My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Deafcat said:

Stanleybb50 said:

Just found some more potential options here: https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-Colored-Display-Electric-Odometer/dp/B07B8YPL4Q/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=bafang+display&qid=1561668517&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-4

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The DPC18 you linked, is the stock display for the Bafang Ultra. Also, it's probably the only display I know for sure works with it. I seem to recall that other Bafang displays DO NOT work with the Ultra motor, which is the motor on the AM1000.

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https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-Display-Available-Electric-TFT-500C/dp/B07MV44YGK/ref=asc_df_B07MV44YGK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=334237318532&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1702079712313517456&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005966&hvtargid=pla-679191914086&psc=1

This link then. The 500c or nothin' in my humble opinion after looking at all the options. :thumb:

mwesleyroper said:

Luna released their full suspension X-1 with a 2000 watt Bafang M600 a few days ago. Very affordable.

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I did see that when it was still available for pre-order (they closed it down already and said they won't open again until next batch which if i were to guess will be late summer).

I couldn't pull the trigger on it mainly due to the unknown carbon quality. It did seem like a darn nice bike though, but wasn't for me ultimately. I'm glad they closed down the pre-order window before i had some drinks and hit the buy button or something! haha

They Frey M600 is also very affordable. I just know i can't pull the trigger on it without hearing more reviews/experiences/etc.

*I'm impatient... haha

https://electricbike-blog.com/2018/11/30/500c-bafang-display-the-mini-me-of-ebike-displays/

Karl seems to say it works in the above link, by his reference to the "Ultra Max"? (Is that correct? I get so dang confused on all the terms for the different motors...)

Here's what Karl added about the 500c in his blog post comment section: "Yes it does, the article has been updated. Near as I can tell the Ultra Max works fine with the C961, C965, C963 & 500C. The display article has been updated. Thanks for asking."

MAX was the predecessor to the Ultra, and Bafangs first motor with torque-sensing (my buddy has one, nice motor). MAX Ultra is what we now just call the Ultra (the G510 motor), so it sounds like more displays work.

Deafcat said:

MAX was the predecessor to the Ultra, and Bafangs first motor with torque-sensing (my buddy has one, nice motor). MAX Ultra is what we now just call the Ultra (the G510 motor), so it sounds like more displays work.

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Sweet. I love it with my BBSHD, so this is great to hear. I'll report back when I receive the bike in 40 days.

I would be VERY careful buying any bike from Luna. I made that mistake ONCE and will NEVER repeat it. A very shady operation and they flat out lie ALOT.

The FLX blade is a good bike. I have one. Had a Bad Ultra unit after 400 miles. They shipped me a new Ultra unit and offered to pay a local shop to do the replacement. I did the replacement myself instead. It was pretty simple.

The Frey AM 1000 is a good bike, I have one for my wife. The Frey HT 1000 is a good bike, I have one and removed the inner controller and battery and replaced it with Grin's phase runner and 60 volt triangle battery for 3000 watts. Runs great and the Grin PR unit with CA3 are SO much better than the internal Bafang controller / programmer, This one Really flies and I have over 1,000 miles on it with the stock running items from Frey. Still waiting for the Rohloff hub with DT swiss rim for it, but the stock stuff surprised me with it longevity at 3,000 watts. Next step is a 72 volt triangle battery upgrade at 50 amps. See if I can burn up that Ultra!

Have one Frey FS Ultra fat tire on order right now.

Obviously I have had good experiences with both FLX & Frey and good service.....

No experience with M600 drive...

Just my 3 cents.

garyal1 said:

I would be VERY careful buying any bike from Luna. I made that mistake ONCE and will NEVER repeat it. A very shady operation and they flat out lie ALOT.

The FLX blade is a good bike. I have one. Had a Bad Ultra unit after 400 miles. They shipped me a new Ultra unit and offered to pay a local shop to do the replacement. I did the replacement myself instead. It was pretty simple.

The Frey AM 1000 is a good bike, I have one for my wife. The Frey HT 1000 is a good bike, I have one and removed the inner controller and battery and replaced it with Grin's phase runner and 60 volt triangle battery for 3000 watts. Runs great and the Grin PR unit with CA3 are SO much better than the internal Bafang controller / programmer, This one Really flies and I have over 1,000 miles on it with the stock running items from Frey. Still waiting for the Rohloff hub with DT swiss rim for it, but the stock stuff surprised me with it longevity at 3,000 watts. Next step is a 72 volt triangle battery upgrade at 50 amps. See if I can burn up that Ultra!

Have one Frey FS Ultra fat tire on order right now.

Obviously I have had good experiences with both FLX & Frey and good service.....

No experience with M600 drive...

