My recumbent cargo bike

rowbiker said:

Hey Warren -- nice travelogue! It looks like using more regen braking during your fog ride significantly improved your watt hours per mile. This matches nicely with my experience, but your 'sampling rate' of 100+ miles makes for better data. Nice top end speeds, btw -- that's the nice road hugging stability of a LWB recumbent (and I imagine decent road surfaces).

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It actually shows that it is mostly uphill from my house to the cabin. Notice my slowest average speed, and worst Wh/mile, were on the way there, and just the opposite on the way back. The second day's round trip is a better indication of performance, and falls right between the other two days for speed and Wh/mile. During the three days, I was seeing regen running between 5%, and 8% most of the time.

Regen gives a bit back, but the biggest advantage is braking performance. My cargo bike is 130 pounds without the charger, and other camping stuff. At 22,784 miles, I am still on the original Kool Stop orange pads up front, and the original Avid disc pads in the rear. Regen does 98% of my braking.

And yeah, this thing feels like a crouch rocket on good asphalt. Back EMF limits me to 37 mph down a cliff...just as I planned, as I am an idiot.

I love a good down hill on good pavement, on a long wheelbase recumbent like that. Even better with handlebars below the seat. Like laying in bed looking up at the sky going by at 30 mph.

I'm still looking for a chance to try USS -- all four of my recumbents have the over-seat-steering, almost entirely due to the fact that "they came that way". It's not that they're uncomfortable or don't handle well, but I've always 'assumed' that the view is better with the under-seat-steering, and view is a nice thing to have more of.

rowbiker said:

"they came that way"

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So did my Limbo, which I sought out for use with the electric hub motor after the virtues of rear suspension at speed became clear. So I made up my own under-seat steering pivot.


I kind of went overboard with that as metal working project, but I've seen pictures of some nice work that used auto supply muffler clamps and stuff like that. I conveniently already had steering linkage - the Limbo has SWB and CLWB configurations, steering is at the SWB position with linkage to the front for CLWB - but it's no great problem to add a linkage arm to the steering tube.

It's hard to explain why it's so much more fun. The view is part of it, for sure.

Only a small part of it, but I think my hands get less cold in cold weather, better circulation.

I went just the other way. My Linear had USS when I got it. It was OK, I just really prefer OSS. USS makes me think of lying on the hood of a car, hanging on to the windshield wipers for security.

Warren said:

USS makes me think of lying on the hood of a car, hanging on to the windshield wipers for security.

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Warren -- you say that like it's a bad thing ... :|

donn said:

Only a small part of it, but I think my hands get less cold in cold weather, better circulation.

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I hadn't even considered that, but since I do a lot of winter riding and have circulation issues, that might be another plus.

My main concern is, as Warren so poetically suggests above, that you feel like you're less in control of the bike. Obviously that's a subjective thing, but not a negative in your experience. I've got thousands of miles on recumbents, but all with OSS --except for one 500 mile jaunt across Iowa as the stoker on a tandem recumbent with USS -- which doesn't really count for a comparison. I guess I might just need to find a machine locally for a test ride.

The car hood analogy is as accurate as your head wants it to be. The handlebars are not at all like windshield wipers in reality, the seat is nothing like sitting on a car hood. Security blanket. I personally enjoy the unobstructed freedom. Of course there are different ways to set the handlebars up, not just below or above seat but also the tiller vs. linkage driven configurations, and with different wheelbases. Above/below seat might affect control in some way, but certainly not as much the other configuration options do. And then there are different ways to configure below seat handlebars. I started with an old school Vanguard, and that's what I like, essentially straight bars; most common these days seems to be a "cow horn" configuration, with your hands backwards on the brake handles, index finger on the end of the lever. Vision had an underseat tiller.

Looks like a comfortable seat!

donn said:

P1060961.jpg

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High speed office chair. Made by Corbin, well regarded for motorcycle seats. My Vanguard is more of the high speed lawn chair model, mesh sling all the way, and I think that's closer to ideal, but this Burley/Corbin seat is fine - now that the handlebars are below the seat. Above seat did something subtle to abdomen and back posture, and the seat was mildly irritating.

The hottest days are behind us for another year. Been pretty nice the last few weeks. Highs in the 80s F, lows in the 60s F. Haven't determined which specific hall wire it broken, in the external cable.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=101023

But it messes up infrequently enough, and is easy enough to "fix" with a nudge of the cable along the chainstay, that I have put off tearing into it.

Rode to CJ's Ice Cream, above Lake Anna, yesterday, for a shake. My excuse was to check out the replacement bridge on Mt Olive Road. It has been closed for a year, like many bridges around here, it was being raised to deal with more frequent high water. Google showed it as opening today, but it was open yesterday, though some equipment, and port-a-johns were still there...even one sign saying, Open To Local Traffic Only.

