Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Anything related to food or drink, especially beer
User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by neptronix » Dec 11 2018 3:10pm

That's funny. The federal government also has a hard time finding computer programmers and security researchers because a lot of programmers consume cannabis as well.

Way to perpetuate the stereotype of cannabis users as being lazy people who do not work - simply don't hire them because of what happens when they get home from work. :lol:
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

rumme   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jan 28 2011 7:47pm

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by rumme » Dec 11 2018 4:57pm

neptronix wrote:
Dec 11 2018 3:10pm
That's funny. The federal government also has a hard time finding computer programmers and security researchers because a lot of programmers consume cannabis as well.

Way to perpetuate the stereotype of cannabis users as being lazy people who do not work - simply don't hire them because of what happens when they get home from work. :lol:
There is no doubt, that it affects different people in different ways. I do see a big issue, with complete legalization, then how to make it, so it doesnt result in liability to business owners, who rely on their employees to drive forklifts, or delivery vehicles or use Raymonds for warehouse work, etc.


How can a business owner, be assured that their employee, isnt taking some big puffs, at 7:30 AM, and the employee starts their job at 8 AM, and is feeling the effects all day long ?


I dont smoke it, but I dont think it should be illegal, but there will be hurdles, like the one I mentioned above.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by neptronix » Dec 11 2018 5:20pm

rumme wrote:
Dec 11 2018 4:57pm
How can a business owner, be assured that their employee, isnt taking some big puffs, at 7:30 AM, and the employee starts their job at 8 AM, and is feeling the effects all day long?
Any business owner with their head on straight needs to either supervise their employees directly, or at a larger scale, appoint someone to do so.

If bob smokes a blunt before work and keeps dropping pallets all day or suddenly starts having subpar output, then you need to interrogate bob and mention it and ask what is going on with him.

A variety of things could be going on with bob and a manager needs to know. If a company fails to manage it's employees, it won't last long.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

rumme   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jan 28 2011 7:47pm

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by rumme » Dec 11 2018 5:50pm

neptronix wrote:
Dec 11 2018 5:20pm
rumme wrote:
Dec 11 2018 4:57pm
How can a business owner, be assured that their employee, isnt taking some big puffs, at 7:30 AM, and the employee starts their job at 8 AM, and is feeling the effects all day long?
If a company fails to manage it's employees, it won't last long.
Unfortunately, this isnt always the case.

I worked for a warehouse for almost 20 years . We had over 50 employees at our branch . Our supervisor hardly ever came out of his office . I saw people go out to their truck, at lunch break, and take swigs of hard liquor before coming back to work . Had another guy named Henry, he would regularly walk down to the yard area, where we kept all the heavy steel, and he would pull a joint out and puff it. Had another guy named Joe, that would take about 8 smoke breaks per day and no supervisors said a thing to him . This is just a few examples. By the way, this company, started it business back in the 1940s and is still around today.

Just because a companies employees, isnt at their " peak" output, doesnt mean the company has to go out of business. It does mean, the company will most likely be underperforming in their potential profits.

I have no real horse in this game because I dont smoke it, and never plan to. I do think it should be legalized, but I fully understand the issues that may arise from legalization.

I wouldn't want to be a business owner and have to deal with it, since American workers already have a ton of things that take away productivity from their daily jobs..like spending to much time on their iphones, multiple cigarette breaks , coffee breaks , etc.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by neptronix » Dec 11 2018 6:54pm

Hey, they're still in business despite some degree of incompetency in managing their workforce; not bad.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

dustNbone   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 903
Joined: Mar 13 2016 9:59pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by dustNbone » Dec 11 2018 9:34pm

Well. Weed has been defacto legal here for decades, and actually legal for a couple months now. We don't have a "people getting high on weed and killing other people at work" problem. We also don't have a "people getting high on weed and running people down with their car" problem.

You have legal alcohol. You've basically always had that. All science points to alcohol being a much more dangerous drug, both from a personal health standpoint and from the effects of impairment. It's just not that bad. Your "take a puff at 7:30am and feel it all day" show that you have zero experience with it, that's not how it works. Guy would be sober by first coffee break. And in the mean time, his central nervous system would be working fine, as would his vision, reflexes, cognitive systems, etc.

