Tesla Model 3

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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Apr 20 2019 5:52am

I thought this mini-documentary on Tesla's current issues was pretty interesting, its pretty balanced if anything.

https://youtu.be/Kgm85SB_lqg?t=1781
^I really find the bit on the subsidies quite interesting.

Most companies get berated for losing a lot of executives in a short period of time, as a sign of doom.
But Tesla has taken it to the next level as they are losing 4 members of its board in one announcement that came out today
Tesla Shaking Up Board With Long-Time Insider Steve Jurvetson, 3 Others To Leave
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsma ... 59e6076b1f

A new study from Germany reconfirms what a lot of us already know, a battery pack in a Tesla is so big that its manufacture is about 10 years worth of co2 emissions pre-emitted before you start driving.
Electric vehicles in Germany account for more CO2 emissions than diesel ones, according to a study by German scientists.
http://www.brusselstimes.com/business/t ... tudy-shows
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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 20 2019 9:11am

The CO2 numbers are all wrong it's just a fake study as we have seen 100s of times.

And if you find the tiny bit of subsidies Tesla has gotten how about the $5 Trillion a year the top 50 oil companies get in subsidies.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 20 2019 12:53pm

Chalo wrote:
Apr 20 2019 3:58am
Cue Hillhater or Beastie saying how it's all because Audi isn't focusing on coal-fired cars.
I just went ahead and muted both of them. Had enough of that nonsense :)

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 20 2019 5:15pm

Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 20 2019 9:40pm

cricketo wrote:
Apr 20 2019 3:31am
Funny :
From the article:

============
The Audi e-tron, once dubbed by avid Tesla critics as a potential “Tesla Killer,” is reportedly running into production problems due to a constrained supply of batteries and a slower-than-expected delivery of electric motors. These production problems have reportedly caused Audi to postpone the release of its upcoming all-electric car, the e-tron Sportback, to 2020, roughly a year later than its intended 2019 release date.
============

Looks like Audi may have to send some people to Palo Alto and Sparks to see how it's done.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 20 2019 9:43pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Apr 20 2019 5:52am
A new study from Germany reconfirms what a lot of us already know, a battery pack in a Tesla is so big that its manufacture is about 10 years worth of co2 emissions pre-emitted before you start driving.
Yep.

I got a laugh on another forum about how EV's were killing everyone because of all the radioactive waste that comes out of their battery manufacture. Then it was toxic chemicals. Then it was child labor. Now it's CO2. Tomorrow we will find out that EV batteries cause illegal immigration, terrorism and bad breath.

If your first smear doesn't work, just keep tryin em until you find one that does!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 21 2019 12:38am

billvon wrote:
Apr 20 2019 9:43pm
Then it was toxic chemicals. Then it was child labor. Now it's CO2. Tomorrow we will find out that EV batteries cause illegal immigration, terrorism and bad breath.
Pretty sure chemtrails come from somewhere in Sparks, NV :mrgreen:

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by fechter » Apr 22 2019 6:45pm

OT since it was a Model S, but the video is pretty scary :shock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jznDBN_FBH0
They're suspicious that it was some kind of staged event.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 22 2019 10:41pm

fechter wrote:
Apr 22 2019 6:45pm
OT since it was a Model S, but the video is pretty scary :shock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jznDBN_FBH0
They're suspicious that it was some kind of staged event.
Yeah looks suspicious for sure. Who knows what's been hacked up on that car.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 22 2019 11:44pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 22 2019 10:41pm
Yeah looks suspicious for sure. Who knows what's been hacked up on that car.
First we'd probably need to determine if that's a Tesla-style car :mrgreen:

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Apr 23 2019 8:56am

fechter wrote:
Apr 22 2019 6:45pm
OT since it was a Model S, but the video is pretty scary :shock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jznDBN_FBH0
They're suspicious that it was some kind of staged event.
Looks like a classic YouTube lipo pack-stabbing fire video, except car-sized and with no one there to stab it.
The thing that really makes this video special is the fact the cameras were recording BEFORE the fire started, there have been a fair amount of "Parked Teslas" bursting into flames, just none recording the incident from the very start.

