Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 25 2019 7:53am

fullofdays wrote:
Apr 25 2019 7:36am
Does the Asi4k and bigger batt require the x version or can the cheaper/older version be used as a base?
It wouldn't matter. They are the same other than the controller.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fullofdays » Apr 25 2019 8:08am

thanks. and are all bikes available with regen braking? Is that part of the controller or specific motor or both?

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 25 2019 9:35am

fullofdays wrote:
Apr 25 2019 8:08am
thanks. and are all bikes available with regen braking? Is that part of the controller or specific motor or both?
Regen only comes with certain versions of the X controller. And it is "slip regen" meaning it engages as soon as you let off the throttle and is not controlled by the brake levers. Some versions of X controller do not have regen and the older trapezoid controllers do not have regen.

I have the old trapezoidal controller. I just upgraded my brake pads and the braking is adequate now. You won't get much range improvement from regen, but your brake pads will last longer.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fullofdays » Apr 25 2019 10:12am

Ah- makes sense now. Sounds like I'll be good finding an older version with trapezoidal controller and upgrading to the Asi4k controller kit and bigger batt....and maybe different brake pads

In other words, theres no differences internally or electronically with the motor, correct?

Part of me wonders if I can just buy frame/motor, etc. And build it up myself!

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Apr 25 2019 10:45am

Are you from EU? Then here in the market is a surron for a good price.(not mine)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fullofdays » Apr 25 2019 11:21am

I saw that green one for sale. I'm in SE USA unfortunately

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Apr 25 2019 1:02pm

Allex wrote:
Apr 25 2019 6:26am
210cells is whats really fits inside with honeycomb layout and holders(for safety)
This will be a 16s13p so 45Ah instead of stock 32Ah with some good cells
Nice! Can you get empty cases from Sur Ron? It would be pretty expensive to have to cannibalize working packs to make new ones. It would be nice to have a spare stock battery, although for what, I don't know... I guess backup battery for the house. Maybe for a really long ride with a trailer?

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 25 2019 1:30pm

fullofdays wrote:
Apr 25 2019 10:12am
In other words, theres no differences internally or electronically with the motor, correct?
The only difference is in the controller. Everything else is the same. If you are going to upgrade to an ASI controller, it won't matter.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 25 2019 3:34pm

n2mb wrote:
Apr 25 2019 1:02pm
Allex wrote:
Apr 25 2019 6:26am
210cells is whats really fits inside with honeycomb layout and holders(for safety)
This will be a 16s13p so 45Ah instead of stock 32Ah with some good cells
Nice! Can you get empty cases from Sur Ron? It would be pretty expensive to have to cannibalize working packs to make new ones. It would be nice to have a spare stock battery, although for what, I don't know... I guess backup battery for the house. Maybe for a really long ride with a trailer?
Probably can. But you can sell the old cells here so will not be a big loss. I removed the nickel from my PF cells and built a new battery for a different bike with them.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tommm » Apr 25 2019 4:25pm

I see a few people riding 20s and big 16s batteries in the threads here.

Is anyone producing them yet? Or how is it going? I think an asi4000 (or equivalent) with a battery upgrade kit would be a big hit for whoever produces them first and with good quality.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by skyungjae » Apr 25 2019 4:28pm

Tommm wrote:
Apr 25 2019 4:25pm
I see a few people riding 20s and big 16s batteries in the threads here.

Is anyone producing them yet? Or how is it going? I think an asi4000 (or equivalent) with a battery upgrade kit would be a big hit for whoever produces them first and with good quality.
https://electricrt.com/battery/

A drop in upgrade is just on the horizon.

They also have a PnP harness w/BMS for lipos.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 26 2019 6:53am

Allex wrote:
Apr 25 2019 6:26am
210cells is whats really fits inside with honeycomb layout and holders(for safety)
This will be a 16s13p so 45Ah instead of stock 32Ah with some good cells
Why did you stay at 16s? I would have increased that to at least 18s.

The Sur-Ron top speed is just passable at 45MPH, it needs just a little more top speed to stay in traffic better when on the street.
I would say 18s would help, but you probably would want 20s. I'm not so sure using overdrive is the best way to increase the top speed because its wasteful.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 26 2019 7:21am

I want to keep original BMS, charger and battery display.
This battery will prolly see a BAC or nucleous controller and top speed is enough for my riding style and if I want more I can just change to a smaller sprocket and increase the battery amps to compensate torque loss.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 26 2019 10:44am

Allex wrote:
Mar 23 2019 12:10pm
Allex wrote:
Mar 13 2019 5:40pm
Mmm too bad that I cannot test the bike outdoors just yet, but here is a inhouse run for you!
I totally love it and I would not manage this without Madin, thank you man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz4yXvuMhXo

Created a sale thread for those who are interested in this Kit, you can find more info and a manual:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=99248
And so its done! Ppl, get your dollars ready =)
Sales:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=99248
Image

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 26 2019 4:38pm

I was thinking about building another rear wheel.

Would anyone know how I would go about getting a hub for the rear wheel?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 26 2019 5:25pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 26 2019 4:38pm
I was thinking about building another rear wheel.