It's not the same as being drunk by any means at all. His likelihood of having a car accident goes up in the single percentiles vs being sober, instead of orders of magnitude. His likelihood of beating his wife or kids goes down quite a bit. Violence in general is basically a non issue.

I'm not saying there's absolutely nothing to be worried about, but it's really nothing to make a big deal over. Compared to the societal harm done by criminializing people for it, any ill effects brought about by legalizing it are drops in a bucket.

rumme   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jan 28 2011 7:47pm

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by rumme » Dec 12 2018 12:01am

dustNbone wrote:
Dec 11 2018 9:34pm
Well. Weed has been defacto legal here for decades, and actually legal for a couple months now. We don't have a "people getting high on weed and killing other people at work" problem. We also don't have a "people getting high on weed and running people down with their car" problem.

You have legal alcohol. You've basically always had that. All science points to alcohol being a much more dangerous drug, both from a personal health standpoint and from the effects of impairment. It's just not that bad. Your "take a puff at 7:30am and feel it all day" show that you have zero experience with it, that's not how it works. Guy would be sober by first coffee break. And in the mean time, his central nervous system would be working fine, as would his vision, reflexes, cognitive systems, etc.

It's not the same as being drunk by any means at all. His likelihood of having a car accident goes up in the single percentiles vs being sober, instead of orders of magnitude. His likelihood of beating his wife or kids goes down quite a bit. Violence in general is basically a non issue.

I'm not saying there's absolutely nothing to be worried about, but it's really nothing to make a big deal over. Compared to the societal harm done by criminializing people for it, any ill effects brought about by legalizing it are drops in a bucket.
The only negative I mentioned, is that I would not want to be a business owner, having to employee dozens or more people, now knowing they can legally be getting high, 20 minutes before showing up at my workplace, to do their jobs , which surely presents the possibility of their " output and cognitive skills" being impaired.

Yes, you are right, I dont smoke it, but that doesnt mean I havent seen the effects it has on people. I was around countless people that were smoking it, years ago, when I toured in my original rock band, up and down the east coast. So just because I did not engage, does not mean I am totally ignorant about it, and its effects it can have on humans. Shame on you for implying as much. I never drank alcohol either, but that doesnt mean I have not witnessed the effects it has on drinkers and alcoholics.

User avatar
Dauntless   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7729
Joined: May 29 2010 1:49am
Location: Coordinates: 33°52′48″N 117°55′43″W

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by Dauntless » Dec 12 2018 2:04am

neptronix wrote:
Dec 10 2018 3:03pm
Dauntless wrote:
Dec 09 2018 9:34pm
Literally the Chinese we're suffering effects close to smoking marijuana.
Not even.
Even.

Noone at your twelve step program was doing what the Chinese were doing. Opium is nothing compared to morphine, which is nothing compared to heroin, fentanyl, the things they talk about in twelve step programs. You can lump all that in as the same myth as "Violence is a nonissue." rumme can stack the articles up for you, I'll just give you one. https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeadams/ ... 1b0e8c2c3b

Meanwhile, where's the arguments about how everything was fine in China during their opium epidemic? That's what the addicts were saying there, same as with marijuana here. The same arguments about how the opium was so healthy and so good for them back then are so common about marijuana here. We have people here talking about "Medical Marijuana," can you believe? They talk as though it's doing something GOOD for them.

Oh, if you could have heard one of my relatives a year ago, poopooing any talk that marijuana wasn't the miracle drug people needed in their lives. Then he found a new girlfriend. After hearing her talk about her family, (Forgot to ask how many he'd MET by the time he was telling me this) he no longer sings the praises. Reality has its' ways of interrupting a good fantasy. But here he knew my older brother all his life, the ultimate proof that marijuana junkies can be VERY violent. Did he think that ass was some one off?

Such as trying to claim there's statistics on people getting in accidents from alcohol or marijuana. Nobody knows how many people drive on either. But we do know people go to bars to drink then need to drive home. People may smoke at a friends house, but they may drink, too. I've heard people say plenty about having been drinking and they just HAD to go get some whatever to smoke and hence the DUI arrest, I don't recall someone saying they were smoking and just had to run down to get some whiskey. Look what's more addicting. This also really skews the assumptions about the driving. Basically if there WERE accurate numbers, they would change once it was legalized, so the people who make those numbers up will have to come up with new numbers just so they can LOOK like they're working.

