New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Don t thinck it s a tsdz2, it look like a bafang or lingbei ...

No informations if it s a torque or just a pas inside .
Seem it s stronger than TSDZ2 as a BBS02 .

There is no other issue for a torque sensored motor exepted with bafang maxdrive, but it s difficult to find a frame with a cool price .
 
casainho said:
TSDZ2 / TongSheng new motor version??

Screenshot-from-2019-04-13-15-22-20.png


I just saw on PSWPower site, it is on category of TSDZ2 but has a different name... what you guys know / think??

See here: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2019-3p-953s
Click to expand...
What I see from the photos is added cooling fins, the plastic drive side cover is now part of the case. I gained a lot of room for chainline there before, but without measuring won't know if it's better or not. They went to a 44T chainring which is what I had to do to get a better chainline for a Shimano IGH build. This allowed the chainring to sit in past the pinion bump on the drive cover.
The spider is part of the chainring now, so no option to shim it in, just out unless you buy a spider adapter. The chainring/guard looks more like a Bafang part than the nice metal TS part. I wonder if it's a TS knockoff ?
I'm seeing BF in the part numbers for the brake and throttle parts.
 
casainho said:
I am asking this because Rydon is trying to test our firmware on that version and says it probably has the same controller. If it is different, well, then it will not work...
Click to expand...

Ah, I see... well I am certain as I said, not only that the controller was labelled different and wiring looked slightly different/different color scheme, but also that it would not work with other programming. I had to reprogram with the coaster brake model controller profile .s19/hex files to get it working again... the extent of the differences, I cannot say
 
casainho said:
TSDZ2 / TongSheng new motor version??

Screenshot-from-2019-04-13-15-22-20.png


I just saw on PSWPower site, it is on category of TSDZ2 but has a different name... what you guys know / think??

See here: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2019-3p-953s
Click to expand...

Manufacturer:

https://www.aikema.com.cn/en/product/MD-P250-02.html
 
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
TSDZ2 / TongSheng new motor version??

Screenshot-from-2019-04-13-15-22-20.png


I just saw on PSWPower site, it is on category of TSDZ2 but has a different name... what you guys know / think??

See here: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2019-3p-953s
Click to expand...

Manufacturer:

https://www.aikema.com.cn/en/product/MD-P250-02.html
Click to expand...
Thanks!!

I don't see any advantage over TSDZ2. TSDZ2 seems the only mid drive motor that has repair/spare parts available and cheap compared to others, like Bafang that has the motor controllers spares with prices 6x more than TSDZ2 controller.
 
Agreed... Not only are the TSDZ2 replacement parts cheap and available... They are the easiest to service compared to any mid drive I have used long term...

But 6x the price for a BBS controller is alot...i see them go for 120-150 delivered for retail, and about 50-70 for one TSDZ2 controller delivered retail... They are about 3x the price wholesale though...
 
Is a 250W version of the TSDZ2 available? And if so from where?
All I have found are 350W and more.
In the thread on the MW28.250, people seem to complain that the reliability of the TSDZ2 is low. How does it compare with a Bafang? Which would you buy? I like the idea of an open-source firmware, but I need to rely on my bicycle on a daily basis.

thanks
 
This is my stealth e-bike build. TSDZ2 52v with a 6ah mighty mini battery in the tail bag, 100mm fat bike adapter, VLCD-6 display and a 30t chain ring for hill climbing. The Framed Minnesota LTD was a great platform for the build. Decent specs for just under $1000 and the chain line worked well with the TS chainring and the 30t narrow wide chainring I bought from Electrify Bike Co. I bought the motor with the fat bike adapter pre-installed from Eco-Cycles (eyebyesickle) - great reseller BTW. I ran it with the metal gear for a while, but reinstalled the blue nylon gear to make it quieter.

I'm really loving this build and have about 400 miles on it so far with no issues. I ride as much as possible without any assist and save the assist for long hill climbs and head winds and usually only use level one or 2 assist. I can get 30-50 miles out of the little 6ah battery riding it this way. 26x4.0 Schwalbe Jumbo Jim tires have surprisingly low rolling resistance and at 12 psi make the bike a pleasure to ride. One of the things I love about the TSDZ2 is how little it interferes with unassisted pedaling when you choose to do so. I recently went for a single track ride with a friend on his regular mountain bike and I was able to keep up no problem with the motor turned off. I am getting more fitness benefits from this bike because it allows me to ride further and for longer periods of time. I also ride more often than I did with my regular mountain bike.

