New 4800W Cyclone?

SwampDonkey · Apr 27, 2019

Hey everyone. I hear tell that Cyclone is now selling a 4800W version of our beloved king of mid drives. Is this an entirely new motor is is it just the 4000W with a new controller? I've heard rumors of metal planetary gears. Anyone else hear about this? Also, how much power can the 4000W and 7500W reliably handle at the top end?

Tommm · Apr 27, 2019

SwampDonkey said:
Hey everyone. I hear tell that Cyclone is now selling a 4800W version of our beloved king of mid drives. Is this an entirely new motor is is it just the 4000W with a new controller? I've heard rumors of metal planetary gears. Anyone else hear about this? Also, how much power can the 4000W and 7500W reliably handle at the top end?

Where did you see this? The 3000w cyclone can do 72v@70-80a peak (~5700w), the 4000w one around 100a peak (~7200w). The weight shedding ability of the cyclones aren't great, so the continuous rated 40a(~2800w) and 45a(~3200w) would seem fair to me.

The 7500w is a different beast, it would handle 15kw just fine.

The planetary gears have been available for some time already and can be asked to be included if you order from cyclone. It is mandatory if you plan on doing 60a or above.

https://elite-motor.com/3pcs-gears-for-200-1680w-planetary-gear-box.html

SwampDonkey · Apr 27, 2019

Tommm said:
SwampDonkey said:

Hey everyone. I hear tell that Cyclone is now selling a 4800W version of our beloved king of mid drives. Is this an entirely new motor is is it just the 4000W with a new controller? I've heard rumors of metal planetary gears. Anyone else hear about this? Also, how much power can the 4000W and 7500W reliably handle at the top end?

Click to expand...

Where did you see this? The 3000w cyclone can do 72v@70-80a peak (~5700w), the 4000w one around 100a peak (~7200w). The weight shedding ability of the cyclones aren't great, so the continuous rated 40a(~2800w) and 45a(~3200w) would seem fair to me.

The 7500w is a different beast, it would handle 15kw just fine.

The planetary gears have been available for some time already and can be asked to be included if you order from cyclone. It is mandatory if you plan on doing 60a or above.

https://elite-motor.com/3pcs-gears-for-200-1680w-planetary-gear-box.html

Its on their Cyclone-tw.com site.
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/2chkit.html. About halfway down the page. And the gears in your link were plastic. The metal one were for the cyclone Mini I believe.

Tommm · Apr 27, 2019

SwampDonkey said:
Its on their Cyclone-tw.com site.
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/2chkit.html. About halfway down the page. And the gears in your link were plastic. The metal one were for the cyclone Mini I believe.

One of the pictures shows metal gears, the website isn't great anyway, I order stuff by just mailing them. I have metal gears in my 4kw motor, because I asked for it and I checked it.

About the 4800w motor we can't know for sure until someone asks them.

SwampDonkey · Apr 28, 2019

Tommm said:
SwampDonkey said:

Its on their Cyclone-tw.com site.
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/2chkit.html. About halfway down the page. And the gears in your link were plastic. The metal one were for the cyclone Mini I believe.

Click to expand...

One of the pictures shows metal gears, the website isn't great anyway, I order stuff by just mailing them. I have metal gears in my 4kw motor, because I asked for it and I checked it.

About the 4800w motor we can't know for sure until someone asks them.

Ok, I emailed them. It IS an all new motor with even more power than the 4Kw.

The 4.8kw and 4 kw motor is different motor, not just controller.
Same 60 A controller, 4.8kw motor has 20% more in torque and output them 4kw motor, the nylon gear can’t take over 40 a current, so it need steel gear

Best
Paco

AND it has steel gears. I asked if I could buy a set of the new gears but he didnt respond to that part of my question. Looks like we got a new cyclone!

Grantmac · Apr 28, 2019

I'd like to see dimensions on this new motor. More torque with the same controller might let me skip the gearbox entirely if the motor can physically fit.

SwampDonkey · Apr 28, 2019

Grantmac said:
I'd like to see dimensions on this new motor. More torque with the same controller might let me skip the gearbox entirely if the motor can physically fit.

Yeah, I asked him and he didnt answer. Took 3 tries to get a price out of him lol. $70 for the steel replacement gears. If you email this guy, dont ask more than one question per email. He answers the first one and ignores the rest, apparently lol.