I suppose you really just need to talk to this guy I grew up with, lived on the next block. Oops, he lives in that house now, only child, inherited it. Lucky for him. Here was the Spigolli of my high school graduating class. ('Fast Times at Ridgemont High.') Back then he'd be proud of being called that. But he blamed his problems on people not disciplining him enough, literally saying 'If only they'd cracked down on me.' Since then he's come to admit the real problem. But I'm sure you can guess what that is. Even if you ARE smoking it as you read this. He was just another guy whom everyone said that underneath it all, he was a good guy. Even if he had broke into their house.

Mainly I'd say rumme really nailed it talking about trying to employ people. When I worked for a cable company and every single employee who'd been in an accident tested positive for marijuana. I have horses in the race from family and friends, but since I figure I have to start a business if I ever want to work fulltime again it's not easy to be remembering they legalized that crap here in California and of course so many are so stoned they believe that means employers can't test for it, oh yes they CAN. On the other hnd I remember that so many times I'd snagged gigs with places who drugged tested EVERYONE to go to work there, I wonder how many people failed by the time they got to me. One company the answer was 12, as I recall being told. That's how the kid just out of college with not much background yet got the opportunity. I'm sure that will continue.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

User avatar
Dauntless   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7729
Joined: May 29 2010 1:49am
Location: Coordinates: 33°52′48″N 117°55′43″W

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by Dauntless » Dec 14 2018 2:35am

Wow, did the voice of reason REALLY get through to you?

Ah well, you should read this anyway. There's a short summary, or you can read the whole study.

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access ... ?aid=84736
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by neptronix » Dec 14 2018 11:45am

No, i just kinda figured you weren't changing your opinion and thought 'meh, this isn't going anywhere' in regards to your previous reply. But i'll bite..

The one thing i agree with is that physical labor and ~75% of the strains of cannabis containing THC will absolutely not mix well, and cannabis has a long hangover time. Smoke a dopey strain 3 hours before bed and you are still a little fuzzy in the morning and prone to mistakes, even with moderate use. ( but you cannot say this about medical strains or the more energizing ones )

Yet at the same time, physical labor is drudgery and struggle and a substance like cannabis or alcohol sort of fits cooling off from that line of work like a glove. Every auto mechanic i've known drinks alcohol, and quite a bit of it!

Would you be concerned that you had an entire auto shop staff made up of men ranging from the one who drinks alcohol at night to full blown alcoholics? Would it be good justification for going back to prohibition?


I read that last link and alarm bells went off immediately. It is primarily a collection of cherry picked reports.

Included in this paper is the usual scientifically questionable measurements - noting that cannabis was in the blood stream at the time of the crime. The problem with this is that you can detect cannabis in the blood stream up to 25 days.

The truth is that troubled people often use cannabis as a means to calm their minds. One cannot link cause and effect without observing the individual very closely and understanding their use patterns. In none of these cases, did this happen.

Schizophrenics LOVE cannabis because it evens out their insanity better than the handful of pills a schizophrenic is offered as an alternative so that they can "get clean". I know several schizophrenic people who were worse off with the meds. When i was deep in the 12 step mentality, it was one of those things that made me question the idea that everyone should be sober all the time. Bipolar people also had poor results with medication, although neither me nor them would say cannabis was better.

My father has intermittent psychosis, and has always been that way. My mother is prone to depression. Dad liked cannabis and alcohol and is a VERY scary person when he didn't have his. Mom liked antidepressants.

Having been passed down the depression part, i tried antidepressants. I am an extremely peaceable person and the only time i have physically harmed another human being was defending myself in a fight i didn't start at age 8.

On my second day on zoloft, i was at work and and broke into laughter thinking about how funny it would be to shoot the place up. The crazy thing is that i couldn't talk myself out of that thought. I had an extremely loose grip on who i was VS. what the drug was doing to me. Even under the influence of psychedelics, i had more control over my mind and could at the very least, steer the hallucinations.

The zoloft was flushed down the toilet that night. I am still haunted by those thoughts, 19 years later, and become extremely scared of myself whenever i am angry. It is the most traumatizing thing in my entire life, and i grew up with mentally ill parents; one who was very abusive.