IMG_0578.jpg
 
vailbiker said:
This is my stealth e-bike build. TSDZ2 52v with a 6ah mighty mini battery in the tail bag, 100mm fat bike adapter, VLCD-6 display and a 30t chain ring for hill climbing. The Framed Minnesota LTD was a great platform for the build. Decent specs for just under $1000 and the chain line worked well with the TS chainring and the 30t narrow wide chainring I bought from Electrify Bike Co. I bought the motor with the fat bike adapter pre-installed from Eco-Cycles (eyebyesickle) - great reseller BTW. I ran it with the metal gear for a while, but reinstalled the blue nylon gear to make it quieter.

I'm really loving this build and have about 400 miles on it so far with no issues. I ride as much as possible without any assist and save the assist for long hill climbs and head winds and usually only use level one or 2 assist. I can get 30-50 miles out of the little 6ah battery riding it this way. 26x4.0 Schwalbe Jumbo Jim tires have surprisingly low rolling resistance and at 12 psi make the bike a pleasure to ride. One of the things I love about the TSDZ2 is how little it interferes with unassisted pedaling when you choose to do so. I recently went for a single track ride with a friend on his regular mountain bike and I was able to keep up no problem with the motor turned off. I am getting more fitness benefits from this bike because it allows me to ride further and for longer periods of time. I also ride more often than I did with my regular mountain bike.

IMG_0578.jpg
Click to expand...
Really nice experience sharing, thanks!!
 
Today I went back to making a 42km exit using quite the tour mode, I took it to the 110km bike and still has 50% of the battery left, I'm going to do 200km or more with a load, it's surprising how little it is consuming me and how well the tsdz2 works, I am delighted, after seeing how good it is going I am considering moving to the fat that is the bike that I like the most for the mountain
Resultados web
Traductor de Google
https://translate.google.es › ...
El servicio gratuito de Google traduce instantáneamente palabras, frases y páginas web del español a más de 100 idiomas y viceversa.
 
ancan said:
eyebyesickle said:
So remove the seal on the non drive side:
tsdz2nondriveseal.jpg

then remove the lock ring, and insert some identical washers until you can BARELY slide the lockring back down to snap on. In order to get it snug, I cannot place the lock ring with the pliers...I get it as far back as I can, then I have to slide it until it locks back into the groove, because you will need to apply some pressure if you put enough washers there to snug everything up...
tsdz2nondrivebehindseallockring.jpg


Washer size / part info to follow...
Click to expand...

I'm a bit ambivalent to this. You're applying longitudinal pressure to remedy lateral flex, and I suspect the reason it works is because you put pressure on the inner part of the bearing while the outer part is fixed, and the balls will be squeezed between the two cups. These bearings aren't made to take sideway forces and I will probably cause it to wear prematurely. But I'm not an engineer, so I might be wrong.

If it's the bearing that causes the flex, could it possibly be replaced with a quality bearing instead?
Click to expand...

Good point, and there are a couple different ways for the axle to have play... side to side, and then at a tilt... if it is side to side, the method I showed works good, but if it is tilting, you may want to take them from the drive side, and then move the to the NON drive side, in order to have the splines fully engage.

When there is wiggle room and the splines are not fully engages, it leaves a little room for play - at least that is what I suspect to be happening, and have had enough success tightening them up to be happy with the solution...

As for replacing a bearing... you could do this as well, which would be a bit more labor and cost... and for long term this may be a good solution, but I have not had further trouble from units I have fixed with the outlined method, so did not find merit to take the solution to the next level.
 
Stealth Build...

- 2013 Motobecane LeChampion Titanium Road Bike
- 36v TSDZ2 w/ 7ah Sanyo GA 'H2GO' Water Bottle Battery
- Maroq/Open Source Firmware w/ VLCD-5 Display
- 52T w/ Chain Guard
- Total Weight w/ Everything: 31 lbs / 14 kg

This thing FLIES!!! ...but to be honest, I am not a road bike guy... and man is it a different ball game holding this bars on the inside with a skinny grip... but I can make better time with this than my folding full suspension 52v! That also has to do with suspension and tires but still... oh yeah, and you see the spare water bottle cage... I can easily bring a 2nd and switch...but you can get surprising range from a 36v7ah on this thing as is...

Anyway - had to share!
 

Attachments

  • titaniumtsdz2nondrive.jpg
    titaniumtsdz2nondrive.jpg
    77.7 KB · Views: 2,208
eyebyesickle said:
Stealth Build...

