18650 spot welding -how to- ULTIMATE REPOSITORY

because you are still dependant on the nickel strip and its welds. and wels are almost impossible to solder over.

if you need such massive current capacity you need to rethink your setup. there is no cell that can survive that current load.
if you need .3 nickel or better you need to change the setup, its as simple as that.

fun fact: .3 is what they use in dewalt battery packs. if you draw those kinds of currents on a diy bike battery with crappy cells you really need to rethink what your are doing.
 
spinningmagnets said:
Makita and several others use nickel-plated copper, and they are spot-welded
Click to expand...

the lastest dewalts also have it. but its less wide and a bit thinner then the older packs. i have never seen non-spotwelded batteries from any brand.
its probably because of the newer devices they sell like the chainsaws and stuff, they really hammer the batteries and i have repaired a couple older dewalts packs that were used in a few chainsaws and i could see the tabs were melting the insulation/wrap of the cells. so dewalt knew that even .3 nickel was insufficient.
but then again: dewalt lives on selling batteries, not equipement. they sell 250 euro batteries with less then 25 euro worth of cells in them. they dont care how long they last, as long as they survive the warranty period.
 
BenjAZ said:
.

What's the max current that 0.1mm piece can handle?

Thanks
Click to expand...

if your layout is good - as much as your battery can output.
 
...and the number of layers.
I've had good success drawing over 125A from 4 layers of nickel x 7 series strips of 0.15 x 7mm nickel. So 28 links total, although the top most layers won't contribute as much so it's not a simple multiplication of current capability, but theoretically 28 layers could take 196A.

Cheers
 
spinningmagnets said:
Makita and several others use nickel-plated copper, and they are spot-welded
Click to expand...

Saw this in this thread. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68005&start=700#p1395373

Would be nice to have some kind of technology out there which is better than using 100% nickel strip, that can also be easily welded.
 
Offroader said:
Would be nice to have some kind of technology out there which is better than using 100% nickel strip, that can also be easily welded.
Click to expand...

that already exists, its ultrasonic welding. really shitty budget units are about 5k from aliexpress. proper units are on the spectrum of "if you have to ask you cant afford it".
 
flippy said:
that already exists, its ultrasonic welding. really shitty budget units are about 5k from aliexpress. proper units are on the spectrum of "if you have to ask you cant afford it".
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
Question about spot welding batteries:

I inherited a Hughes resistance welder years ago that's been collecting dust in my garage. Turns out I've now got an electric vehicle project in the works and I'm wondering if this thing is well suited to spot welding the battery tabs. Finding information on this has been tricky.

It's an HRW-50B, which is a 50 watt second unit. It seems like most of the spot welders for batteries are more in the 100-200 watt second range. If I put the work into rigging up electrodes and figuring out a trigger mechanism for this, is there going to be enough current from this welder to make a good weld on a battery tab?

And a bonus question:
There's a two-pin round connector for the trigger on the front of the welder. It's a 40+ year old amphenol connector. Anyone know what I'd need to buy to find a mating connector??? :)

-Ben
 
benha said:
It's an HRW-50B, which is a 50 watt second unit. It seems like most of the spot welders for batteries are more in the 100-200 watt second range. If I put the work into rigging up electrodes and figuring out a trigger mechanism for this, is there going to be enough current from this welder to make a good weld on a battery tab?

And a bonus question:
There's a two-pin round connector for the trigger on the front of the welder. It's a 40+ year old amphenol connector. Anyone know what I'd need to buy to find a mating connector??? :)

-Ben
Click to expand...

That's really hard to tell. I would get some nickel strips and try welding them to scraps of steel sheet metal. I've seen guys typically use the side of a utility knife blade as a 18650 simulator. If you can get good welds on a test piece then try some actual cells.

Many of those Amphenol connectors are still available. Places like Digi-key or Mouser might stock them. I would probably remove the connector and replace it with something I have on hand.
 
Would such a 12v battery be enough for spot welding with kweld or maltronics?

https://www.biltema.se/en-se/car---mc/mc/mc-spare-parts/mc-batteries/mc-battery-smf-2000029838
 
eikido said:
Would such a 12v battery be enough for spot welding with kweld or maltronics?

https://www.biltema.se/en-se/car---mc/mc/mc-spare-parts/mc-batteries/mc-battery-smf-2000029838
Click to expand...

It looks like very tiny cm battery so maybe it can weld very thin nickel but it will be very hard for the battery. It is also very expensive compared to car batteries or even lipos. If you have it and don't need it for anything else you can try but if I'd have that expensive battery in my motorcycle I would not risk damaging it with welders.. :roll:

Edit : Just noticed that the price was in sek so in eur it is 20. So not expensive at all. Still don't have high hopes for it but with 0.15 or thinner nickel or plated steel just maybe..
 
ossivirt said:
eikido said:
Would such a 12v battery be enough for spot welding with kweld or maltronics?

https://www.biltema.se/en-se/car---mc/mc/mc-spare-parts/mc-batteries/mc-battery-smf-2000029838
Click to expand...