Most people in psychology would prefer that people took antidepressants than used cannabis. It is a mentality i will never agree with, and i think it is based in ignorance. So your paper coming from a psychologist is a problem for me.

I could do the reverse thing and point out that the vast majority of mass shooters were taking antidepressants of the SSRI type ( just like zoloft ). I could say that SSRIs make you a murderous person, ignoring the fact that 99.9% of SSRI users don't harm a fly. I would be just as wrong.

My guess with the mass shooters is that they were on the drug so long that they forgot who they were, and had the same reaction as me, but lost their frame of reference as to how their mind should work.

However, homocidal and suicidal ideation are now listed as side effects of these drugs. Although a majority of people in psychology and psychiatry won't bat an eyelash at that because these are 'legal' and 'approved' drugs.

Troubled people are likely to abuse substances. Sometimes that substance is sugar. Sometimes it's gambling. Sometimes it's heroin. Sometimes it's cannabis. Sometimes it's pharmaceutical drugs with rare but terrifying side effects. They're going to find a way to escape from the pain of existence. It's often wrong to point the finger at the substance used; substance use is a symptom.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

billvon   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2852
Joined: Sep 16 2007 9:53pm
Location: san diego

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by billvon » Dec 14 2018 12:51pm

neptronix wrote:
Dec 11 2018 5:20pm
If bob smokes a blunt before work and keeps dropping pallets all day or suddenly starts having subpar output, then you need to interrogate bob and mention it and ask what is going on with him.

A variety of things could be going on with bob and a manager needs to know. If a company fails to manage it's employees, it won't last long.
I'd also add that it depends on the job.

If you're a pilot? It's an absolute no, and drug testing to deal with the problem of pilots getting high could make sense. A car mechanic? Probably a good idea to not smoke before work, but if someone does and manages it OK, maybe not worth making a big deal about it. If you are a writer for Rolling Stone? Might not matter one bit. Heck, it might improve your output.
--bill von

User avatar
tomjasz   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4100
Joined: Mar 29 2014 1:45pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by tomjasz » Dec 14 2018 1:40pm

billvon wrote:
Dec 14 2018 12:51pm
=
I'd also add that it depends on the job.

Yup, some mindless job where there's no possibility of anyone else or property being damaged. A writer, perhaps but that would depend on the variety and how used.I busted any tree worker or crane project worker (20-35 ton loads up 200") without impunity. I have more sympathy for the alcoholic given the physical dependency. Pot at work? WTF! Grow up. I waited through 25 years of HAIR testing to have a puff and was bored. MEH. I do hope medical, true medical comes to Minnesota as totally legal. I believe cannabis will eliminate several very destructive drugs. Some pain meds and many of those evil antidepressants. Read the side effects of drugs like Cymbalta. EVIL SHIT, prescribed by those practicing medicine.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

User avatar
Dauntless   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7729
Joined: May 29 2010 1:49am
Location: Coordinates: 33°52′48″N 117°55′43″W

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by Dauntless » Dec 21 2018 12:39pm

billvon wrote:
Dec 14 2018 12:51pm
. . . . a writer for Rolling Stone? Might not matter one bit. Heck, it might improve your output.
As much of that is fiction, I guess it's a question of what you think is "Improved."

Thinking it out to the relevant information is 'Cherry picking?" Do you make the same echo chamber complaint and people saying what you want them to say?

Instead of things plucked out of this air how about the things we at least know to be true? Does the idea of further desta ilizinf the unstable, on and off drugs in an unpredictable after too 'Cherry' in it's truth? If the study refers to '24 hours or less' does it even matter to bring up it's presence for 600 hours

I do like to stick to reasonable, unreasonable such as the MSN echo chamber where someone who steps out of the mantra chant gets shouted down is unworthy. Van Jones and his shouting "Shut up" when he's caught making a fool of himself should be banished there, but CNN isn't much better.

You can't dismiss the truth, but people try. And get upset when they fail.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

User avatar
methods   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4532
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by methods » Jan 02 2019 10:32am

I did not read the thread, so probably should not post, but here is some factual data:

* Utah, specifically Salt Lake City, is actually less than 50% Mormon. Compare that to some traditionally Christian cities.

* Utah just passed the gnarliest DUI law in the country. .05 IIRC.

