Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 04 2019 12:10am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 03 2019 10:48pm
You should take some time to re read your posts ..when you are sober/ return to planet earth/back on your meds.
I'm studying for an exam on the Mechanics of Materials on Saturday. Torsion, deflection, angle of twist. I've got vector calculus next week along with differential equations. And I've got electronics in between. Thevenin and Norton equivalent circuits, delta wye, star delta. All really dry stuff. Being surrounded by intelligent people all day can make you forget just how dumb people really are. You keep me in touch with the masses. If I was drunk it would just be that much more impressive. But ain't nobody got time for that. :mrgreen:

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jul 04 2019 3:14am

furcifer wrote:
Jul 04 2019 12:10am
Hillhater wrote:
Jul 03 2019 10:48pm
You should take some time to re read your posts ..when you are sober/ return to planet earth/back on your meds.
I'm studying for an exam on the Mechanics of Materials on Saturday. Torsion, deflection, angle of twist. I've got vector calculus next week along with differential equations. And I've got electronics in between. Thevenin and Norton equivalent circuits, delta wye, star delta. All really dry stuff. Being surrounded by intelligent people all day can make you forget just how dumb people really are. You keep me in touch with the masses. If I was drunk it would just be that much more impressive. But ain't nobody got time for that. :mrgreen:
Being smashed or stoned would have ben a reasonable excuse for your irrational comments, ...
..but stating you are sober and not stoned actually makes your situation worse....no simple fix for ingrown stupid !
At least now i understand where you picked up most of your AGW indoctrination..
Modern education system is riddled with wacko, leftist , Green, AGW, Socialist, tutoring and peer groups.
I recommend you try to do some independent research beyond the recommended sources. :wink:
But then again, why bother with all those exams ?....your cult beliefs dictate that we are all going to melt and shrivel to dust within 10-12 years dont they ? :wink:
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furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 04 2019 4:10am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 04 2019 3:14am
But then again, why bother with all those exams ?....your cult beliefs dictate that we are all going to melt and shrivel to dust within 10-12 years dont they ? :wink:
About the only thing I can think of that comes close to indoctrination is the push towards professionalism.

"Engineering has a direct and vital impact on the quality of life for all people.
Accordingly, the services provided by engineers require honesty, impartiality, fairness,
and equity, and must be dedicated to the protection of the public health, safety, and
welfare. Engineers must perform under a standard of professional behavior that
requires adherence to the highest principles of ethical conduct. "

I have a moral and ethical obligation to stop stupidity.

Anthropogenic, by definition, is caused by humans. AGW is the global increase in temperature caused by humans. By definition it does not include variations in climate caused naturally. It's not a mystery, it is scientific theory back by millions of hours of scientific research, across multiple disciplines over several decades, by thousands of professionals.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jul 04 2019 6:53am

It is a theory instigated by politicians .
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furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 04 2019 7:11am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 04 2019 6:53am
It is a theory instigated by politicians .
Even if it were true, which it isn't, it's still experimentally tested and verified. Trees, the ocean, glaciers, they're non partisan even if you want to believe every scientist on the planet is a Libertarian.

Every paper you vapidly shoot down has been presented for peer review, and yet nobody on the planet with more experience and education has been able to do the same. Do you enjoy a sense of false martyrdom? It's a desperate act of the feeble minded; you're so far out of the game you've bet everything on a long shot.

This has nothing to do with science, it's only psychology. :wink:

Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Punx0r » Jul 04 2019 8:01am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 04 2019 6:53am
It is a theory instigated by politicians .
Yes, for ~100 years politicans have been trying to shut down oil companies on the pretence of AGW.

You're an idiot.

furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 04 2019 9:59am

Punx0r wrote:
Jul 04 2019 8:01am
Hillhater wrote:
Jul 04 2019 6:53am
It is a theory instigated by politicians .
Yes, for ~100 years politicans have been trying to shut down oil companies on the pretence of AGW.

You're an idiot.
I think you'll find most of the deniers are basically conspiracy nuts. Luminati, Rothschild, second gunman, etc the number of Deniers that subscribe to other conspiracies is usually high (95% confidence level)
It has nothing to do with science and understanding, and everything to do with failure and blaming the world for their problems because everyone is working against them. It's not their fault they can't get out of the basement, it's the man. There's no point working hard because that's what THEY want you to do.
I have a few friends like this. They tend to be intelligent, but not the best critical thinkers. They're over confidence because they just don't know any better. They hang around the like minded so they never feel inadequate or humble.
It's hard to get through to them because they're usually entrenched in some dogma, and they think science is arrived at by consensus as well.
Textbook conspiracy stuff in this thread.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jul 05 2019 8:20am

Punx0r wrote:
Jul 04 2019 8:01am
Hillhater wrote:
Jul 04 2019 6:53am
It is a theory instigated by politicians .
Yes, for ~100 years politicans have been trying to shut down oil companies on the pretence of AGW.