93.5 miles, 4:14.58, 21.9 mph ave, 34.9 mph max, 1950.8 Wh, 20.6 Wh/mi, 35.52 Ah, 25,000 miles, so far.

On the 15th, I attended a clean energy event, at the Pavilion, on the walking mall in Charlottesville. I have gone to several of these each of the last two years in the Bolt. But this is the first one that I figured I could ride to, spend 3-4 hours talking EVs, and still ride home before dark. I just checked the local TV news outlet. My recumbent cargo bike appears for a second in their video.

Next year it will be a complete interview of you and the bike! :thumb:

Sitting here in the boiling heat, as the poles melt, this made me smile....if only.

https://youtu.be/kMpqVfnuyII

During the entire video I was thinking, "How did I miss the fact that VanMoof was coming out with an electric car?"

I'm just getting ready to go out on a group ride, and even up here in Minnesota we're starting a bit earlier today because of the heat warnings issued for the day.

Stay safe!

Haven't ridden with another person since 2014. I do stupid stuff when riding with others. Cost me a broken collarbone, and shoulder blade. Haven't been in public without a mask, or closer than six feet from another human, other than my wife, in over three and a half months...probably 18 more months to go. Yeah, this sucks.

Group ride is fine, if you are the leader of the pack. 8)

Depends on where you live too. My towns currently a hot spot. Too close to El paso tx, where they opened bars. All the local flocked down there to get it.

I stuck to my pedal bike for 13 months due to COVID-19. Didn't want to risk having an accident, or breakdown, far from home. We got vaccinated in early March, so I have been back to riding this bike for two months. It sat in our back room. No capacity loss, but I did need to pump up the almost flat tires.

I got caught in the worst rainstorm of my life a few days ago. The beginning and end of the 64 mile ride were in blazing sunshine, but the middle 20 miles was a monsoon! Driving rain so hard it felt like needles, branches flying everywhere. Water got in the Cycle Analyst. It started showing voltage at 100-155 volts, instead of ~55 volts. The battery impedance reading went from typical 0.028-0.038 ohms to 0.288 ohms. At one point it shut down. When it came back on it had lost over 20 miles, and 8 Ah from my ride, and from the lifetime totals. I took it apart and dried it out. Voltage went back to normal immediately. Impedance took a few miles to recalibrate. The lost lifetime miles, and Ah, I was able to manually add back in setup. My regen button on the handlebar was working intermittently. I checked it with my VOM. Contacts had definitely gotten dirty. Spraying contact cleaner into the button fixed that.

Did another 68.5 mile lunch ride today. Rolled into the driveway at 30,000 miles exactly.

Glad that the rain water didn't result in any magic smoke being released. I'm trying to come up with a 'fairing' type of protection for the CA on my new e-recumbent (StreetMachine). Waterproofing for our ebikes remains a challenge, since being caught in a rainstorm is mostly a 'when' and not an 'if', as you proved once again. Maybe I can re-purpose one of my old gopro housings...

The CA3 I'm using on this bike gets its max speed reading scrambled quite frequently, although that must be a firmware issue, not water.

Glad that being fully vaccinated lets us get back on the road -- keep the rubber side down!

rowbiker said:

Glad that the rain water didn't result in any magic smoke being released.

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Yes. This CA had what looked like silicon gasket stuff on the case edges at assembly. I think I recall reading they now have an o-ring seal. I put stretchy 3M electrical tape all around the seam, after I reassembled it. Hopefully that will work better.

Fall started here in Virginia, and right on schedule we are getting perfect blue jeans weather. I was at 31K miles yesterday, when I headed off to the Madison Tastee Freez for lunch. On my way back I was riding the very edge of the pavement, as a line of SUVs and jacked-up pickups went by. I have done this thousands of times. This time, the rear tire slipped off the asphalt, into the grass. I instinctively counter-steered, but of course, it was of no use. As if in slow-motion, I rode down onto the road on the bike's left side. My right foot was still clipped in, and I jerked my foot out of my 25 year old Teva bike sandal to get up as fast as possible. Thankfully, nobody was behind me. I hauled the 130 pound bike off the road, as if it was a carbon road bike. Adrenalin is amazing stuff.

I had a quarter sized abrasion on my left palm, a small cut on the index finger, a few scraps on my forearm and shin, and my left butt cheek was bruised. My 17 year old charity ride jersey was junk, as was my left sock, and the heel straps were ripped loose on both sandals. Pretty minimal, compared to what might have been. The restaurant napkins, and bandaids I always carry, came in very handy.

