Tesla Model 3

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 27 2019 10:57am

Maybe their focus is somewhere else?? https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/27/te ... eFQk__Bs1A
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 27 2019 11:11am

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 27 2019 12:55am
It depends on your definition of “a lot of Solar” ?
By domestic RT solar standards , yes it “a lot”...but by commercial/industrial standards its hardly a token amount.
Agreed. Definitely more than a token.

Did you mean to say that?
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 27 2019 7:36pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 27 2019 9:25am
So why build empty space?
Well maybe because they have run out of space at the assembly plant.... ( M3 production line in the car park ?), and they say they want to relocate M3 production to GF1, ?
The real question is why have they stopped building construction.?...when the plan was to have the whole site completer by 2020 ,...wasnt it ?
Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 27 2019 9:25am
Why put solar up that will need to be removed to connect infrastructure...?
Yes sure ,.. so they will need to remove most of the roof again , will they ? :roll:
And is that the reason there is no hint of a start on the Wind farm also ?
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 28 2019 7:45pm

fechter wrote:
Apr 24 2019 8:20am
To get a fireball that big, a large section of the pack would need to short. The individual cell fuse wires are supposed to prevent more than one (or a few) cells from blowing in this case. Perhaps the individual cell fuse wires don't perform as advertised.
It does not appear the car is being charged at the time, but hard to say for sure.
Initial “official” report..
A faulty battery was responsible for a Tesla Model S sedan busting into flames over the weekend in Shanghai,

A preliminary investigation determined that a short circuit had caused the fire in a parking garage in the city’s Xuhui District on Sunday, according to an automobile expert from the Chinese government’s General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine who was present at the Tesla service center in Shanghai where the vehicle was inspected.
Tesla have not accepted these findings !
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Chalo » Apr 28 2019 7:56pm

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 28 2019 7:45pm
Tesla have not accepted these findings !
Tesla people aren't as subject to local criminals as local police are (and aren't as criminal as local police are).
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 28 2019 9:01pm

Chalo wrote:
Apr 28 2019 7:56pm
Hillhater wrote:
Apr 28 2019 7:45pm
Tesla have not accepted these findings !
Tesla people aren't as subject to local criminals as local police are (and aren't as criminal as local police are).
But are equally unlikely to admit to any responsibility for a fire. :wink:
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 28 2019 10:25pm

Hillhater wrote:
Apr 28 2019 9:01pm
Chalo wrote:
Apr 28 2019 7:56pm
Hillhater wrote:
Apr 28 2019 7:45pm
Tesla have not accepted these findings !
Tesla people aren't as subject to local criminals as local police are (and aren't as criminal as local police are).
But are equally unlikely to admit to any responsibility for a fire. :wink:
I don't agree with that. They admitted to what caused all the fires so far and have made their cars safer along the way. Remember the trailer hitch that punctured one of the first model S's to catch fire? The explained what happened then added a thick plate below the battery on all future cars to make it better.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » May 01 2019 3:11am

Thought I would post some of the LATEST general Tesla news..

There are over 500 active lawsuits against Tesla, from everything like body repair shops fixing Tesla's and not getting paid, or people not getting their deposit or "7-day full purchase/change their mind refund" money back.
https://twitter.com/PlainSite/status/11 ... 3131264000
https://twitter.com/PlainSite/status/11 ... 5089154049

Here is the latest bigger noteworthy one
Wrongful death lawsuit filed in deadly, fiery Tesla crash in Mountain View
https://abc7news.com/5278752/
Wednesday, May 1st, 2019 12:46PM
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (KGO) -- A lawsuit has been filed in connection with the fiery crash in Mountain View that left an Apple engineer dead.


There has been a massive amount of money exiting Tesla shares from experience fund managers/long time holders, and its only been accelerating.
I guess this is again the classic story where inexperienced retail investors jump in and buy Tesla stock from the exiting funds.
https://twitter.com/Paul_M_Huettner/sta ... 7047367681
Image

You can even just see the official documents of the most senior executives inside Tesla selling millions of dollars worth of their shares just in the last few days when the average retail investor is probably viewing Tesla's stock price as great value now. If you look carefully you can see he sold a lot of his shares at $233, I guess to ensure he gets out. But he was awarded this stock at around $31 a share and has a truckload of them. And he is one of only many executives inside the company who have a lot of shares and have logically only begun to start selling off.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... gardoc.xml



