Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Punx0r » Apr 11 2019 4:20pm

OK, your armchair analysis trumps the statements of the people who actually recycle PV modules...

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Apr 11 2019 7:11pm

Punx0r wrote:
Apr 11 2019 4:20pm
OK, your armchair analysis trumps the statements of the people who actually recycle PV modules...
Really !. :o ...like the recycling operator in the first video who clearly stated that most of the panels end up in land filll ?
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billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Apr 12 2019 1:48am

Punx0r wrote:
Apr 11 2019 4:20pm
OK, your armchair analysis trumps the statements of the people who actually recycle PV modules...
Of course it does. And if he needs more proof? He will just go to Youtube, search "solar sucks" and post the link to THAT video. Can't argue with proof like that!
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Cephalotus » Apr 12 2019 2:14am

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 11 2019 7:11pm
Punx0r wrote:
Apr 11 2019 4:20pm
OK, your armchair analysis trumps the statements of the people who actually recycle PV modules...
Really !. :o ...like the recycling operator in the first video who clearly stated that most of the panels end up in land filll ?
Obviously there are differences in the technological maturity of the recycling process in various countries.

Maybe in some countries throwing their old modules just into their landfill is common. That's why I believe that it is good to have harsh rules on recycling.

But just because someone is unwilling or unable to recycling is no proof that recycling is not done in other parts of the world or that recycling is not possible.

Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Punx0r » Apr 12 2019 2:17am

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 11 2019 7:11pm
Really !. :o ...like the recycling operator in the first video who clearly stated that most of the panels end up in land filll ?
WEEE-compliant specialist PV recycler Vs. a general recycler who rips out the copper, aluminium, smashes the glass and throws the rest into general waste? Get real.

Has there ever been a process, product, invention or concept that you didn't think sucked and poured scorn on? Were you always the contrarian at work, playing Devil's advocate and giving everyone 50 reasons why their proposals couldn't possibly work?

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Apr 12 2019 9:39am

The WEEE recycling process....
The recycling process of silicon-based PV panels starts with disassembling the actual product to separate aluminium and glass parts. Almost all (95%) of the glass can be reused, while all external metal parts are used for re-molding cell frames. The remainder materials are treated at 500°C in a thermal processing unit in order to ease up the binding between the cell elements. Due to the extreme heat, the encapsulating plastic evaporates, leaving the silicon cells ready to be further processed. The supporting technology ensures that not even this plastic is wasted, therefore it is reused as a heat source for further thermal processing....
..so, basicly ripping out the aluminium, smashing the glass , then burning the rest !
Interesting that burning plastic is now classed as “recycling”
Im not to sure that is much different, or better, to that general recycler.
But , the issue was not the method of recycling ,..but the amount of panels needing to be recycled.
The australian report was bad ,but japan and Germany are dealing with much bigger quantities.
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cricketo   1 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Apr 12 2019 11:04am

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 12 2019 9:39am
The australian report was bad ,but japan and Germany are dealing with much bigger quantities.
Please send them here.

Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Punx0r » Apr 12 2019 1:23pm

Amazing how someone can read almost any meaning they want into an apparently clear statement...

Glass & aluminium are removed
Remains are HEATED to EVAPORATE off the plastic and free the silicon cells
Cells are then further processed to recover & recycle useful elements
The evaporated plastic is used as a heat source for the process (presumably combusted)

Burning plastic isn't much different to burning various oil products.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Apr 12 2019 5:51pm

As i said, the issue is the quantity of panels needing recycling (or burying !) NOT the details of the recycling.
..but... “Heating” the remains at 500 C .....sounds much like burning to me ?...
.( “evaporating” and “combusted” are nice pleasant sounding words to describe a burning process !)
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billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Apr 12 2019 8:37pm

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 12 2019 5:51pm
As i said, the issue is the quantity of panels needing recycling (or burying !) NOT the details of the recycling.
..but... “Heating” the remains at 500 C .....sounds much like burning to me ?...
They heat crude oil to 600C to fractionate it into its components at oil refineries.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/envir ... ining4.htm

Do you really think that they are "burning" it all at the refinery? (well, heck, maybe you do)
--bill von

cricketo   1 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Apr 12 2019 9:48pm

Plastics are polymers typically formed through application of heat and pressure. Heating them again without presence of oxygen and at reduced pressure will probably result in breakages of the chains and reduction of them to monomers without any combustion. I'm an armchair chemist though, somebody may have a more scientific way to describe this.