The left pedal, brake lever, grip, seatback edge, rear motor axle, and the polyethylene cutting board under the Leaf modules, all were ground down a bit. Again, pretty minimal damage.

Had at least three wrecks, I remember, on motorcycles, a dog broke my scapula and clavicle, on my road bike in 2014, a truck mirror hit me in the back while I stood on the road shoulder in 2017, I dropped my first electric-assist bike once in 30K miles of riding it, on gravel, which was more painful.

If I could think of a single other reason to get up in the morning, I would quit riding bikes.

Sorry to hear that you went down. Don't fear it because don't think about it. Very glad it was not worse than it was. Looks like we all thing alike. When we go down first thing we think about is getting out of the road. Then check the damage.
Never thought about caring a First Aid Kit.

Need to take care of that ebike, may want to get it from you when your done with it!

by Warren » Sep 25 2021 9:32am :lol:

Fall started here in Virginia, and right on schedule we are getting prefect blue jeans weather. I was at 31K miles yesterday, when I headed off to the Madison Tastee Freez for lunch. On my way back I was riding the very edge of the pavement as a line of SUVs, and jacked-up pickups went by. I have done this thousands of times. This time, the rear tire slipped off the asphalt, into the grass. I instinctively counter-steered, but of course, it was of no use. As if in slow-motion I rode down onto the road on the bike's left side. My right foot was still clipped in, and I jerked my foot out of my 25 year old Teva bike sandal to get up as fast as possible. Thankfully, nobody was behind me. I hauled the 130 pound bike off the road, as if it was a carbon road bike. Adrenalin is amazing stuff.

I had a quarter sized abrasion on my left palm, a small cut on the index finger, a few scraps on my forearm and shine, and my left butt check was bruised. My 17 year old charity ride jersey was junk, as was my left sock, and the heel straps were ripped loose on both sandals. Pretty minimal, compared to what might have been. The restaurant napkins, and bandaids I always carry, came in very handy.

The left pedal, brake lever, grip, seatback edge, rear motor axle, and the polyethylene cutting board under the Leaf modules, all were ground down a bit. Again, pretty minimal damage.

So I dropped my Linear once in 30K miles of riding it, on gravel, which was more painful. If I could think of a single other reason to get up in the morning, I would quit riding bikes.

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ZeroEm said:

When we go down first thing we think about is getting out of the road.

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Well, actually the first thing I think about, every time I get on a bike, is surely cars are almost over. I thought that back in 1970. My optimism for our species has gone down considerably since then.

Warren said:

Yes. This CA had what looked like silicon gasket stuff on the case edges at assembly. I think I recall reading they now have an o-ring seal.

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If it's one of the old JST connector CAs, water can also wick into the casing thru the housing of the cables (between the wires), or thru the holes in the back that the cables go thru.. Not sure if tha't still an issue with teh Higo type connectors.

Last September I crashed on the left side. Two days ago, I crashed hard on the right side. I was 31 miles into a 62 mile ride. I came off a backroad, at New Canton, onto Rt 15, where they were repaving. I followed the line of cars in the left lane, downhill on the ground down surface. We were most of the way across the bridge over the James River, when we got onto what appeared to be the old asphalt again. I looked over to the right lane. This was in bright afternoon sunshine. It looked, to me, like there was a 2" stripe, and then more old pavement. In a moment of what, in hindsight, was total stupidity, I moved to get in the right lane. I soon realized the the 2" stripe was actually a 2" step...up to the pavement in the right lane. At least a dozen cars, waiting to go in the other direction, were treated to seeing an old fool crash, stagger back up, windbreaker shredded and bloody, blue jeans and underwear ground through, swearing like a sailor, wave, shrug, and take off again. Once off the bridge, I was able to pop back onto a backroad at Bremo Bluff. I put bandaids on the worst forearm cuts. The fist sized roadrash on my right hip wasn't bleeding, seemingly cauterized by the slide. I rode home at WOT. About an hour later, I was in the shower.

My handlebar ends now match...end plugs, and grips ground off at an angle. The rear derailleur got ground down as well. Will need to realign the hanger with my Park alignment tool.

Both times, the side of the seatback frame, and the polyethylene cutting board, under the battery pack, took most of the damage.

I am really thinking I am done this time. I am an old man. My wife is slowly fading too. We barely make one whole person between the two of us. It would be selfish to keep riding at this point.

You can see the bridge I crashed on, in this post back here.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78828&start=25#p1186474

That ride was only 6 years ago. Seems like a hundred years ago now. The world, and I, have gone through hell since then. 33,609 miles on the cargo bike now.