- 2013 Motobecane LeChampion Titanium Road Bike
- 36v TSDZ2 w/ 7ah Sanyo GA 'H2GO' Water Bottle Battery
- Maroq/Open Source Firmware w/ VLCD-5 Display
- 52T w/ Chain Guard
- Total Weight w/ Everything: 31 lbs / 14 kg

This thing FLIES!!! ...but to be honest, I am not a road bike guy... and man is it a different ball game holding this bars on the inside with a skinny grip... but I can make better time with this than my folding full suspension 52v! That also has to do with suspension and tires but still... oh yeah, and you see the spare water bottle cage... I can easily bring a 2nd and switch...but you can get surprising range from a 36v7ah on this thing as is...

Anyway - had to share!
Click to expand...

Very stealthy! Can you share some more details on that bottle battery?
 
casainho said:
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
eyebyesickle said:
Different main gear w/ no clutch and a different controller...
Click to expand...
Hmmm, others are saying the controller is just the same. Can you please show evidence that is different??
Click to expand...

No sorry, you'll have to take my word for it on this one... I didn't take pictures etc but confirmed visually and through reprogramming that there were differences... I'm quite certain.
Click to expand...
I am asking this because Rydon is trying to test our firmware on that version and says it probably has the same controller. If it is different, well, then it will not work...
Click to expand...

TongSheng actually puts a "BK" in the controller part number of the coaster brake version of the motor just like they put a "BK" in the part number on the outside of the case. I assume "BK" means "coaster BraKe".

The stock firmware is different on the coaster brake version of the motor. The motor stops instantly when you stop pedaling on the coaster brake version but has a slight delay before stopping on the regular version. I once put a regular controller on a coaster brake motor and when you would stop pedaling the pedals would jump forward for a split second - not pleasant.

I believe the controller hardware is the same except that I learned with version 16 of the open source firmware that it has a constant voltage on the throttle even though the throttle is never hooked up on coaster brake motors. When reading it out from the LCD3 display the ADC throttle is 143 and the throttle is 189. Because of this with version 16 the motor would spin continuously as soon as you powered it up.

This problem was fixed in version 18.2 where the throttle is disabled by default. With this version of the firmware, the coaster brake motors work great with one exception - backward resistance. The backward resistance actually prevents the coaster brake from being applied whenever the motor is on. I have tried version 19 beta3 which fixes the backward resistance but now with v19 beta3 the motor never applies power when pedaling.

I am hoping someone will have some ideas on this. I will reflash it with 18.2 to make sure it still works with that level of firmware just to make sure something else hasn't gone wrong.
 
Rydon said:
casainho said:
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
Hmmm, others are saying the controller is just the same. Can you please show evidence that is different??
Click to expand...

No sorry, you'll have to take my word for it on this one... I didn't take pictures etc but confirmed visually and through reprogramming that there were differences... I'm quite certain.
Click to expand...
I am asking this because Rydon is trying to test our firmware on that version and says it probably has the same controller. If it is different, well, then it will not work...
Click to expand...

TongSheng actually puts a "BK" in the controller part number of the coaster brake version of the motor just like they put a "BK" in the part number on the outside of the case. I assume "BK" means "coaster BraKe".

The stock firmware is different on the coaster brake version of the motor. The motor stops instantly when you stop pedaling on the coaster brake version but has a slight delay before stopping on the regular version. I once put a regular controller on a coaster brake motor and when you would stop pedaling the pedals would jump forward for a split second - not pleasant.

I believe the controller hardware is the same except that I learned with version 16 of the open source firmware that it has a constant voltage on the throttle even though the throttle is never hooked up on coaster brake motors. When reading it out from the LCD3 display the ADC throttle is 143 and the throttle is 189. Because of this with version 16 the motor would spin continuously as soon as you powered it up.

This problem was fixed in version 18.2 where the throttle is disabled by default. With this version of the firmware, the coaster brake motors work great with one exception - backward resistance. The backward resistance actually prevents the coaster brake from being applied whenever the motor is on. I have tried version 19 beta3 which fixes the backward resistance but now with v19 beta3 the motor never applies power when pedaling.

I am hoping someone will have some ideas on this. I will reflash it with 18.2 to make sure it still works with that level of firmware just to make sure something else hasn't gone wrong.
Click to expand...
You need to make the tests I asked about cadence!!
On beta 3.
 
Rydon said:
TongSheng actually puts a "BK" in the controller part number of the coaster brake version of the motor just like they put a "BK" in the part number on the outside of the case. I assume "BK" means "coaster BraKe".