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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by TheBeastie » Apr 13 2019 4:02am

While you guys reference fake baloney stories with no respectable URLs or data and live in the world of BBC, ABC & CNN news, the real information waits for you on the internet to finally get clued up.

Solar panels are a massive contributor to radioactive sludge.
https://www.unscear.org/docs/publicatio ... B-CORR.pdf
Check Table 45, Page 210
Don't you dare ignore data from the most professional scientists out there
United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Na ... _Radiation
Image
https://www.unscear.org/

You guys are globalist slave morons, destroying the planet for no good reason. You all demand mass immigration from the 3rd world which at minimum increases their co2 footprint by a massive 60 times when the reach the 1st world, and their only entrance rule is to consume/buy more coca-cola/iPhones/stuff etc to please the big global companies so their stock prices go up, while the quality of living and the cost of living for everyone else goes down.
It's all supply & demand law.
https://youtu.be/inLeyPeIoaQ?t=533

Image

Creating countless tons of super toxic radioactive sludge just so you can play games of politics with energy destroying peoples lives and robbing their livelihoods with expensive energy, when we know 4th gen nuclear will come and crush all anyway.

https://youtu.be/GcCQzynid0Y

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6378498 ... a=!3m1!1e3
http://brusselstimes.com/business/techn ... tudy-shows
http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/pres ... autos.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_solar_cells
https://www.amazon.com/Green-Illusions- ... 0803237758
https://www.unscear.org/docs/publicatio ... B-CORR.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Na ... _Radiation
https://stopthesethings.com/2019/05/09/ ... ind-solar/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_turbine_design
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etching_( ... abrication
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicondu ... _materials
https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/hats/c ... po&gas=sf6
https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/iadv/i ... p?code=mlo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_he ... Other_uses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroflu ... cean_water
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhous ... _potential
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshe ... 18de89121c
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshe ... 58dee43a1c
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosliv ... scale.html
https://www.epa.gov/f-gas-partnership-p ... r-industry

Just to make the world look like this for some crapy unreliable power, I would much prefer TREES thanks.
Image

All when the best PhD scientists in climatology say there's nothing going on, climate change is all modelling that has no resemblance to what's really happening on the planet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA5sGtj7QKQ
Last edited by TheBeastie on May 14 2019 9:50am, edited 6 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

cricketo   1 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Apr 13 2019 10:01am

TheBeastie wrote:
Apr 13 2019 4:02am
the real information waits for you on the internet to finally get clued up.

All when the best PhD scientists in climatology say there's nothing going on, climate change is all modelling that has no resemblance to what's really happening on the planet.
:lol:

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Apr 13 2019 12:39pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Apr 13 2019 4:02am
While you guys reference fake baloney stories with no respectable URLs or data and live in the world of BBC, ABC & CNN news, the real information waits for you on the internet to finally get clued up.
Irony score 10/10.
--bill von

Ianhill   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Ianhill » Apr 14 2019 11:46am

billvon wrote:
Apr 13 2019 12:39pm
TheBeastie wrote:
Apr 13 2019 4:02am
While you guys reference fake baloney stories with no respectable URLs or data and live in the world of BBC, ABC & CNN news, the real information waits for you on the internet to finally get clued up.
Irony score 10/10.
Seriously after all the links you have provided of mythical science you drop a comment like that, damn don't you get it ? It's all fake news we live in a world of brexit and trump logic has gone it's a flat out rat race of countrys all for themselfs believe nothing you havent seen or can not prove unless you want to be a fool.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Apr 14 2019 5:50pm

Ianhill wrote:
Apr 14 2019 11:46am
...... believe nothing you havent seen or can not prove unless you want to be a fool.
True..... But also remember that applies to all sides of the issue
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

cricketo   1 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Apr 14 2019 6:13pm

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 14 2019 5:50pm
True..... But also remember that applies to all sides of the issue
Right, the Earth is still flat until proven otherwise... :lol:

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Apr 14 2019 9:44pm

cricketo wrote:
Apr 14 2019 6:13pm
Right, the Earth is still flat until proven otherwise... :lol:
..and a 0.01% increase of CO2 in the atmosphere causes the earths temperature to rise uncontrollably.. :lol: :lol:
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billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Apr 14 2019 11:03pm

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 14 2019 9:44pm
cricketo wrote:
Apr 14 2019 6:13pm
Right, the Earth is still flat until proven otherwise... :lol:
..and a 0.01% increase of CO2 in the atmosphere causes the earths temperature to rise uncontrollably.. :lol: :lol:
CO2 has actually increased by 50%. But nice try! Ignorant people might just believe you - and they are excellent people to target, as Trump has realized.
--bill von

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Apr 15 2019 4:15am

Check the numbers..
CO2 has increased. (in nice simple round numbers).. by 100 ppm in the last 100yrs...(. OK , lets call it 150ppm to keep you from arguing ...even though it is not that much)
150 ppm is 0.015%
CO2 has increased by 0.015% in the atmosphere....FACT
Sure..50% sounds much more dramatic for your agenda when you want to alarm the population...but it doesnt work on intelligent /informed people who understand that even a large % increase in a very small amount ,..is still a very small amount.
PS:.. have you heard the joke about the man who convinced a European Organisation that he knew how to control the Earth’s climate and stop sea levels rising ?... :lol: :lol:
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Apr 15 2019 8:14am

So a CO2 goes from 300 ppm to 400 ppm. That is, every cubic metre of atmosphere now has 1.5 times as many CO2 molecules as it used to have. And you're telling me that is the same as a 0.015% increase... You have a very unique way of trolling - by demonstrating a lack of understanding of mathematics you're not helping your case.

cricketo   1 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Apr 15 2019 9:06am

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 15 2019 4:15am
it doesnt work on intelligent /informed people
:lol:

cricketo   1 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Apr 15 2019 9:16am

jonescg wrote:
Apr 15 2019 8:14am
So a CO2 goes from 300 ppm to 400 ppm. That is, every cubic metre of atmosphere now has 1.5 times as many CO2 molecules as it used to have. And you're telling me that is the same as a 0.015% increase... You have a very unique way of trolling - by demonstrating a lack of understanding of mathematics you're not helping your case.
I think he understands it, he just doesn't accept that a change in the concentration of a minor gas can have any significant effect.

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Apr 15 2019 2:09pm

NY State has published their detailed study for offshore wind and has declared to start with a commitment for 2.3 GW of new wind by 2030 and a long term goal of 100% clean electricity by 2040 (which would need 35 GW summer peak).
.
https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All-Programs ... aster-Plan
.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Apr 15 2019 2:19pm

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 15 2019 4:15am
Check the numbers..
CO2 has increased. (in nice simple round numbers).. by 100 ppm in the last 100yrs...(. OK , lets call it 150ppm to keep you from arguing ...even though it is not that much)
No need to guess and make up numbers. We can use actual numbers.

CO2 in 1850 was about 280ppm. Now it is 415ppm, as of today. That's an increase of 135ppm, or 48%.
150 ppm is 0.015%
CO2 has increased by 0.015% in the atmosphere....FACT
Nope. CO2 has increased by 48%. 280 to 415 is an increase of 48%. That's just math, no matter how badly you want to spin it as insignificant.
Sure..50% sounds much more dramatic for your agenda when you want to alarm the population...but it doesnt work on intelligent /informed people who understand that even a large % increase in a very small amount ,..is still a very small amount.
A very small _amount?_ Let's see if that makes any sense at all:

Total weight of the atmosphere is 5e15 tonnes. If CO2 is 415ppm then it makes up 628ppm of the weight of the atmosphere (since it's heavier than most other gases.) We have increased that by 135ppm. That means we've increased that by 1.03e12 tonnes. That is over a _trillion_ tons.

To put that into human comprehensible figures, the largest animal on the planet (a blue whale) weighs 180 tonnes. That means it would take 5.6 BILLION blue whales to match the weight of the CO2 increase.

Or perhaps by people. There are 7.53 billion people on the planet. If we gave an equal amount to each person on the planet, then each person would have to carry 136 tons of CO2. Can you carry 136 tons of CO2? After all, it is a very small amount!

Looks like the "intelligent/informed people" haven't really thought this one through.
--bill von

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