Tesla solar panel business is incredibly loss-making, it's going to try solving the problem by practically giving away the solar panels.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04- ... ory-begins
There is actually a remarkable amount of fraud behind Tesla's solar business and some people are in jail because of it. But Tesla/Elon closest people have managed to stay clear of the mess and managed to "cleanly" pick up the $750million gov grant money.
https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 207459002/

Rich people don't need your money to buy electric cars
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/steve-f ... tax-credit

More articles of Tesla owners complaining it took 6months to get their Tesla repaired for minor damage.
The thing about owning a Tesla no one talks about — nightmarish repair delays
https://www.seattlepi.com/cars/article/ ... ource=t.co
A 2018 Los Angeles Times article noted that at most U.S. automobile dealers, weeks-long waits for routine auto repair are rare, and months-long waits for body parts are practically unheard of for all but the most exotic vehicles. That's because their inventories normally stock spare parts from automakers and after-market manufacturers.
But Tesla does not sell its cars to dealerships like other automakers; it owns and runs retail and service operations.



More "spontaneous combustion stories of Tesla Model-S EVs", I find it disturbing you guys think these are rare one-offs, they keep happening frequently, sure you can argue cars go up in flames all the time and its not news, but for a still rather rare model of car its interesting to see how easy it is to find model-S cars bursting into flames.
The ONLY thing that made the China one special was the CCTV camera was recording BEFORE the fire, unlike the ones that invariably happen that only get photoed/filmed AFTER the fire.
https://twitter.com/PetervErp/status/11 ... 7762248704
https://www.autobahn.eu/12895/tesla-mod ... it-in-oss/

TeslaCharts making "easily absorbable charts" to help show how the demand for Tesla cars has vanished compared to last year.
https://twitter.com/TeslaCharts/status/ ... 3230419969
Image

Tesla Discloses Record Pollution Credits for Q1: Without Them, it Would Have Lost $918 Million and Bled $1.14 Billion in Cash
https://wolfstreet.com/2019/04/29/tesla ... n-in-cash/
Ugly turns uglier as a Tesla filing shows results were goosed by a surge in credits
https://www.latimes.com/business/autos/ ... story.html
^These articles point out that Tesla really lost about $1billion dollars in a single quarter.

Tesla had about 3 years of pent-up orders/demand for Model-3 EVs and sold/delivered them over roughly 2quarters and arguably didn't make money if you include the fact they were based on the selling of emissions reduction credits.
So now, it has the bulk of its pent-up orders delivered, Tesla has turned from a roughly $1billion dollar per-year loss-making company to a full-blown $1billion per-quarter loss-making company

Here is my final link below, really seems to be an increasing thing now on YouTube/Twitter to deliberately leave people "triggered", not as an insult but conversely to help drill through to them, as they tend to be brainwashed by broadcast mainstream media. I really am convinced that there is nothing more invisibly destructive in this world than the concentrated power causing effects of broadcast media, everything must be replaced with IP-streaming only media.

I tried to make the link between energy/co2/costs more easily absorbable in a single post below and how current EVs simply do not reduce emissions and as Ozzie Zehner worded it nicely, its just "bullshit"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1462581
To me this stuff reminds me of what IQ tests are, IQ tests are just puzzles to solve, the harder the puzzle you can answer the more it shows you can absorb the information in front of you and interpret it for a logical/factual answer, this then suggests the higher your IQ is likely to be.
To me, looking at the co2 emissions of the extra metals/elements used to produce a Lithium battery pack and understanding that its equivalent to around roughly 100,000km of combustion vehicle driving on average, is an IQ test/puzzle equivalent elimination test of around 80, in other words, it's not that hard to understand, there is no mystery.
The fact that folks who love EVs and claim they are more environmentally friendly use rebuttal EV articles that ultimately argue that its more or less the same if you charge the EV from a very clean electricity source as their main argument is very disturbing. Ideally, rebuttal articles should be claiming EVs are massively cleaner than ICE vehicles and it should be "night and day clear" to read, instead they just ultimately say "well it's close, but in an ideal world the EV can be viewed as cleaner..", that's just crap.

It's more of an argument of politics, ideology and money rather than anything to do with logic and facts.
Image

Whether you enjoy buying/driving/supporting lithium battery cars just because you like them is an entirely different topic, but there is no logic to me that they currently lower co2 emissions, they just displace co2 emissions elsewhere.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*ADD/EDIT*
Look at this guys summary on Tesla, starts here.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/425838 ... april-2019
But on page 13 has its end summary and it mentions Tesla's total debt which I had wondered about but never bothered looking up.
Tesla has quote "roughly $34 billion in debt".
https://seekingalpha.com/article/425838 ... 19?page=13
Also "while its market cap approximately equals that of Ford and is close to GM’s despite selling approximately 250,000 cars a year while Ford and GM make billions of dollars selling 6 million and 8.4 million vehicles respectively."