It seems like it couldnt just be a wider Cyclone. I have the 4Kw and its at the limit of width I want on my bike. Maybe a rewind of the 4kw? I wanna see this thing.

Tommm · Apr 28, 2019

Grantmac said:
I'd like to see dimensions on this new motor. More torque with the same controller might let me skip the gearbox entirely if the motor can physically fit.

Same here. I would like to see the 4kw and the 4.8kw next to each other. Seeing how apparently there is a 4.8kw coaxial version in addition to the 4kw coaxial one... And it looks exactly the same...
https://youtu.be/T8OM8SBsS1Y

Tommm · Apr 28, 2019

SwampDonkey said:
Grantmac said:

I'd like to see dimensions on this new motor. More torque with the same controller might let me skip the gearbox entirely if the motor can physically fit.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I asked him and he didnt answer. Took 3 tries to get a price out of him lol. $70 for the steel replacement gears. If you email this guy, dont ask more than one question per email. He answers the first one and ignores the rest, apparently lol.

It seems like it couldnt just be a wider Cyclone. I have the 4Kw and its at the limit of width I want on my bike. Maybe a rewind of the 4kw? I wanna see this thing.

$70 for the gears is a lot. He sent mine for free inside the motor. The way you buy from him is to list a few items you'd like and ask for a total. You get at least 30% off.

SwampDonkey · Apr 28, 2019

Tommm said:
SwampDonkey said:

Grantmac said:

I'd like to see dimensions on this new motor. More torque with the same controller might let me skip the gearbox entirely if the motor can physically fit.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I asked him and he didnt answer. Took 3 tries to get a price out of him lol. $70 for the steel replacement gears. If you email this guy, dont ask more than one question per email. He answers the first one and ignores the rest, apparently lol.

It seems like it couldnt just be a wider Cyclone. I have the 4Kw and its at the limit of width I want on my bike. Maybe a rewind of the 4kw? I wanna see this thing.

Click to expand...

$70 for the gears is a lot. He sent mine for free inside the motor. The way you buy from him is to list a few items you'd like and ask for a total. You get at least 30% off.

You bought a kit and got steel gears with it? You have one of these 4800W cyclones, or something else? And yeah, 70 is way too much.

Tommm · Apr 28, 2019

SwampDonkey said:
You bought a kit and got steel gears with it? You have one of these 4800W cyclones, or something else? And yeah, 70 is way too much.

I have a 4kw coaxial motor(and bike). The metal gear is said to be a bit louder but the square wave controller I have is much louder than the motor.

amberwolf · Apr 28, 2019

SwampDonkey said:
Hey everyone. I hear tell that Cyclone is now selling a 4800W version of our beloved king of mid drives. Is this an entirely new motor is is it just the 4000W with a new controller? I've heard rumors of metal planetary gears.

That's something you would have to ask Cyclone about. If they are (or aren't) selling them on their own site, then that answers the question without any futher inquiry. Everything other than what Cyclone says is just going to be more hearsay and rumors.

Whenever you find a manufacturer or seller that won't answer questions, etc., you've just found another one to add to your list of "never buy from this one". That prevents you from having post-sale problems with warranty replacements, spare parts, etc. (because if they won't answer pre-sale questions, they for sure are going to ignore you after the sale because they already have your money!).

SwampDonkey · Apr 29, 2019

amberwolf said:
SwampDonkey said:

Hey everyone. I hear tell that Cyclone is now selling a 4800W version of our beloved king of mid drives. Is this an entirely new motor is is it just the 4000W with a new controller? I've heard rumors of metal planetary gears.

Click to expand...

That's something you would have to ask Cyclone about. If they are (or aren't) selling them on their own site, then that answers the question without any futher inquiry. Everything other than what Cyclone says is just going to be more hearsay and rumors.

Whenever you find a manufacturer or seller that won't answer questions, etc., you've just found another one to add to your list of "never buy from this one". That prevents you from having post-sale problems with warranty replacements, spare parts, etc. (because if they won't answer pre-sale questions, they for sure are going to ignore you after the sale because they already have your money!).

I talked to Paco. From his email:

- New motor in the form factor of the 4Kw (195mm).
- Redesigned rotor and coils give 20% MORE power than the 4Kw of the same size.
- It eats plastic gears very quickly, so these (below) gears were produced for this motor. They are steel, not some kind of cast or sintered metal.