* In the startup community (aka... where reality is created... Bay Area, CA) people smoke pot and do all sorts of shit. It is just normal and expected. You wont see some guy smoking a blunt in the parking lot tho... because... doing so results in failure to keep up with the fast pace. Work hard, play hard, is what you will see from top performers at every level.

Have fun

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by neptronix » Jan 02 2019 12:16pm

Yes, that DUI law is horrific. I believe that the intent of the law is to scare out the non-mormons... because they are starting to take over the state, and will eventually outvote the diehard mormon leadership and displace them forever.

DUI gets you in more trouble than running a prostitution ring or having an out of control opiate problem here. I know, because i've worked very closely with the lawmen here ( unfortunately ).

Ironically, i live here because of the mormon culture. Outside of Salt Lake City, you will find quiet, clean, respectful, and beautiful places with a very low cost of living and high quality of life. With the downside of being judged and discriminated against for not appearing to be, or acting like a mormon would.

As an introvert with an opposition to how 99% of human beings think, i don't mind the latter negative aspect whatsoever.

I could really care less what the laws are. I'll continue to have a bit of cannabis at night to cool my brain off after a day of wrenching every available drop of it from writing code. I know that cannabis will be legal at the federal level one day, and any "criminal" offense garnered by doing so will be wiped off the record in time.

Alcohol is not worth the risk to me. But i feel bad for those who have their lives destroyed over a single beer. We don't get to vote on these things though.

This is a laughable attempt by the mormon mafia to get their way, when their influence on society is shrinking and their membership continues to dwindle. People will remember this..
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

Electric Earth   1 W

1 W
Posts: 61
Joined: Nov 11 2018 8:02pm

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by Electric Earth » May 14 2019 9:51pm

That DUI law is insane. My god. They're really gonna be upset once they realize that most stoners think they drive better when they're high...

I think that the "It's all good. Weed is totally harmless" attitude is the main problem with legalization. Personally I don't care if it's legal or not. I see it basically as the same as drinking. I'm a drinker. My best friend is a smoker. The main difference between the two drugs seems to be that everyone knows you shouldn't drink and drive. Everyone knows you shouldn't go to work drunk. Everyone knows alcohol is for fun, and if you do it constantly, that's a problem. It's bad to get addicted and just be drunk all the time while life happens around you. It often dampens your life experience.

Weed smokers have a "It's all good, man. I actually ___ better when I'm high." attitude. It seems to be across the board. Every stoner you talk to acts like it's no big deal to drive around high. So they go to work completely stoned. Or they drive completely stoned. Or they just stay stoned all of their waking hours. So many people that smoke weed wake up and start smoking, and don't stop until they go to bed. That's not good. Just like people realize that alcohol is a recreational thing, that you shouldn't do certain things while drunk, or be drunk all of the time, people need to realize those things about weed. But weed is new to legalization, so it's gonna take a while to work things out.

Electric Earth   1 W

1 W
Posts: 61
Joined: Nov 11 2018 8:02pm

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by Electric Earth » May 14 2019 10:00pm

I feel bad for those who have their lives destroyed over a single beer. We don't get to vote on these things though.
This is something that's Insane to me. So many states have Crazy DUI laws these days. You'd be better off driving around on heroin than alcohol. At least then you'd get busted for heroin and reckless driving or something. You can be driving fine, speeding a little, be completely fine and blow a .08(because most people that drink regularly aren't intoxicated at .08). Now, in a lot of states, your life is basically over. You're tens of thousands of dollars in debt, can't get to work, and I think in a lot of places automatically lose your license for a year+(basically leave you jobless and have to move and leave near a grocery store and your new job?). Thank god I've never gotten a DUI, and now just bike everywhere. Yet they're putting TVs and entertainment systems on car dashboards... :roll: The alcohol companies really need to step up their government funding so this nonsense will stop.
Last edited by Electric Earth on May 14 2019 10:02pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MJSfoto1956   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 701
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by MJSfoto1956 » May 15 2019 7:15am

