My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Hey All,
I was just wondering what kind of manuals everyone received with there AM2000 bike. I didn't get anything on the controller or the motor. Also the front axel came with the STOP warning stating the axel position was critical and to refer to the manual. I did not receive any manual on this. The front brakes are making an annoying noise and also shudder on hard stops. Any help on this would be appreciated.
Thanks
 
Thanks for the write up on the new bike!

I'm still working out a few things (like a lack of a seat) and slight rubbing on the front wheel disc brake.

I was wondering if you had a chance to test out the throttle? While the power does come on progressively when pedaling, the throttle seems to be max on or completely off. There is no gradient in the throttle (unlike my other ebike where you can modulate the throttle).

I'm researching this and tried looking it up... it appears it's possible to have a gradual throttle.
 
Sinbord1981 said:
So I got out for my first proper ride on my new Frey AM1000 V5 Bafang eBike (52V 17.5ah). I thought I would write up a quick report! This is coming to you from the United Kingdom.

I went out with my local cycle club on a road ride with them (8 of us altogether) purely to get a proper feel for the bike, its functionalities and how it rides. They are all fit blokes and gals on road bikes. I am very pleased with it to say the least! Next will be a proper off-road mountain bike ride - again to ascertain how it behaves and whether the gearing suits me (I've already ordered a two-tooth bigger chainring to gear it up slightly).

The power comes in seamlessly. The bike is very heavy compared to my other non-eBikes but I found that with it on the lowest Eco mode and assist level 1, it was enough power to overcome its own weight on the climbs and allow me to ride comfortably within the group whilst also giving me a moderate work out. I did a 40 mile route with the group, averaging 16mph, max-ing out at ~38mph. There was a moderate amount of climbing and descending today - overall 2,200 feet elevation on the whole 40 mile route. My 52V 17.5ah battery was fully charged at the start and it was the first use of this battery (I bought two with the bike) so I wanted to load it lightly for its first few cycles. I did kick it up in to sport mode and assist level 5 (the highest assist level) a couple of times - once when I'd stopped for a comfort break and had to chase to catch the group again - it's seriously fast and accelerates very well!

Fully charged at the start of the ride the battery measured 58.8V. At the end of the ride the Bafang controller display said it had 53% left and a range of 17 miles left. It measured 50.5V. I think it would go quite a bit further more than the 17 miles reported because the last few miles were some hard climbing and I was using assist levels 3 & 4 (still on Eco setting though) and then assist levels 2 & 3 to keep just ahead of my racer pal on his aero road bike (averaging over 22mph+ on the flat). I kept the display set on the remaining range setting and I got a feel for how it was updating based on the load I was putting in versa the settings on the bike. If you ask for more assist the remaining range would drop off after a short period of time and when you're going downhill and hardly using any of the bikes power you'd see the range slowly increase back up again as the algorthim calculates it out. I really like this. Over time I will get more accustomed to this and get a better idea on the range I've got with a fully charged up battery pack. Obviously you could stick in the top assist and Sport mode and ride flat out everywhere but the battery won't last long and I didn't want to be wringing the battery out like that on it's first discharge.

There was one weird moment on the ride - I think it was after the full power blast - when the display said it only had 19% left and the indicator symbol showed the battery as almost fully exhausted out, but is did come back up again. I think this is again due to the algorithm in the unit that must be calculating the range as it probably thinks the current drain associated with riding flat out is going to continue for the foreseeable, so it's warning you that you're not going to go very far!

As I had posted earlier, and in response to another chap on this forum, it really does bring in the power progressively - the harder you go and the more effort you put in, the more the controller/motor will also give. Eco vs Sport mode sort of speeds up the throttle response - much like the different switchable maps you get on a car or motorbike these days. The different level of assist make the controller/motor put in more or less power against what you're putting in, so you can either ride easy or beat yourself up a bit - this is exactly what I wanted in an eBike. I would think that selecting Sport vs Eco would have little long term effect on the overall range if you're riding at a relatively steady speed, as opposed to the assist level - where assist 5 which much more quickly drain the battery compared to assist level 1.