Just my 3 cents.

Click to expand...

Awesome post! I'm craving any new info now that I finished reading this long thread. Comfy in my AM1000 decision.

Such a looooong wait I have in front of me though sadly..

The throttle control switch for my Bafang has been so sensitive that it was almost impossible to engage without the bike lurching forward. I believe I fixed it with the programming utility. Under the "Throttle Handle" tab I changed "Mode" from "Speed" to "Current". That eliminated the abrupt throttle. I also changed "Start Current" from "10" to "2" to see if it would increase the throttle's physical range though if that accomplished anything it wasn't much.

Deafcat said:

mwesleyroper said:

Luna released their full suspension X-1 with a 2000 watt Bafang M600 a few days ago. Very affordable.

Click to expand...

That bike is beyond ridiculous. Firstly, no evidence the M600 can handle 2kW for any length of time. Secondly, even if the motor survives, they frocking equipped the bike with an NX Eagle 12-speed drivetrain, which is an aluminum XD interface cassette not even remotely capable of handling those power levels... Then for this wonderfully light bike they added four-piston (!!) brakes, because that's totally necessary... What will break first? The frame? The rear hub/cassette? the motor? the chain? What a crap-shoot. $3500 USD entry price to ride an electro-mechanical time-bomb.

Click to expand...

You had me thinking Luna may have indeed lost their marbles when you mentioned the aluminum cassette. However, after going to the source and reading about their cassette I think Luna made one of the best choices in cassettes. The cogs are made of steel while the carrier is aluminum. SRAM claims, "The PG-1230 is the only Eagle cassette that meets durability requirements for E-MTB applications". Sounds legit to me.

garyal1 said:

I would be VERY careful buying any bike from Luna. I made that mistake ONCE and will NEVER repeat it. A very shady operation and they flat out lie ALOT.

The FLX blade is a good bike. I have one. Had a Bad Ultra unit after 400 miles. They shipped me a new Ultra unit and offered to pay a local shop to do the replacement. I did the replacement myself instead. It was pretty simple.

The Frey AM 1000 is a good bike, I have one for my wife. The Frey HT 1000 is a good bike, I have one and removed the inner controller and battery and replaced it with Grin's phase runner and 60 volt triangle battery for 3000 watts. Runs great and the Grin PR unit with CA3 are SO much better than the internal Bafang controller / programmer, This one Really flies and I have over 1,000 miles on it with the stock running items from Frey. Still waiting for the Rohloff hub with DT swiss rim for it, but the stock stuff surprised me with it longevity at 3,000 watts. Next step is a 72 volt triangle battery upgrade at 50 amps. See if I can burn up that Ultra!

Have one Frey FS Ultra fat tire on order right now.

Obviously I have had good experiences with both FLX & Frey and good service.....

No experience with M600 drive...

Just my 3 cents.

Click to expand...

I did this on my first attempt at speed on the flat and she was still giving as I let out of it. I believe it has amazing potential. Post results when done please!

mwesleyroper said:

You had me thinking Luna may have indeed lost their marbles when you mentioned the aluminum cassette. However, after going to the source and reading about their cassette I think Luna made one of the best choices in cassettes. The cogs are made of steel while the carrier is aluminum. SRAM claims, "The PG-1230 is the only Eagle cassette that meets durability requirements for E-MTB applications". Sounds legit to me.

Click to expand...

That does not sound legit to me at all, since SRAM is based in Germany and would only make a statement like that in relation to domestic E-MTB bikes... "350W peak"

Karl did an article about this issue, riding Luna ludicrous, and explains the issue pretty clearly: https://electricbike-blog.com/2019/02/14/the-rear-fathub-that-just-refuses-to-die-dt-swiss-big-ride-350-197mm/

I don't agree with all of his points or conclusions but he's absolutely right to be concerned about aluminum HG-spline freehub bodies, I would never expect this interface to deal with 2000W power levels. However, since the PG-1230 is HG spline, it should actually be okay on a hub with steel driver body (Onyx, DT Swiss, Hope I think has steel option too, etc). I don't know which rear hub they used, but based on the other oversights I'll point out shortly, I would not be surprised if it was aluminum driven cassette.

I was somewhat mistaken in my previous post, in stating the NX Eagle was XD-driver... It is absolutely HG Spline, I'd even looked that up a few months back. The remaining issues are more troubling: the 12-speed chain, and good narrow-wide 12 speed chainrings. Luna dove head-first into a very dangerous mix of unknowns... We don't know if any of the 12-speed chains can survive these power levels, and the 12-speed chain is so new that few good chainring options exist. Jumped the gun, and for what? There is already mounting evidence that 1x11 drivetrains have unnecessary gear range on an ebike, and weaker chains than 8/9 speed. Diving into 1x12 with so many unknowns... Unreasonable.