The stock firmware is different on the coaster brake version of the motor. The motor stops instantly when you stop pedaling on the coaster brake version but has a slight delay before stopping on the regular version. I once put a regular controller on a coaster brake motor and when you would stop pedaling the pedals would jump forward for a split second - not pleasant.

I believe the controller hardware is the same except that I learned with version 16 of the open source firmware that it has a constant voltage on the throttle even though the throttle is never hooked up on coaster brake motors. When reading it out from the LCD3 display the ADC throttle is 143 and the throttle is 189. Because of this with version 16 the motor would spin continuously as soon as you powered it up.

This problem was fixed in version 18.2 where the throttle is disabled by default. With this version of the firmware, the coaster brake motors work great with one exception - backward resistance. The backward resistance actually prevents the coaster brake from being applied whenever the motor is on. I have tried version 19 beta3 which fixes the backward resistance but now with v19 beta3 the motor never applies power when pedaling.

I am hoping someone will have some ideas on this. I will reflash it with 18.2 to make sure it still works with that level of firmware just to make sure something else hasn't gone wrong.
Click to expand...

Very interesting... I know I tried to turn a Coaster brake version into a normal model after TS told me that you couldn't do it :twisted: so of course I switched the main gear, and then reprogrammed the motor with my usual firmware... was not working... reflashed with the coaster brake firmware - worked fine... so this leads me to believe there had to be SOME sort of physical change in the controller hardware... although not my area of expertise per se, I am hard up to find another logical explanation...
 
How is the tsdz2 carried with the water? Every few km is it advisable to lubricate the crowns?
 
eyebyesickle said:
Rydon said:
TongSheng actually puts a "BK" in the controller part number of the coaster brake version of the motor just like they put a "BK" in the part number on the outside of the case. I assume "BK" means "coaster BraKe".

The stock firmware is different on the coaster brake version of the motor. The motor stops instantly when you stop pedaling on the coaster brake version but has a slight delay before stopping on the regular version. I once put a regular controller on a coaster brake motor and when you would stop pedaling the pedals would jump forward for a split second - not pleasant.

I believe the controller hardware is the same except that I learned with version 16 of the open source firmware that it has a constant voltage on the throttle even though the throttle is never hooked up on coaster brake motors. When reading it out from the LCD3 display the ADC throttle is 143 and the throttle is 189. Because of this with version 16 the motor would spin continuously as soon as you powered it up.

This problem was fixed in version 18.2 where the throttle is disabled by default. With this version of the firmware, the coaster brake motors work great with one exception - backward resistance. The backward resistance actually prevents the coaster brake from being applied whenever the motor is on. I have tried version 19 beta3 which fixes the backward resistance but now with v19 beta3 the motor never applies power when pedaling.

I am hoping someone will have some ideas on this. I will reflash it with 18.2 to make sure it still works with that level of firmware just to make sure something else hasn't gone wrong.
Click to expand...

Very interesting... I know I tried to turn a Coaster brake version into a normal model after TS told me that you couldn't do it :twisted: so of course I switched the main gear, and then reprogrammed the motor with my usual firmware... was not working... reflashed with the coaster brake firmware - worked fine... so this leads me to believe there had to be SOME sort of physical change in the controller hardware... although not my area of expertise per se, I am hard up to find another logical explanation...
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing the experience.
Where did you find the coaster brake official firmware ? I'm desperately looking for it. You installed it with the same procedure as the open source firmware?
I have a coaster brake motor with the wrong firmware installed (mistake by seller after I sent it for repair). The jump forward after stopping to pedal is really not pleasant and I want to install the right firmware.
 
qwerkus said:
el_proletario said:
qwerkus said:
mctubster said:
Thanks for the info. Depending on the battery voltage - which I assume changes the resonant frequencies - I can feel the motor through my handle bars ... low quality bearings makes some sense to me from a lay perspective. If you turn your noisy bearing by hand, does it feel rough?

Also is there a guide to dismantling to get at the bearings? or is it as simple as following your nose?

Cheers
Steve
Click to expand...

Very similar to my problem. I always have 2 sounds: normal motor whining, and some deeper annoying grinding you can feel through the entire bike. Same grinding can be felt when turning the defective bearing.
Click to expand...


Hello,
Which bearing was it precisely? Did you solve it by replacing the bearing only?
I have the same issue you describe (normal motor whining sound and the gear sound on top of it).
I sent it to Italy for repair.(seller pswpower) It came back with the same noise they didn't do anything... They only changed my power cable and put the wrong firmware of non-coaster brake version.
I have now a spare blue gear but I want to change any suspect bearing at the same time.