I didn't want to teach you to suck eggs on here, as I know most on this forum are already extremely knowledgeable about eBikes. I do a fair bit of 'normal' cycling but I'm a newbie to the world of eBikes. I am sure some with find my little report useful though. Thank you.

Here's a interactive replay of the ride and I've added in some picture below as well:
https://www.relive.cc/view/2432737746

Now go and get yourself one if you don't already have it!

If you're using 52V batteries you should set your display to read out volts, not percentage, and use this chart to determine battery percentage.
Click to expand...
 

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Sinbord1981 said:
kaybee123 said:
I was wondering if you had a chance to test out the throttle? While the power does come on progressively when pedaling, the throttle seems to be max on or completely off. There is no gradient in the throttle (unlike my other ebike where you can modulate the throttle.
Click to expand...

I didn’t use it that much but it seemed to be variable to me. I’ll try it out again.

Another little tip. When stopped I put it in assist level 0 as a bit of a safety thing. A few people were interested in the bike and came up and had a fiddle and you wouldn’t want them hitting the thumb throttle when you’re not expecting it. Also, I’d often ride off in 0 assist and then engage assist 1 and that really smooths things out especially if you sort of stop start a bit before you officially get underway if you see what I mean.
Click to expand...

Yeah It's not as smooth as I expected. A few things I noticed:
1. The bike doesn't like to reverse. There's a small noise that comes from the motor when you do but I hear it's normal
2. The motor relies on tension to activate so if you start pedaling in an easy gear, it won't 'kick on' until there's resistance. (I suppose I could leave it in a higher gear)
3. My front wheel needs 'true'ing (if that's a verb). There is a mis-alignment so when I go past 10km/h, I hear a noise coming from the disc brake. I tried to adjust it to no avail so I'll have to bring it into a bike shop.
4. The throttle does kinda modulate... but boy does it go from 0% to 10% to 100% fast. If you barely hold the throttle, it won't be at 100% but it's far from gradual.

The bike needs tweaking, that's for sure. However I'm hopeful that once I get all these things sorted out, it should be good.
 
As said before, you can change the setting from percentage to voltage on the display for 52v batteries. This will then also show you in short term what the voltage sag is under load when applying throttle or torque.

Throttle for me is pretty good and variable. I do seem to have something in the motor that I need a minimum RPM going before full power of any assist level is given to the motor. Anybody else feeling this?
 
SunnyDay1 said:
Sinbord1981 said:
So I got out for my first proper ride on my new Frey AM1000 V5 Bafang eBike (52V 17.5ah). I thought I would write up a quick report! This is coming to you from the United Kingdom.

I went out with my local cycle club on a road ride with them (8 of us altogether) purely to get a proper feel for the bike, its functionalities and how it rides. They are all fit blokes and gals on road bikes. I am very pleased with it to say the least! Next will be a proper off-road mountain bike ride - again to ascertain how it behaves and whether the gearing suits me (I've already ordered a two-tooth bigger chainring to gear it up slightly).

The power comes in seamlessly. The bike is very heavy compared to my other non-eBikes but I found that with it on the lowest Eco mode and assist level 1, it was enough power to overcome its own weight on the climbs and allow me to ride comfortably within the group whilst also giving me a moderate work out. I did a 40 mile route with the group, averaging 16mph, max-ing out at ~38mph. There was a moderate amount of climbing and descending today - overall 2,200 feet elevation on the whole 40 mile route. My 52V 17.5ah battery was fully charged at the start and it was the first use of this battery (I bought two with the bike) so I wanted to load it lightly for its first few cycles. I did kick it up in to sport mode and assist level 5 (the highest assist level) a couple of times - once when I'd stopped for a comfort break and had to chase to catch the group again - it's seriously fast and accelerates very well!