1974 – “As for the present cooling trend a number of leading climatologists have concluded that it is very bad news indeed” – Fortune magazine, who won a Science Writing Award from the American Institute of Physics for its analysis of the danger
1974 – “…the facts of the present climate change are such that the most optimistic experts would assign near certainty to major crop failure…mass deaths by starvation, and probably anarchy and violence” – New York Times
1975 – Scientists Ponder Why World’s Climate is Changing; A Major Cooling Widely Considered to Be Inevitable – New York Times, May 21st, 1975
"...................
1989 – “we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, means getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have.”– Stephen Schneider, lead author of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Discover magazine,

1990 – “We’ve got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing – in terms of economic policy and environmental policy” – Senator Timothy Wirth

1998 – No matter if the science [of global warming] is all phony . . . climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” —Christine Stewart, Canadian Minister of the Environment, Calgary Herald, 1998.

.....2015 “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the industrial revolution. That will not happen overnight and it will not happen at a single conference on climate change, be it COP 15, 21, 40 – you choose the number. It just does not occur like that. It is a process, because of the depth of the transformation.”
Christina Figueres, UNFCC Executive Secretary.......
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Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Punx0r » Jul 05 2019 9:03am

Genuinely not sure what your point is supposed to be?

furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 05 2019 11:59am

Punx0r wrote:
Jul 05 2019 9:03am
Genuinely not sure what your point is supposed to be?
I think he's saying even though we've known for 40 years what could happen is bad, we've done nothing. Mostly because people don't understand climate science doesn't deal with absolute certainties, only what is highly probable. Because the stakes are high people assume Global Warming should be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt", like in criminal law, but it's actually like civil law where we rely on the preponderance of evidence.

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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by TheBeastie » Jul 05 2019 12:05pm

Safer Nuclear Reactors Are on the Way
Resilient fuels and innovative reactors could enable a resurgence of nuclear power

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-the-way/
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 05 2019 12:33pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Jul 05 2019 12:05pm
Safer Nuclear Reactors Are on the Way
Resilient fuels and innovative reactors could enable a resurgence of nuclear power

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-the-way/
I think they're talking about those small (<10MW) Westinghouse reactors. I don't know what the problem is but they've been promising those for years. My guess is they're afraid to put money into something and then have the NIMBY's ruin the investment with BS opposition.

Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Punx0r » Jul 05 2019 1:12pm

furcifer wrote:
Jul 05 2019 11:59am

I think he's saying even though we've known for 40 years what could happen is bad, we've done nothing.
I think you're right. At any rate it looks like a copy and paste job from some pre-assembled list.

furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 05 2019 4:24pm

Punx0r wrote:
Jul 05 2019 1:12pm
At any rate it looks like a copy and paste job from some pre-assembled list.
Yep. An "American Thinker" article. Let's disseminate that article:

"Throughout the entire 120 year period fossil fuel use was growing exponentially, population growth was exploding, and CO2 concentration was increasing. The fact that temperatures both rose and fell during this period shows that there is no correlation between temperature, fossil fuels, CO2 and the human population."

This isn't a "fact", it's speculation followed by a strawman. It doesn't matter how bad AGW gets, the temperature will continue to rise and fall until the end of time. AGW deals with average global temperature, which has risen steadily over those 120 years, consistent with AGW and the humans using fossil fuels.

"Storm activity, floods, droughts, and sea levels have also fluctuated throughout billions of years."

Again, AGW has to do with the rate at which things are changing, and not the change. Things have fluctuated for billions of years, but the evidence suggests they have never fluctuated at this rate. The reason they are changing at a phenomenal rate is consistent with AGW theory and not natural variation. Unless there is some relativistic effect causing the Earth to move faster through time, the current change must be induced and not "natural".

"The fact is, fossil fuels have greatly improved the length and quality of life for everyone the last 150 years. "

More speculation, but surprise, this is an actual fact supported by evidence although none is given.

"When scientists, bureaucrats and politicians predict the number of deaths from fossil fuels years out, why don't they point out the number of lives saved each year because we have fossil fuels?"

So there's an AGW Deadpool? I haven't seen a single scientist claim that x number of people are going to die in y years??? I wouldn't put it past bureaucrats or politicians, but still I haven't seen this.

"I think that people are absolutely nuts if they believe politicians and bureaucrats can control temperatures, sea levels and storm activity forever if we just hand over our freedom and trillions of dollars."