Dauntless wrote:
Dec 12 2018 2:04am
Meanwhile, where's the arguments about how everything was fine in China during their opium epidemic? That's what the addicts were saying there, same as with marijuana here. The same arguments about how the opium was so healthy and so good for them back then are so common about marijuana here. We have people here talking about "Medical Marijuana," can you believe? They talk as though it's doing something GOOD for them.
My goodness, such a revolting revisionist retelling of history. This from Britannica:
Early in the 18th century the Portuguese found that they could import opium from India and sell it in China at a considerable profit. By 1773 the British had discovered the trade, and that year they became the leading suppliers of the Chinese market. The British East India Company established a monopoly on opium cultivation in the Indian province of Bengal, where they developed a method of growing opium poppies cheaply and abundantly. Other Western countries also joined in the trade, including the United States, which dealt in Turkish as well as Indian opium. Britain and other European countries undertook the opium trade because of their chronic trade imbalance with China. There was tremendous demand in Europe for Chinese tea, silks, and porcelain pottery, but there was correspondingly little demand in China for Europe’s manufactured goods and other trade items. Consequently, Europeans had to pay for Chinese products with gold or silver. The opium trade, which created a steady demand among Chinese addicts for opium imported by the West, solved this chronic trade imbalance. The East India Company did not carry the opium itself but, because of the Chinese ban, farmed it out to “country traders”—i.e., private traders who were licensed by the company to take goods from India to China. The country traders sold the opium to smugglers along the Chinese coast. The gold and silver the traders received from those sales were then turned over to the East India Company. In China the company used the gold and silver it received to purchase goods that could be sold profitably in England.
In other words, the West was the pusher. And the "Opium Wars" in the late 1800s were China's attempt to rid itself of the source of its addiction -- which the West was not going to allow. It took the Communists to finally eradicate the addiction in 1949.
EVs have fewer externalities than ICE vehicles. In the long run, it is the only way forward.

User avatar
Dauntless   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7729
Joined: May 29 2010 1:49am
Location: Coordinates: 33°52′48″N 117°55′43″W

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by Dauntless » May 15 2019 10:09am

Electric Earth wrote:
May 14 2019 9:51pm
That DUI law is insane. My god. They're really gonna be upset once they realize that most stoners think they drive better when they're high...
I would guess they already do get it about that and think this is the solution. That's what government does, passes laws that fix EVERYTHING.
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
May 15 2019 7:15am
Dauntless wrote:
Dec 12 2018 2:04am
Meanwhile, where's the arguments about how everything was fine in China during their opium epidemic?
My goodness, such a revolting revisionist retelling of history.
Ummm, no.
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
May 15 2019 7:15am
In other words, the West was the pusher.


In other words, such a revolting putting your foot in your mouth AGAIN. Completely unrelated to what I said, but still making me out right. You should READ up on the outrage in England before there ever was a war at the ongoing opium trade. (Oh, wait, reading. That's like with books and stuff, right?) The Opium wars were NOT about China trying to rid itself of opium, though people who like to tout their ignorance of history like saying things such as that and something about the American Civil War being over slavery and other nonsense. It was actually not so different from the trade tiffs of today, as well as officials in China trying to gain power and touching off the big one.

But why do you even want to bother going so far off topic to get egg on your face? Isn't there plenty of egg available for your face staying within the topic?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by neptronix » May 15 2019 11:33am

A majority of deaths and injuries on the road here in Utah are due to people using cell phones while driving. At any given stop light, you will see multiple people messing with their phones. You will see people swerving about on the highway, and they always have a phone in their hand. It is not enforced whatsoever.

Because of the insane DUI laws, you are better off getting caught driving under the influence of illegal drugs.
I am not a fan of alcohol but i would agree that they are unfair and counterproductive.

If the severity of these laws was adjusted for risk to others on the road, our government would throw cell phone users in jail and suspend or remove their driving privileges. Then, they'd have to go to a 12 step meetings for a few years and eventually prove that they have broken their smartphone addiction, and pay thousands of dollars in legal fees, in order to be able to drive again.

In Utah, the law stands as a rolling witch-hunt against those who do not conform to mormon ideals. The extreme severity, is in no way an accident.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

User avatar
MJSfoto1956   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 701
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by MJSfoto1956 » May 15 2019 11:47am

Dauntless wrote:
May 15 2019 10:09am
... though people who like to tout their ignorance of history like saying things such as that and something about the American Civil War being over slavery and other nonsense.
Ah, now the willful ignorance is on full display. Thank you for making it clear to all.