Fully charged at the start of the ride the battery measured 58.8V. At the end of the ride the Bafang controller display said it had 53% left and a range of 17 miles left. It measured 50.5V. I think it would go quite a bit further more than the 17 miles reported because the last few miles were some hard climbing and I was using assist levels 3 & 4 (still on Eco setting though) and then assist levels 2 & 3 to keep just ahead of my racer pal on his aero road bike (averaging over 22mph+ on the flat). I kept the display set on the remaining range setting and I got a feel for how it was updating based on the load I was putting in versa the settings on the bike. If you ask for more assist the remaining range would drop off after a short period of time and when you're going downhill and hardly using any of the bikes power you'd see the range slowly increase back up again as the algorthim calculates it out. I really like this. Over time I will get more accustomed to this and get a better idea on the range I've got with a fully charged up battery pack. Obviously you could stick in the top assist and Sport mode and ride flat out everywhere but the battery won't last long and I didn't want to be wringing the battery out like that on it's first discharge.

There was one weird moment on the ride - I think it was after the full power blast - when the display said it only had 19% left and the indicator symbol showed the battery as almost fully exhausted out, but is did come back up again. I think this is again due to the algorithm in the unit that must be calculating the range as it probably thinks the current drain associated with riding flat out is going to continue for the foreseeable, so it's warning you that you're not going to go very far!

As I had posted earlier, and in response to another chap on this forum, it really does bring in the power progressively - the harder you go and the more effort you put in, the more the controller/motor will also give. Eco vs Sport mode sort of speeds up the throttle response - much like the different switchable maps you get on a car or motorbike these days. The different level of assist make the controller/motor put in more or less power against what you're putting in, so you can either ride easy or beat yourself up a bit - this is exactly what I wanted in an eBike. I would think that selecting Sport vs Eco would have little long term effect on the overall range if you're riding at a relatively steady speed, as opposed to the assist level - where assist 5 which much more quickly drain the battery compared to assist level 1.

I didn't want to teach you to suck eggs on here, as I know most on this forum are already extremely knowledgeable about eBikes. I do a fair bit of 'normal' cycling but I'm a newbie to the world of eBikes. I am sure some with find my little report useful though. Thank you.

Here's a interactive replay of the ride and I've added in some picture below as well:
https://www.relive.cc/view/2432737746

Now go and get yourself one if you don't already have it!

If you're using 52V batteries you should set your display to read out volts, not percentage, and use this chart to determine battery percentage.
Click to expand...

The only thing about that graph is that it assumes a linear relationship between capacity and voltage. Albeit relatively accurate, under full load you get a voltage sag of 2-3V meaning you will hit LVC (42v) already under no-load 45V. According to your graph that still should have 17% battery, which basically only can be used if you reduce the assist level.
Click to expand...
 
kaybee123 said:
For what it's worth, I plan on having a comphrensive review of the 2019 Frey AM1000 bike done once the dust settles.
While I found many short clips of the bike, I haven't found a complete package (including video + text) going over it.
...
If anyone has any questions, feel free to leave them and I'll try to cover it in the review (and they'll probably be answered in this thread anyways)
Click to expand...
Thank you in advance for this!
I would be particularly interested in how the controller/motor combination works in terms of feeling a like a bicycle instead of motorbike. I am a layman but I assume what it needs to feel like a bike is instant torque and how the torque sensor works and is programmed.
Instant torque would be important to have when starting on a hill (instead of kicking only after half a revolution or more), also how the electric power is feeling in the pedals, with a Bosch motor you feel it suddenly kicking in, where as a Brose very gradually and super smoothly introduces the power.
The other thing is how fast the torque sensor and controller realise that you are accelerating. Also how does the motor/sensor work, do you get a certain power level independent on how many watts or torque you input (like you putting in varying amounts of watts but the motor always delivering X, where X depends on the power level) or is multiplying your input like I would expect form a good ebike?
Does it adjust it based on certain variables such as the gyro data (indicating if you are going uphill or downhill) like Bosch's new EMTB mode does?
 