That's a lot of debt to make all the EV magic happen and just to end up with a company losing about $1billion per quarter? I guess its a win for the everyday car/EV consumer, unless it's the general public that has to bail out the banks that lent all the money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*ADD/EDIT*
I thought $1billion loss of money per quarter from now one was certain for Tesla but it turns out I am a bit too bearish, this short write up of the situation claims $500million to $1b in range per quarter.
https://twitter.com/TeslaCharts/status/ ... 4479545345
Image

----------------------------------------------
Another Tesla Model S catches fire inside the garage of San Francisco home. For some reason, the Model S Tesla's do catch fire on a remarkably frequent basis and get on the news, who knows, maybe there's a new fire starting up somewhere as I am typing..
https://www.kron4.com/news/national/tes ... 1975931200
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*ADD/EDIT*
I don't know if anyone looks at these but I will put it here anyway.

This Reddit post with this Youtube video inside is very interesting, starts off kind of boring though.
Check these comments or near end of the video, turns out Tesla's computer storage flash/drive writes logs so hard that it wears-out the NAND chip dead, normally this is solved with traditional SSD drives because they use an internal controller and spread the data over around 8 separate flash chips to reduce wear so the drive lasts longer.
But Tesla tried to save money by looks of it and just stuck 1 NAND storage chip their computer and it wears out.
https://youtu.be/o-7b1waoj9Q?t=711
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/co ... _mcu_flaw/

Also in the video, he is taking a wrecked Tesla model 3 and putting its guts into a large van/vehicle.
https://youtu.be/o-7b1waoj9Q?t=289

Here it talks about the fact that Tesla won't replace the worn out nand-flash computer board if its past 3 years warranty, and if you want to buy a new one from Tesla they deliberately force you to buy a whole set of new computer system parts for about $2200, instead of just replacing the single board.
https://youtu.be/o-7b1waoj9Q?t=836
He then talks about the fact that it all makes Tesla cars very difficult and expensive to repair and thus insurance companies are finding less bidders at scrap/resale yards because of the difficulty fixing them. So some insurance companies are electing not to insure Tesla cars at all, this is why Elon is starting his own insurance company for Tesla
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/24/elon-mu ... month.html

Watch the whole video here.


The guy whos actually on video has his own channel here
https://www.youtube.com/user/Ingineerix/videos
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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » May 01 2019 9:07am

The CO2 thing has be debunked over and over and over and over. I have seen this PURE BS spread around on FB for over 10 years.

Yes if your IQ was over 80 you would be able to see this..

https://jalopnik.com/enough-with-the-ac ... D3ohhRpYLY
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » May 01 2019 10:34am

Arlo1 wrote:
May 01 2019 9:07am
The CO2 thing has be debunked over and over and over and over. I have seen this PURE BS spread around on FB for over 10 years.
Yep. I saw the same thing when people claimed that mining the nickel required to make the original Prius battery created environmental damage "worse than building a Ford Expedition." That was pretty quickly debunked as well, but didn't stop the spread of the meme by right wingers.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » May 01 2019 11:03am

If you are going to link a rebuttal article, it will need to be from some one who does not think there are enough batteries in Germany to support the grid when RE fails !
...the entire argument falls flat on its face in a bizarre pratfall just as soon as an ounce of thought is put into it. Electrical grids powered by wind and solar do not just completely collapse as soon as the wind stops blowing or the sun stops shining. Not only are there stacks of traditional batteries to store excess energy for those low times, humanity has devised ingenious ways to store massive amounts of power in ways you might not think, just to get around this notion:...
Maybe he will let germany in on his “ ingenious ways to store massive amounts of power”.. so they can switch off all their coal, gas , and nuclear backup generators !
Truely a “bizarre pratfall”
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » May 03 2019 9:11am

Whats that about the gigafactory 3 Not getting done this year?