It looks like very tiny cm battery so maybe it can weld very thin nickel but it will be very hard for the battery. It is also very expensive compared to car batteries or even lipos. If you have it and don't need it for anything else you can try but if I'd have that expensive battery in my motorcycle I would not risk damaging it with welders.. :roll:

Edit : Just noticed that the price was in sek so in eur it is 20. So not expensive at all. Still don't have high hopes for it but with 0.15 or thinner nickel or plated steel just maybe..
Click to expand...

Thanks.
I can't figure out what to look for in a car battery when buying it for a spot welder such as malectrics.
 
eikido said:
ossivirt said:
eikido said:
Would such a 12v battery be enough for spot welding with kweld or maltronics?

https://www.biltema.se/en-se/car---mc/mc/mc-spare-parts/mc-batteries/mc-battery-smf-2000029838
Click to expand...

It looks like very tiny cm battery so maybe it can weld very thin nickel but it will be very hard for the battery. It is also very expensive compared to car batteries or even lipos. If you have it and don't need it for anything else you can try but if I'd have that expensive battery in my motorcycle I would not risk damaging it with welders.. :roll:

Edit : Just noticed that the price was in sek so in eur it is 20. So not expensive at all. Still don't have high hopes for it but with 0.15 or thinner nickel or plated steel just maybe..
Click to expand...

Thanks.
I can't figure out what to look for in a car battery when buying it for a spot welder such as malectrics.
Click to expand...
Any new car battery should be fine. I have stupidly large and heavy 110ah used battery and it gives me 1500a with kweld. It is just enough to weld 0.1mm copper and should also do 0.3mm nickel. I guess even batteries around 45-55ah should handle nickel welding up to at least 0.2mm nicely. Car batteries have capacity marked in ah and usually there is maximum starting current also marked which is more or less accurate. More current is better in spot welding until its too much for the welder..
 
Anyone here ever use this: https://www.amadamiyachi.eu/products/micro-tig-welding ?????

Is this something I could do with my AC/DC tig welder. Setting the startupcurrent high but short and the welding current to 0.
I can modify a torch to have the conductive base as on this image.

I can try it but to know actual heat to battery I need a IR camera? Or would simpy measuring with IR thermometer gun after welding be sufficient?
 
Pulse arc welding should be similar to resistance spot welding for the same size spot. But those welders are not cheap.
 
Well I have reluctantly bought a spot welder for building 18650 battery packs. I really loathe these cells are they are not easy to work with - unless you're ultrasonically wirebonding the terminals to a busbar, you are limited to low power applications. But it is typically the cheapest way to buy battery storage - typically about AUD$270 to $350 per kWh, and LiPo pouches are more like $700 per kWh, let alone what they cost as a built pack.

So I have ordered a Sunkko 709 AD and a single hand electrode holder. I plan on using the Kart_PS kit for building hexagonal close-packed batteries. Their nickel strip seems to look the goods, and in the case of the pack I'm building, it will be *just* enough to handle the currents.

Goal is to incorporate a cooling system so that the battery packs can live a reasonably long life. If your half-price battery dies after less than 2 years, was it really half price?

I will probably start a new thread, but will post specific experiences here.
 
jonescg said:
So I have ordered a Sunkko 709 AD
Click to expand...
please cancel that order as fast as humanly possible.
that thing is nothing but grief.
 
I've heard this, but also seen plenty of reviews saying it worked fine. It sounds like you either get a good one or a lemon. I can always return it if it doesn't do the job.
 
jonescg said:
I've heard this, but also seen plenty of reviews saying it worked fine. It sounds like you either get a good one or a lemon. I can always return it if it doesn't do the job.
Click to expand...

welding heavy duty strips and long runs will kill the transformer.
people that had no problems are the people doing tiny batteries, not big ones.
 
jonescg said:
I've heard this, but also seen plenty of reviews saying it worked fine. It sounds like you either get a good one or a lemon. I can always return it if it doesn't do the job.
Click to expand...

Why not go for something better? We have two great options here and both are already much better than sunko at what they are supposed to do. I can weld 0,3 strips without any issues and my JP welder has gone through tens of thousands cells without any issues.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=68865
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=89039&hilit=kweld
https://www.keenlab.de/index.php/product-category/kspot-welder-kit/
 
I guess I didn't know where to start. Reviews seemed to suggest the 709 was better than the 788. But also, I have zero interest in building my own welder. I want an off the shelf product which works as described. If it fails I'll either repair and upgrade, or send it back and try something else.
 
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