Sinbord1981 said:
bugnut said:
Hey All,
I was just wondering what kind of manuals everyone received with there AM2000 bike. I didn't get anything on the controller or the motor. Also the front axel came with the STOP warning stating the axel position was critical and to refer to the manual. I did not receive any manual on this. The front brakes are making an annoying noise and also shudder on hard stops. Any help on this would be appreciated.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I didn’t get any manuals either but I found some online (on this thread I think) for the controller display, the actual motor and for reprogramming. I also read up on battery charging/discharging. One thing I do need to do still, is set up the suspension properly. Am I right in thinking that neither the forks (I’ve got the Lyric) nor the rear shock can be locked out? I need to set them up for my weight via static sag and compression/rebound etc. They seem pretty good anyway (that is, matched to my weight) but I will watch some YouTube videos on how to do it properly. Both have got the elasticated markers round the stanchions that will be helpful in doing this.

Excessive shuddering may mean the steerer headset has a little play, so it might be worth having a look at that. Otherwise it it might just mean the pads haven’t yet bedded in with the brake disc. Good luck.

Also, SunnyDay - thanks for the volts ‘burn-down’ chart seem to be spot on what it was telling me - 53% battery left at 50.5V.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply
Here is a video link that sunnyday1 had shared on dialing in your shocks. https://youtu.be/xhnKTZu2AKs
Could you steer me to a controller link?
Thanks
 
Thanks for the comprehensive reply, Sinbord1981.

Sinbord1981 said:
No. There is no inbuilt gyro as far as I am aware but then I really don't think you need such a thing. When I was riding mine on Saturday if I wanted a bit more assistance going up a hill I'd knock it up an assistance level and going downhill I'd knock it back. .... I will have a play with some of the programmable controller settings in due course just to see what difference it makes. I'll have a read up on Bosch's new EMTB gyro functionality just out of interest though.
Click to expand...
Adjusting the assist level is something I don't want to do often, let alone constantly. From what I've read the Bosch is a motor systems that seems to offer a one-for-all MTBing mode (except maybe having more than one adaptive power mode).
I thought I've read about gyroscopic data being used for those adaptive modes but I wasn't able to verify this via Google so far. Gyro or not (though I bet there is benefit in using gyro data like with phones or cameras), in terms of reading up on Bosch's eMTB mode, this seems like a good summary how it works, those are 5 reasons to use it and this (and posts that follow) seems like a good user review, I believe to have seen better write ups in the past but I am unable to find them at the moment.

Sinbord1981 said:
My recommendation to you is that if you're looking for a powerful eBike you won't do any/much better than the AM1000 so just go a buy one. You won't be disappointed.
I am sure newer even better features will come out in the future for eBikes ... but this is the here and now and the AM1000 pretty much does all you're going to need.
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstood me, I am not of those waiting for fairy dust technology before I buy (meaning never) but given the high price I expect to ride it for many, many years and based on what I know so far I am hesitant to invest 4K € in something that doesn't (?) offer something that is readily available by other manufacturers since at least two years and is AFAIK just a software update. As testriding such bikes is almost impossible you need to rely on what you read on the interwebz.

Sinbord1981 said:
I'll give you another update once I've had a proper go off road on it.
Click to expand...
Great, looking forward to your (what I expect it be from what and how you have written it so far) comprehensive review! I am sure it is a nice ride and no matter if I decide to buy it or not I am sure it will be a useful write up for me as well as many others! :)

I had a quick glance at the manual but I haven't found anything that indicates that the sport mode of the DP C18.UART is adaptive.

On a side note:
Is it possible to set the bike up in such a way that it always falls back to the rad legal 25km/h (or 20mp/h if you live in other parts of the world) after you shut the electronics down. This would be tremendously useful in certain situations... :wink:
 
My 2c on this topic.

I do a good share of riding with both Specialised and Merida e-bikes within e-mtb group rides, and can attest that the AM1000 does have a hard time keeping up with them in tight,twisty & rough single track type riding due to it size and weight.

But out in the open or up any hills it will simply chew them up and spit them out.