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/01/te ... NKpAdMBp6E
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » May 04 2019 2:14am

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » May 07 2019 3:38am

Tesla reveal 93-mile version of the Model 3 ..?
Im having problems understanding this article ?
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... le-version
What am i not getting here ?
Why produce the restricted range version, if the “standard range version IS eligible for the tax concession ?? :?:
Tesla announced a new entry-level version of the Tesla Model 3 for Canada on Wednesday.
The new version is designed to limbo under the $45,000 (Canadian) price cap on Canada's new $5,000 (Canadian) electric-vehicle tax credit, which was itself designed to exclude wealthy Tesla buyers from receiving government rebates for buying their new cars.
The new model, with 93 miles of range, lists for CA$44,999, plus a CA$1,300 delivery charge and CA$10 federal registration fee
....but,. They go on to say...
The Model 3 Standard Range Plus has a range rated in Canada at 386 kilometers (about 240 miles, .....
.......... It lists for CA$55,010 counting mandatory delivery and government fees.

Both versions of the Model 3 are now listed as eligible vehicles for the $5,000 tax credit on Transport Canada's website.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... le-version
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » May 07 2019 9:08am

Hillhater wrote:
May 07 2019 3:38am
Tesla reveal 93-mile version of the Model 3 ..?
Im having problems understanding this article ?
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... le-version
What am i not getting here ?
Why produce the restricted range version, if the “standard range version IS eligible for the tax concession ?? :?:
Tesla announced a new entry-level version of the Tesla Model 3 for Canada on Wednesday.
The new version is designed to limbo under the $45,000 (Canadian) price cap on Canada's new $5,000 (Canadian) electric-vehicle tax credit, which was itself designed to exclude wealthy Tesla buyers from receiving government rebates for buying their new cars.
The new model, with 93 miles of range, lists for CA$44,999, plus a CA$1,300 delivery charge and CA$10 federal registration fee
....but,. They go on to say...
The Model 3 Standard Range Plus has a range rated in Canada at 386 kilometers (about 240 miles, .....
.......... It lists for CA$55,010 counting mandatory delivery and government fees.

Both versions of the Model 3 are now listed as eligible vehicles for the $5,000 tax credit on Transport Canada's website.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... le-version
Canada has a rule for the new $5k federal EV rebate. In order for a car to be eligible it needs to have an option that sells for $45k CDN and the car purchased with options can not be more then $55k

Honestly I think the CDN government made a mistake and the up to $55k thing is an afterthought when they realized only 2 or 3 EVs would have qualified because most EVs purchased new in Canada are over $45k
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Ianhill » May 08 2019 1:23pm

Seems the tegra 3 based cars have an issue catching upto them with too many writes to ram and shortening life, the same is for all cars even with the intel atom but with their new age its not a fault issue yet but still could benifit with the ram writes being reduced to extend life.

Rich rebuilds has a video on it i would advice anyone that owns to take a look and act accordingly.

Tesla is trying to swap the whole brain unit over at a 2000 to 5000k charge when the root cause is a 20 dollar chip that the guy in the video will swap if faulty and modify the instuction set so the new one lasts alot longer for a 3rd of the cheapest price tesla offers.

To me they offer one of the most shambolic parts and repair service ever and its this that would put me off, the car looks to be ok it has its niggles but your screwed with exceptional time waiting and big bills hitting the pocket if/when something goes wrong.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by liveforphysics » May 08 2019 1:36pm

Ianhill wrote:
May 08 2019 1:23pm
Seems the tegra 3 based cars have an issue catching upto them with too many writes to ram and shortening life, the same is for all cars even with the intel atom but with their new age its not a fault issue yet but still could benifit with the ram writes being reduced to extend life.

Rich rebuilds has a video on it i would advice anyone that owns to take a look and act accordingly.

Tesla is trying to swap the whole brain unit over at a 2000 to 5000k charge when the root cause is a 20 dollar chip that the guy in the video will swap if faulty and modify the instuction set so the new one lasts alot longer for a 3rd of the cheapest price tesla offers.

To me they offer one of the most shambolic parts and repair service ever and its this that would put me off, the car looks to be ok it has its niggles but your screwed with exceptional time waiting and big bills hitting the pocket if/when something goes wrong.
I don't know what country you're in with respect to timely service, but in California at least, when your Tesla has an issue, often the next day or two they have dropped off a loaner car for you at your home, picked up your broken Tesla, take it and fix it at no cost (if it's in warranty), then drop it back off at your home when it's fixed and pickup the loaner car.

