is open anyway.

Stilo · Apr 13, 2019

[/quote]
I use a bit older license version, so I may date varies from the date you need to use for that version, at least this is what I believed. I assume that you have to set the date for this version to somewhere around November 2018.
[/quote]

Yes, I also restored my pc's date by November 22, 2018,and I use the software in offline mod. So it works well.

Stilo · Apr 13, 2019

Cephalotus said:
Did you use to much oil on your chain?

I do"nt use much oil on chain.Once I tried to see how high the mountain could go up with my KTM BionX bike. And then I forced very much the pedals.

Stilo · Apr 13, 2019

Cephalotus said:
If not you can buy a new gauge sensor and use that one.

Can you give me a link where I can buy a new gauge sensor?Thanks.

Cephalotus · Apr 13, 2019

You need one with 350 Ohm. Don't know what's avialable in your part of the world.

You can find them cheap on ebay from China. Don't know about the quality.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Stks-BF350-Resistance-Strain-Gauge-Meter-Weighing-High-precision-Sensor/113505505991

It doesn't matter so much, because BionX measures not the absolute numbers, but the difference while pedaling.

More de tallied info can be found under: https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/versuche-defekten-dehnme%C3%9Fstreifen-zu-ersetzen.37663/ (in German)

BionX

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Attachments

10 kW

Attachments

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