On reasonably smooth tracks the 1000 can comfortably keep up with them on level 1 which says it all... switch to level 3 and you'll out accelerate and tear away into the distance, and it still feels like you're not even trying. Good way to get dirty looks though. You could simply leave it on level 2 and ride with them comfortably all day and still have 30-40% battery left afterwards (on a 21ah batt). The inbuilt torque sensor does a pretty damned good job at allowing you to modulate how much power you need.

The motor is certainly not as smooth as the bosch or shimano, but it does it nicely for the amount of power its pumping out, and feels natural once you get accustomed to using the correct gearing for the rpm/speed.

Personally I would go for the new 2019 model over the 1000 if it's all about shredding the trails... but you are then near the price point of low end electric Meridas.
 
Marmalade said:
Personally I would go for the new 2019 model over the 1000 if it's all about shredding the trails... but you are then near the price point of low end electric Meridas.
Click to expand...

Which new 2019 model?

I definitely agree with you on this kind of bike being too heavy to be nimble in the trail... Full suspension G510 and a big battery is a ton of mass, and too much suspension for trail/single track stuff. hardtail with big tires is the way to go, or even rigid with carbon fork and plus/mid fat tires.
 
Marmalade said:
I do a good share of riding with both Specialised and Merida e-bikes within e-mtb group rides, and can attest that the AM1000 does have a hard time keeping up with them in tight,twisty & rough single track type riding due to it size and weight.

But out in the open or up any hills it will simply chew them up and spit them out.
Click to expand...

Not sure about the rough argument, yes its longer and weighs more than others, but that also has advantages when going over fast singletracks. Hairpins do slow me down, but the bike is extremely stable at high speeds on down and up hills and over roots and rocks that would throw many other bikes around like dolls. I haven't found a part on strava where the AM1000 couldn't beat the time set, and then I'm talking about the standard leaderboards as well as the e-bike specific leaderboards. Keeping in mind that in Switzerland the power output is set to 500W and many derestrict their bikes here plus there's plenty of good enduro riders around the hills here.
 
I am currently not having the same experience unfortunately.

My front disc brake rubs (and the front wheel has alignment issues) so I'm bringing it into a bike shop to have tuned before I can properly ride it.

Also, from the limited riding I have done, the throttle seems to come on REALLY strong and the torque sensing seems to only work well when there is a significant amount of torque being applied. Compared to my Voltbike, this is the opposite of smooth.

I'm looking for the Frey software (or any software for that matter) that will allow me to configure the torque settings (and perhaps the throttle) on the bike. Can anyone help?

3d56e831210d1f51e9743a553067d225.jpg


I saw Bafang software from 2016 but I'm not sure if it's safe to use on this.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/11/23/i-void-warranties-hacking-the-bafang-ultra-max-mid-drive-ebike-drive/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/26/a-hackers-guide-to-programming-the-bbs02/
 
kaybee123 said:
I am currently not having the same experience unfortunately.

My front disc brake rubs (and the front wheel has alignment issues) so I'm bringing it into a bike shop to have tuned before I can properly ride it.

Also, from the limited riding I have done, the throttle seems to come on REALLY strong and the torque sensing seems to only work well when there is a significant amount of torque being applied. Compared to my Voltbike, this is the opposite of smooth.

I'm looking for the Frey software (or any software for that matter) that will allow me to configure the torque settings (and perhaps the throttle) on the bike. Can anyone help?

3d56e831210d1f51e9743a553067d225.jpg


I saw Bafang software from 2016 but I'm not sure if it's safe to use on this.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/11/23/i-void-warranties-hacking-the-bafang-ultra-max-mid-drive-ebike-drive/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/26/a-hackers-guide-to-programming-the-bbs02/
Click to expand...

Use this link for the software that Hardcore provided earlier:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18DCTQoQZ7MHID-rxkPJW6t_q_wPZr-1m/view
 
Ahh yes, thanks! That's what I used earlier. I changed the torque like it was shown in the video (to start of 5 instead of 20) and it makes a HUGE difference in smoothness. Tweaking the software has made a tremendous improvement on the bike.
 
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