Very same Tesla model being the "Model S" fire happened Today, the guy was just driving and noticed something was wrong and pulled over where the car went up in flames. He called the fire brigade immediately but still burned significantly.
https://www.autoblog.nl/nieuws/tesla-in ... org-123635
Image

The belief from people who are betting against Tesla is that there are so many Model-S and Model-X mystery fires that their only real question is why doesn't it happen to the Model-3. Apparently, the model-3's have NOT suffered from spontaneous combustion problems like their older counterparts. So in this area, the Model-3 is a winner.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today was Tesla's "Autonomy Day", where they go over their latest work in self-driving technology.
CNBC which is normally ridiculed for pushing Elon/Tesla's hype was far more in the middle this time around, maybe years of seeing presentations designed to appeal to sharemarket investors makes it easy for them to see it for what it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlILEXbe-cA



My biggest reason why I haven't believed in non-LIDAR self-driving solutions is the amount of computing-processing power it takes for a mostly optical camera (non-LIDAR) only based driving system to really understand the world around it.
Tesla has put together a custom processor to try and achieve the goals of mostly just optical camera based driving, and their presentation video is far more convincing than their previous stuff.
But Tesla came out and said they have been putting their new processor design in all new Tesla's for roughly the last month now and are still claiming they are more or less 1 year away (which really means 2-3 years away) from FSD.

To me one of the bigger giveaways was when this lady reporter asked about the next released FSD computer and what will it be able to do that the new current one can't do, and the head engineer neural-net processor guy said the most hilariously honest thing to help Elon answer the question, that is he tries to whisper to him "safety"
https://twitter.com/wolfejosh/status/11 ... 3863530499

https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE?t=6194
^Full Youtube Tesla "Autonomy Day" video here.
So what this really means is that while their new FSD computer might be a remarkable leap over what they have had before, to really get true safety FSD level driving it won't happen until they have their next generation even more powerful FSD computer is completed, IMO.
I really think Elon had hoped to come out with even more hardcore promises of timelines rather than just "next year" but while their new FSD hardware is a big improvement he couldn't say "its here" which I believe he really wanted to be able to do so because of the falling "deliveries" numbers. The stock is obviously going to about to get hammered in my opinion.

It seems like its taken Tesla years to finally work out exactly what they really need for really reliable non-LIDAR optical camera based driving and they are inching towards that goal, but aren't there yet.
I think if other companies want to copy the optical-based zero-LIDAR FSD approach it won't take them that much work to catch up but definitely "appears" Tesla has a lead. I actually do now agree that LIDAR is just too expensive and messy long term, I am convinced a cheap LIDAR technology will never come, and that is its biggest problem.
what self-driving cars really do need is a lot of camera optic inputs and an incredibly powerful computer working out what's going on, so far some of the Tesla crashes on autopilot have been so dumb its just scary, https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... Waz2jer8Ek
so they still have a lot of work to do.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon- ... 2019-04-22

While folks might like what Elon is doing, it's important to remember just how much "it's about the money" all this can be argued about.
Elon Musk’s CEO pay-to-worker ratio is the highest ever recorded — how it compares at other tech companies
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/new ... ation.html

Consumer Reports: Tesla Must Prove Safety Before Claiming “Self-Driving” Ability
https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/pr ... g-ability/
“But instead of treating the public like guinea pigs, Tesla must clearly demonstrate a driving automation system that is substantially safer than what is available today, based on rigorous evidence that is transparently shared with regulators and consumers, and validated by independent third-parties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b_y6dSkFpk
Last edited by TheBeastie on Apr 24 2019 6:16am, edited 2 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
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Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 23 2019 10:30am