That's the best service experience I've personally seen for a car company. I realize other places in the world may have a difference service experience, due to not having the same level of service depts and tech and loaner vehicles available locally.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Ianhill » May 08 2019 3:26pm

Its inevitable that ice garages will refuse to work on them becuase most have no clue how to sniff its electrical signals so theres a new breed of digital mechanics i like to call them thats unlocking the locked, Where theres money to be made someone will find a way to cash in.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » May 08 2019 4:09pm

liveforphysics wrote:
May 08 2019 1:36pm
I don't know what country you're in with respect to timely service, but in California at least, when your Tesla has an issue, often the next day or two they have dropped off a loaner car for you at your home, picked up your broken Tesla, take it and fix it at no cost (if it's in warranty), then drop it back off at your home when it's fixed and pickup the loaner car.
Yep. Last time I had a problem with mine I made an appointment and drove over. There was a line of cars waiting to get into the service area - but a guy with a toolkit and a laptop came out and fixed the problem there in the parking lot. Took about 15 minutes.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Ianhill » May 08 2019 4:49pm

I guess all the complaints are just a mix of :-
A, what problem its fine.
B, dumb people with improper understanding.
C oil interests spreading fictional rumours.

Because its right in a few areas doesnt make it right when the product is sold on a global scale the overall global experience suffers due to the technical difficultys getting anything done other than bodyshop work, you can call me what you like but this is fact and ive not been a tesla basher im here because i share an interest in EV and can see the upcoming struggle all manufactrers will have getting decent throughput of accident repairs/ brakedown repair let alone sticking to manufacturing targets, the whole lot got to change complete new body no cutting arms off or stiching up legs a complete new system start to finish needs to be developed over time.

Garages need to align with the manufactures if they stand a chance and get used to the powertrains even if its basic swaping of standard parts and basic can write to install, most modern cars need injector coding and mapping some of these skills are transferable in ways so time is key in this situation with a rise will come a demand and the cash cow will grow big enough for someone to milk it.
Last edited by Ianhill on May 08 2019 4:59pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » May 08 2019 4:56pm

Ianhill wrote:
May 08 2019 4:49pm
Because its right in a few areas doesnt make it right when the product is sold on a global scale
And just because it's wrong in a few areas doesn't make it wrong globally.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Ianhill » May 08 2019 5:17pm

billvon wrote:
May 08 2019 4:09pm
liveforphysics wrote:
May 08 2019 1:36pm
I don't know what country you're in with respect to timely service, but in California at least, when your Tesla has an issue, often the next day or two they have dropped off a loaner car for you at your home, picked up your broken Tesla, take it and fix it at no cost (if it's in warranty), then drop it back off at your home when it's fixed and pickup the loaner car.
Yep. Last time I had a problem with mine I made an appointment and drove over. There was a line of cars waiting to get into the service area - but a guy with a toolkit and a laptop came out and fixed the problem there in the parking lot. Took about 15 minutes.
Just out of interest what courtesy car was provided in you area was it still tesla branded ?
In the uk they normally provide a better model thsn you have to encourage people to upgrade its also under 3rd party fire and theft insurance so if you don't cover it fully comp on your own policy you will have a big bill at your door for damages if lightning stuck twice but in all fairness its in the contract and peoole are made aware un the situation and can refuse the car but it leave them with a cheap ice run around from the insurer while you wait for the repair that could be quite some time from experience of a few costumers.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » May 08 2019 7:16pm

billvon wrote:
May 08 2019 4:56pm
Ianhill wrote:
May 08 2019 4:49pm
Because its right in a few areas doesnt make it right when the product is sold on a global scale
And just because it's wrong in a few areas doesn't make it wrong globally.
Acyually ,..it does !
If the system doesnt work in all areas, then its not a “global” system.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

billvon   10 MW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » May 08 2019 10:21pm

Hillhater wrote:
May 08 2019 7:16pm
Acyually ,..it does !
If the system doesnt work in all areas, then its not a “global” system.
Ah.

So ICE cars don't work; their whole system has failed globally. Good to know. Fortunately we now have an alternative.
--bill von

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » May 09 2019 12:54am

Before you disappear off on one of your random tangent debates,..
..this is a chicken/egg senario where manufacturers are reluctant to release volumes of new technology (EV’s) into regions that do not yet have the support infrastructure to deal with any problems.
At the same time , Dealerships ( the conventional, ..independantly owned model,.. still used by most manufacturers), are reluctant to invest in retraining technicians or new facilities and equipment, to provide the support for EV’s before there is sufficient demand to justify the investment.
There will be a period of transition whilst the market develops and progresses to the new technologies.
It may well take some time...experienced ICE technicians can still have problems identifying the cause of a simple dash warning light ( “Engine Fault”)....even with all the modern computer diagnostics !
( ultimately tracked ..accidently..to a dodgy 12 v battery !)
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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