M
EVs have fewer externalities than ICE vehicles. In the long run, it is the only way forward.

User avatar
Dauntless   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7729
Joined: May 29 2010 1:49am
Location: Coordinates: 33°52′48″N 117°55′43″W

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by Dauntless » May 15 2019 10:31pm

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/us/tiger ... index.html

Well, we have a high profile case that's going to do some crunching on the issue.
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
May 15 2019 11:47am
]Ah, now the willful ignorance is on full display. Thank you for making it clear to all.

M
You're welcome. Glad you got the point, finally. Apparently getting moderated for your use of historical fiction attempting to cause trouble didn't get through.
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
May 15 2019 7:15am
This from Britannica:
I might suggest you learn what I learned in grade school: People aren't impressed when you use, let alone QUOTE, an encyclopedia. It's like signing a confession that you'd never even HEARD of the subject before.
Last edited by Dauntless on May 16 2019 12:05pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

User avatar
MJSfoto1956   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 701
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by MJSfoto1956 » May 16 2019 7:40am

Dauntless wrote:
May 15 2019 10:31pm
Glad you got the point, finally.
What point? That the Liberal North somehow started the Insurgency of 1861? Talk about delusional.

M

P.S. "Lost Causer's" favorite movie: "Birth of a Nation" -- DL likely watched it more than a dozen times during his formative years.
P.P.S To keep things on track, that movie was filmed during an era when cannabis was legal everywhere.

Image
Last edited by MJSfoto1956 on May 16 2019 1:15pm, edited 3 times in total.
EVs have fewer externalities than ICE vehicles. In the long run, it is the only way forward.

User avatar
Dauntless   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7729
Joined: May 29 2010 1:49am
Location: Coordinates: 33°52′48″N 117°55′43″W

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by Dauntless » May 16 2019 12:28pm

Well, there you go, you're proving yourself a liar. And that you just want to make trouble, which is the only thing you're on track with. Oh, you definitely proved time and again you're looking for any opportunity to turn things ugly. Cannabis being legal when they made 'Birth of a Nation' is a GOOD thing? You wanna bring back those days, eh?

Unfortunately, when someone finds the board and immediately sees YOUR posts, you make a bad impression for the whole place. Some people think you getting taken apart is entertaining, but I don't agree: The damage you do is not undone when you get your upbraiding. Though it's important that new people see that we realize you're not normal.

Which is why I don't go along with these fake 'Shakespearian Clown' characters that moderators create on such boards. A few names here I can't help but suspect. But I don't think that's you. I think you really are some fool who goes through life thinking this is all kewl. (If they tricked me into believing, I just don't see how that's to be proud of.) Although I could take a guess for at least one other name you might post as.

Oh, your claim of the Liberal North insurgency of 1861, are you sure you didn't mean 1857? (Often considered the beginning.) The invasion of Kansas, the Vietnam like proxy war that had been going for 4 year by the time Fort Sumner was fired on? Churches in New England states shipping rifles in boxes labeled as bibles? 'Bleeding Kansas?' Jayhawkers? Red Legs? (That started before 1857, actually.) Leading to the formation of Quantrill's Raiders? (With Jesse and Frank James.) How many feet do you really have? I know you MUST have more than one mouth they go in. (Or is that other opening. . . ?)

Liberal North Insurgency. Well, darn, in your ignorance you actually got something almost RIGHT,even if you did screw up getting it. . . .

Image
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

billvon   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2852
Joined: Sep 16 2007 9:53pm
Location: san diego

Re: Even the mormon capital of the USA has legalized medicinal cannabis..

Post by billvon » May 16 2019 12:37pm

Dauntless wrote:
Dec 21 2018 12:39pm
billvon wrote:
Dec 14 2018 12:51pm
. . . . a writer for Rolling Stone? Might not matter one bit. Heck, it might improve your output.
As much of that is fiction, I guess it's a question of what you think is "Improved."

Thinking it out to the relevant information is 'Cherry picking?" Do you make the same echo chamber complaint and people saying what you want them to say? Instead of things plucked out of this air how about the things we at least know to be true? Does the idea of further desta ilizinf the unstable, on and off drugs in an unpredictable after too 'Cherry' in it's truth?
That was . . . incomprehensible. Have you been partaking? (Not that that's a bad thing!)
--bill von

Locked