Basically warranty is totally useless with Chinese sellers, I'll use all the info on this thread to fix it.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Never went through the troubles of changing it, but im 99.9% sure it's either one or both bearings of the first reduction (where the blue gear is). I'm not sure though how much noise it would reduce; part of it - at least on my motor - is due to high manufacturing tolerances; there is nearly 0.5mm between the bearings and the casing, which means more vibrations, and more noise. Maybe another bearing would also come slightly larger and fix this issue too ?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I'll just change the blue gear soon and hopefully it will improve.
 
knutselmaaster said:
Find a tool like this:
images.jpeg
Click to expand...
Neither the one I got (too thick) or one like that (Not enough reach around the crank) worked. Thinking of riding a local circuit then goes downhill and back up without the bolt in armed with an allen key the thickness of the one that its too thick and checking as soon as the pedal starts to works loose or will that still cause adverse damage to the spindle?
 
el_proletario said:
Thanks for sharing the experience.
Where did you find the coaster brake official firmware ? I'm desperately looking for it. You installed it with the same procedure as the open source firmware?
I have a coaster brake motor with the wrong firmware installed (mistake by seller after I sent it for repair). The jump forward after stopping to pedal is really not pleasant and I want to install the right firmware.
Click to expand...

I have a database of all stock firmware as well as many profile I had created myself...and of course some 'tried and true' open source/maroq versions as well...

here is a link to a folder with some files...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eGcBtTj8GrGQ4tDJAECr6ejMrpW2ZqvH?usp=sharing

look for 36v6pincoasterbrake files for programmemory and datamemory...make sure you use them both...there is also STOCKOPTIONBYTE if this has been modified, you will need to reload this as well...
 
Where you have bought grease for blue gear? Tried to found small tube of MOLYKOTE EM-50L but no success. I'm living in Europe Finland...
 
Hi,
is this FW opensource? If so, is it on github somewhere?
thanks


eyebyesickle said:
el_proletario said:
Thanks for sharing the experience.
Where did you find the coaster brake official firmware ? I'm desperately looking for it. You installed it with the same procedure as the open source firmware?
I have a coaster brake motor with the wrong firmware installed (mistake by seller after I sent it for repair). The jump forward after stopping to pedal is really not pleasant and I want to install the right firmware.
Click to expand...

I have a database of all stock firmware as well as many profile I had created myself...and of course some 'tried and true' open source/maroq versions as well...

here is a link to a folder with some files...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eGcBtTj8GrGQ4tDJAECr6ejMrpW2ZqvH?usp=sharing

look for 36v6pincoasterbrake files for programmemory and datamemory...make sure you use them both...there is also STOCKOPTIONBYTE if this has been modified, you will need to reload this as well...
Click to expand...
 
csbike said:
Hi,
is this FW opensource? If so, is it on github somewhere?
thanks


eyebyesickle said:
el_proletario said:
Thanks for sharing the experience.
Where did you find the coaster brake official firmware ? I'm desperately looking for it. You installed it with the same procedure as the open source firmware?
I have a coaster brake motor with the wrong firmware installed (mistake by seller after I sent it for repair). The jump forward after stopping to pedal is really not pleasant and I want to install the right firmware.
Click to expand...

I have a database of all stock firmware as well as many profile I had created myself...and of course some 'tried and true' open source/maroq versions as well...

here is a link to a folder with some files...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eGcBtTj8GrGQ4tDJAECr6ejMrpW2ZqvH?usp=sharing

look for 36v6pincoasterbrake files for programmemory and datamemory...make sure you use them both...there is also STOCKOPTIONBYTE if this has been modified, you will need to reload this as well...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

No, this is not open source, it contains some stock firmware, and slightly modified stock firmware (small increase to power)... any proprietary firmware mods are not included, and there are no open source firmware profiles either... I was just saying I have a database of ones I use/try... but the link has the STOCK coaster brake files for "el_proletario" who was asking for them - that was the main reason I posted the link
 
So what's the overall verdict. Is opensource firmware on 48V motor+controller+battery raising the maximum cadence support or the only way to increase cadence support is switching motor to 36V?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
    • Like
Really good article comparing Bafang vs. Tongsheng vs. CYC
Replies
12
Views
10,539
999zip999
999zip999
E-HP
    • Like
DIY Newb FAQ?
Replies
20
Views
2,383
neptronix
neptronix
B
Intro guide to TSDZ2 & BBS02 (updated 2021)
2
Replies
35
Views
17,236
docw009
docw009
Back
Top