Tommm · Apr 29, 2019

SwampDonkey said:
I talked to Paco. From his email:

- New motor in the form factor of the 4Kw (195mm).
- Redesigned rotor and coils give 20% MORE power than the 4Kw of the same size.
- It eats plastic gears very quickly, so these (below) gears were produced for this motor. They are steel, not some kind of cast or sintered metal.

Very interesting. So it seems like compared to the 3kw the 4kw had a ~30% wider motor core(physically verified on this forum), but there was space to do an extra ~20% in the same form factor for both the regular and the coaxial model. With the coiling being changed, I wonder if the kV stayed the same?
I also wonder if the freewheel can take the torque too... Seeing how cyc is upgrading them from 75nm max to 150nm max.

SwampDonkey · Apr 30, 2019

Tommm said:
SwampDonkey said:

I talked to Paco. From his email:

- New motor in the form factor of the 4Kw (195mm).
- Redesigned rotor and coils give 20% MORE power than the 4Kw of the same size.
- It eats plastic gears very quickly, so these (below) gears were produced for this motor. They are steel, not some kind of cast or sintered metal.

Click to expand...

Very interesting. So it seems like compared to the 3kw the 4kw had a ~30% wider motor core(physically verified on this forum), but there was space to do an extra ~20% in the same form factor for both the regular and the coaxial model. With the coiling being changed, I wonder if the kV stayed the same?
I also wonder if the freewheel can take the torque too... Seeing how cyc is upgrading them from 75nm max to 150nm max.

Was there really that much room left in the 4Kw? Someone needs to grab one of these new super-cyclones and do a teardown on here so we can see these new internals. That freewheel does seem like a weakpoint.

Tommm · Apr 30, 2019

SwampDonkey said:
Was there really that much room left in the 4Kw? Someone needs to grab one of these new super-cyclones and do a teardown on here so we can see these new internals. That freewheel does seem like a weakpoint.

There was a bit of room, you could just about fit a PAS sensor inside the motor with the coaxial motor.
But since writing that I have discovered these new 4.8 models at the bottom also include PAS.
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html
So it must be magnet size and count and/or copper fill... Or nothing at all. I'd also like to know what changed if any on the gearbox side. I think I will write him too with some specific questions.

joshuahuang · May 2, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHB26fDkhCM

Skaiwerd · May 2, 2019

That swingarm looks beefy. The ability to just purchase swingarm and motor/controller only kit is a big plus. They sell the belts and pulleys separately also going by the YouTube comments. This could be the start of some interesting builds.

Tommm · May 2, 2019

Skaiwerd said:
That swingarm looks beefy. The ability to just purchase swingarm and motor/controller only kit is a big plus. They sell the belts and pulleys separately also going by the YouTube comments. This could be the start of some interesting builds.

Yea, anyone who has an eeb build with a hub can switch to mid drive in an hour.

SwampDonkey · May 2, 2019

joshuahuang said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHB26fDkhCM

Sweet. Also not as loud as I imagined. How well are these belts holding up?

Tommm · May 2, 2019

SwampDonkey said:
joshuahuang said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHB26fDkhCM

Click to expand...

Sweet. Also not as loud as I imagined. How well are these belts holding up?

In his vids with a smaller rear cog, it was skipping. With the same size front/rear and proper tension it would be fine. The gearing in this case is quite tall, forget wheelies, but you can do 50mph+. Ideally the rear cog would be a bit bigger than the front one.

Skaiwerd · May 20, 2019

Do you see it, a diy motoped?

Genuine Honda crf70 frame is $309

Any one know the steerer tube diameter on these bikes?

SwampDonkey · May 20, 2019

Skaiwerd said:
Do you see it, a diy motoped?

Genuine Honda crf70 frame is $309

Any one know the steerer tube diameter on these bikes?

See it where?

Skaiwerd · May 20, 2019

Ok I should have used imagine.

Basically figure out how to mount the cyclone 4.8kw coaxial and possibly also the swingarm to this frame. This could be an alternative to the Enduro frame. It’s obviously not going to be bolt on and go by any means. Combining the motor with the cranks clears up a lot of space.

Tommm · May 20, 2019

Skaiwerd said:
Ok I should have used imagine.

Basically figure out how to mount the cyclone 4.8kw coaxial and possibly also the swingarm to this frame. This could be an alternative to the Enduro frame. It’s obviously not going to be bolt on and go by any means. Combining the motor with the cranks clears up a lot of space.

Maybe you could use enduro frame swingarm with the cyclone 4.8/7.5kw inside of it.

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