Tesla has a restringing order against at least 1 short who was stalking employees as well a group of shorts have planned to make Teslas catch fire in order to profit from the stock dip. Why do you think the camera was rolling before it started catching fire??
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 23 2019 12:07pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 10:30am
Why do you think the camera was rolling before it started catching fire??
Actually that looks like a "screener" of a surveillance video that may have continuous recording.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 23 2019 12:14pm


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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 23 2019 12:35pm

cricketo wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:07pm
Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 10:30am
Why do you think the camera was rolling before it started catching fire??
Actually that looks like a "screener" of a surveillance video that may have continuous recording.
Yeah I didn't click his link I thought it might be another video.
That one does look suspicious for sure. Its odd how fast it became a big fireball.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 23 2019 12:36pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:35pm
Its odd how fast it became a big fireball.
Chain reaction perhaps ?

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 23 2019 1:35pm

cricketo wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:36pm
Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:35pm
Its odd how fast it became a big fireball.
Chain reaction perhaps ?
Doubt it. Usually 1 cell ignites then another but the modules in a Model S are separate to make a smaller fire. So its more likely you will see some smoke then a small fire then a big fire if all the modules ignite.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 23 2019 7:48pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 1:35pm
cricketo wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:36pm
Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:35pm
Its odd how fast it became a big fireball.
Chain reaction perhaps ?
Doubt it. Usually 1 cell ignites then another but the modules in a Model S are separate to make a smaller fire. So its more likely you will see some smoke then a small fire then a big fire if all the modules ignite.
Isnt that a description of a chain reaction ?
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Chalo » Apr 23 2019 10:24pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:35pm
That one does look suspicious for sure. Its odd how fast it became a big fireball.
Maybe someone fell into arrears on his protection payments.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 23 2019 11:09pm

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 23 2019 7:48pm
Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 1:35pm
cricketo wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:36pm
Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 12:35pm
Its odd how fast it became a big fireball.
Chain reaction perhaps ?
Doubt it. Usually 1 cell ignites then another but the modules in a Model S are separate to make a smaller fire. So its more likely you will see some smoke then a small fire then a big fire if all the modules ignite.
Isnt that a description of a chain reaction ?
Sure but that's not what the video shows.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 24 2019 12:21am

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 11:09pm
Sure but that's not what the video shows.
Let me help you :

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by fechter » Apr 24 2019 8:20am

To get a fireball that big, a large section of the pack would need to short. The individual cell fuse wires are supposed to prevent more than one (or a few) cells from blowing in this case. Perhaps the individual cell fuse wires don't perform as advertised.
It does not appear the car is being charged at the time, but hard to say for sure.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 24 2019 11:10am

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 1:35pm
Doubt it. Usually 1 cell ignites then another but the modules in a Model S are separate to make a smaller fire. So its more likely you will see some smoke then a small fire then a big fire if all the modules ignite.
In an 18650 battery pack without protection (eutetic material between cells, very powerful active cooling) then one cell lighting off will get the cell next to it to ignition temperature. This has been demonstrated quite a bit.
fechter wrote:
Apr 24 2019 8:20am
To get a fireball that big, a large section of the pack would need to short. The individual cell fuse wires are supposed to prevent more than one (or a few) cells from blowing in this case.
The individual fuses will protect the pack if one cell sees a dead short, but not if ignition occurs.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by fechter » Apr 24 2019 12:04pm

If the video is real, then it was way more than just a few cells going off. Normally you see a pack burn much more slowly where one or two cells at a time are venting and it propagates from cell to cell. If a whole bank or section of the pack somehow shorted, then you could get a lot of cells heating up at the same time and have something like the video.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 24 2019 12:30pm

fechter wrote:
Apr 24 2019 12:04pm
If the video is real, then it was way more than just a few cells going off. Normally you see a pack burn much more slowly where one or two cells at a time are venting and it propagates from cell to cell.
Perhaps. A lot depends on how the pack is built. If it relies on solid heatsinking to move heat from one cell to another to a heat pipe, then adjacent cells may reach ignition temperature a lot more rapidly. If it relies on aircooling, it may take far longer for the heat to propagate through the air.
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