Strawman. Curbing fossil fuel use has nothing to do with controlling the weather. The basis for AGW can best be surmised by Benjamin Franklin "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”. The planet has a cancer, called "humanity". :mrgreen:

furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 05 2019 4:28pm

Sad, we live in a world where peer reviewed scientific studies are routinely evaluated against op-ed pieces on the internet.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Jul 05 2019 4:48pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Jul 05 2019 12:05pm
Safer Nuclear Reactors Are on the Way
I'm all for safer nuclear reactors. But they are very expensive.

I hope we keep working on safer reactors, and if we ever hit a point where we have a lot of excess money, we could look at building them as a primary source of power. But money talks, and thus solar+storage is going to dominate in the near term.
--bill von

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jul 06 2019 1:37am

billvon wrote:
Jul 05 2019 4:48pm
TheBeastie wrote:
Jul 05 2019 12:05pm
Safer Nuclear Reactors Are on the Way
I'm all for safer nuclear reactors. But they are very expensive.
Not as expensive as a generation system that only works some of the time , and cannot be relied upon when you really need it .
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sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Jul 06 2019 8:03am

Thorcon has completely updated their website to show how they can build fully functioning and tested 500 MWe molten salt nuclear electrical plants in normal shipyards and then tow them into place, anywhere there are navigable waterways. Complete shipyard construction will drastically bring down the cost. Modular cores are switch out every 4 years to refurbish the moderator at a factory. Fuel is switched out and reprocessed every 8 years at a factory. Fuel can be 4% Uranium, mox, 20% Uranium with Thorium, ect. Completely walk away safe indefinitely with no human intervention. The core operates at just 3 bar pressure. Uses standard 650C turbines. Standard 700C molten salt load following as is well known from thermal solar plants can be added to vary the output from 0%-200%-0%.
.
http://thorconpower.com/design/

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Jul 06 2019 8:24am

To put the energy density of nuclear into perspective: .3 cubic meters/ 11 cubic feet of fissile material powers the 500 MWe reactor for a year. This is a 2.5 foot square box.

furcifer   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by furcifer » Jul 06 2019 12:33pm

sendler2112 wrote:
Jul 06 2019 8:24am
To put the energy density of nuclear into perspective: .3 cubic meters/ 11 cubic feet of fissile material powers the 500 MWe reactor for a year. This is a 2.5 foot square box.
Image


I've seen unspent Candu rods on keychains.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Jul 06 2019 1:17pm

sendler2112 wrote:
Jul 06 2019 8:03am
Thorcon has completely updated their website to show how they can build fully functioning and tested 500 MWe molten salt nuclear electrical plants in normal shipyards and then tow them into place, anywhere there are navigable waterways.
Don't think I'd want to be anywhere near that waterway if, during transport, any of those sodium/flourine salts touched said waterway.
--bill von

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Jul 06 2019 1:49pm

billvon wrote:
Jul 06 2019 1:17pm
sendler2112 wrote:
Jul 06 2019 8:03am
Thorcon has completely updated their website to show how they can build fully functioning and tested 500 MWe molten salt nuclear electrical plants in normal shipyards and then tow them into place, anywhere there are navigable waterways.
Don't think I'd want to be anywhere near that waterway if, during transport, any of those sodium/flourine salts touched said waterway.
??? Salts are very stable.
.
"No chemical reactivity with air or water — The fuel salt is generally not violently reactive with the environment. So where LWRs have hydrogen explosions and SFRs have sodium fires, MSRs do well."
.
https://whatisnuclear.com/msr.html
.

Ianhill   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Ianhill » Jul 06 2019 4:30pm

Shove a steam turbine on my wang and I'll doom the energy Into the grid feed me greens and I'll be renewable.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jul 07 2019 7:24pm

Ianhill wrote:
Jul 06 2019 4:30pm
Shove a steam turbine on my wang and I'll doom the energy Into the grid feed me greens and I'll be renewable.
Hmm ? Sounds like just another way for a (small) renewable source to phuk up the grid ! :roll: :roll:
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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Ianhill » Jul 08 2019 6:58am

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 07 2019 7:24pm
Ianhill wrote:
Jul 06 2019 4:30pm
Shove a steam turbine on my wang and I'll doom the energy Into the grid feed me greens and I'll be renewable.
Hmm ? Sounds like just another way for a (small) renewable source to phuk up the grid ! :roll: :roll:
Haha this suckers electrical when he gets going I generate 1.21 gigawatts, I send girl a back in time to they youth lmao.

If we don't make light of it becomes a serious smash of words back and for fingers crossed for the future for the youth of tomorrow, the next hundred years is crucial we get a bet grip on u understanding the processes we exist around.

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