Would anyone know how I would go about getting a hub for the rear wheel?
might be able to order it from aebikes or some other surron dealer.. here is a parts list.. :
https://stagmotorcycles.co.uk/pages/sur ... -catalogue
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 26 2019 7:35pm

I take it the rear hub is proprietary and you can't use another hub if you want easy installation of sprocket and brakes?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 26 2019 8:01pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 26 2019 7:35pm
I take it the rear hub is proprietary and you can't use another hub if you want easy installation of sprocket and brakes?
would be cool if someone started making an aftermarket rear hub for surron, so you could run aftermarket rear brake disk such as floating disk, larger diameter or disk with better thermal management tech.. not sure why they went proprietary rear disc bolt spacing.. what is the dropout spacing and axle diameter?? might be able to adapt some other off the shelf rear hub such as lmx, motoped etc??
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by rcmonstermike » Apr 26 2019 8:06pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 26 2019 4:38pm
I was thinking about building another rear wheel.

Would anyone know how I would go about getting a hub for the rear wheel?
I was able to get a hub from AE bikes and built an 18" rear wheel so I could use an 18x3 tire. Pretty sure they use a proprietary hub and disc to allow larger bearings in the rear wheel(required for any longevity with real power)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 26 2019 10:08pm

Thanks, I also want to build a 18x3.00 wheel. It seems like the 19" Sur Ron wheel slides out so easily and spins so easily.

What brand tire and brand rim did you use?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by rcmonstermike » Apr 27 2019 6:59am

I used a Rising Sun 18x1.6 rim with a Shinko SR241 tire....it seems just about perfect, though rain and work have prevented me from getting a lot of time on it.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 27 2019 10:49am

rcmonstermike, thank again for the information. I also want to go with the same exact shinko tire. I think that is the perfect size and tire for the bike, especially that the shinko 241 was made to be light weight.

The rear 19x2.75 tire is just too skinny for good traction, it also wears out rather quickly if you drive it on pavement, actually it wears out ridiculously fast because the knobs are so tiny on the tire. Another big issue is I'm noticing that I'm ripping up a lot of grass in areas I ride the Sur-Ron in, like in my local parks. This isn't good :shock: and I believe its due to the crappy traction of the Sur-Ron 19" tire that has almost no traction and just spins so easily, even at high speeds it is still spinning out.

The 18x3.00 size is almost the same size as the stock 19x2.75 tire also. I also use a 17x3.00 shinko 241 on my hub motor bike and just love it and it doesn't seem to ever spin out or damage any grass. I keep my PSI at between 12 and 14 with no issues.

I may use that same rising sun rim, were you happy with the rising sun rim, its quality and weight?

Could you tell me what spoke length you used and what size gauge spokes you used for the build? I may just get 10 gauge spokes, although the 12 gauge have no issues on the bike except seem to come loose rather easily.
Last edited by Offroader on Apr 27 2019 11:07am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Apr 27 2019 10:53am

What about using the 17-in supermoto wheels with the shinko tire?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 27 2019 11:18am

n2mb wrote:
Apr 27 2019 10:53am
What about using the 17-in supermoto wheels with the shinko tire?
If you have the 17" supermoto wheel and wanted to use the shinko 241 tire. I would go with the 17x3.00 rear and 17x2.75 front tire size. Not sure if you would want a 3.00 in the front and even if it would fit, if it did fit maybe its worth using a 3.00 in the front also.

You would lose .7" of height at the front tire, or the rear would be .7" higher which may affect geometry. As the 17x3.00 is 23.7" in height vs the 17x2.75" is 22.99" in height. You have to take these things into consideration and who knows if you would ever notice a height difference between the tires?

In order to get the best traction you need to use the 3.00 size on the rear because the 3.00 size tires have a much softer compound compared to the 2.75" and lower sizes. The 3.00 size also has much longer knobs on them as they were probably designed for the rear and the 2.75" and under were designed for front tires.

Those 3.00 size shinko 241 tires are great because the compound is so soft like a bicycle tire and perfect for our light weight bikes. However, the people who use them on heavier gas bikes complain they wear out so fast, but not an issue on our 110 lbs bikes.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by rcmonstermike » Apr 27 2019 1:10pm

Happy with the rim - Perfect size and not heavy. I used 12g spokes(186mm length), but the rim holes are too large so I used some curved washers.
Offroader wrote:
Apr 27 2019 10:49am
rcmonstermike, thank again for the information. I also want to go with the same exact shinko tire. I think that is the perfect size and tire for the bike, especially that the shinko 241 was made to be light weight.

The rear 19x2.75 tire is just too skinny for good traction, it also wears out rather quickly if you drive it on pavement, actually it wears out ridiculously fast because the knobs are so tiny on the tire. Another big issue is I'm noticing that I'm ripping up a lot of grass in areas I ride the Sur-Ron in, like in my local parks. This isn't good :shock: and I believe its due to the crappy traction of the Sur-Ron 19" tire that has almost no traction and just spins so easily, even at high speeds it is still spinning out.

The 18x3.00 size is almost the same size as the stock 19x2.75 tire also. I also use a 17x3.00 shinko 241 on my hub motor bike and just love it and it doesn't seem to ever spin out or damage any grass. I keep my PSI at between 12 and 14 with no issues.

I may use that same rising sun rim, were you happy with the rising sun rim, its quality and weight?

Could you tell me what spoke length you used and what size gauge spokes you used for the build? I may just get 10 gauge spokes, although the 12 gauge have no issues on the bike except seem to come loose rather easily.

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