Then again, I'm almost tempted to applaud them for pushing the limits and getting a crazy M600 bike out there... I just feel bad for the guys who bought this and will push it to full ludicrous power... I don't think they will spend much time riding.

mwesleyroper said:

I did this 20190704_042326 - Copy (3).jpg on my first attempt at speed on the flat and she was still giving as I let out of it. I believe it has amazing potential. Post results when done please!

Click to expand...

82.8 km/h? This is an impossible speed at these power levels, except if you were standing in one place and riding the bike with the rear wheel off the ground.

Or, if you had a massive tail wind.

Nice try though!

Deafcat said:

mwesleyroper said:

I did this 20190704_042326 - Copy (3).jpg on my first attempt at speed on the flat and she was still giving as I let out of it. I believe it has amazing potential. Post results when done please!

Click to expand...

82.8 km/h? This is an impossible speed at these power levels, except if you were standing in one place and riding the bike with the rear wheel off the ground.

Or, if you had a massive tail wind.

Nice try though!

Click to expand...

Always know your audience!

Map Paddy said:

Does anyone know a suitable replacement for the crank arms I got pedal strike now I got a bad case of wobbly crank going on .I k ot its ISIS spline but if anyone has fitted one that works well or a link to somthing that works please local shop no help at all

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I recall someone on reddit saying they were very satisfied by changing the Bafang arms on their Biktrix to Miranda 152mm length, 8mm offset crank arms.

Adova said:

Hey all - and thanks for the detailed info on your experiences with Frey here!

Just pulled the trigger on an AM1000 with the lower end component configuration (e.g. Alibabba shows range from $2000 - ~$3000 for the AM1000). I am a novice biker, a bit older, and really just wanted the 1000w motor in a full suspension bike that would not break the bank. I think this will fit the bill.

I am a software engineer and plan on trying to see if I can port the software over to Android so that it could be modified on the road. Just need to make some sort of Bluetooth adapter for the cable.

I'll try to update as I go along...

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Did anything ever become of this? Pretty awesome idea. Could maybe try to use it work with the Eggrider folks..?

I have both a Frey HT and an Eggrider on order :wink:

Deafcat said:

mwesleyroper said:

You had me thinking Luna may have indeed lost their marbles when you mentioned the aluminum cassette. However, after going to the source and reading about their cassette I think Luna made one of the best choices in cassettes. The cogs are made of steel while the carrier is aluminum. SRAM claims, "The PG-1230 is the only Eagle cassette that meets durability requirements for E-MTB applications". Sounds legit to me.

Click to expand...

That does not sound legit to me at all, since SRAM is based in Germany and would only make a statement like that in relation to domestic E-MTB bikes... "350W peak"

Karl did an article about this issue, riding Luna ludicrous, and explains the issue pretty clearly: https://electricbike-blog.com/2019/02/14/the-rear-fathub-that-just-refuses-to-die-dt-swiss-big-ride-350-197mm/

I don't agree with all of his points or conclusions but he's absolutely right to be concerned about aluminum HG-spline freehub bodies, I would never expect this interface to deal with 2000W power levels. However, since the PG-1230 is HG spline, it should actually be okay on a hub with steel driver body (Onyx, DT Swiss, Hope I think has steel option too, etc). I don't know which rear hub they used, but based on the other oversights I'll point out shortly, I would not be surprised if it was aluminum driven cassette.

I was somewhat mistaken in my previous post, in stating the NX Eagle was XD-driver... It is absolutely HG Spline, I'd even looked that up a few months back. The remaining issues are more troubling: the 12-speed chain, and good narrow-wide 12 speed chainrings. Luna dove head-first into a very dangerous mix of unknowns... We don't know if any of the 12-speed chains can survive these power levels, and the 12-speed chain is so new that few good chainring options exist. Jumped the gun, and for what? There is already mounting evidence that 1x11 drivetrains have unnecessary gear range on an ebike, and weaker chains than 8/9 speed. Diving into 1x12 with so many unknowns... Unreasonable.

Then again, I'm almost tempted to applaud them for pushing the limits and getting a crazy M600 bike out there... I just feel bad for the guys who bought this and will push it to full ludicrous power... I don't think they will spend much time riding.

Click to expand...

I also made these considerations. i first used a DT Swiss Hybrid H1900 - comes with 2 steel bodies (XD and HG - but only 3 pawl system). then i rebuild the H1900 hub to a ratchet hub ( 3pawl to 24 teeth ratchet with XD hybrid freehub body -yes it works only problem is the seal of the freehub body but i simply reused the H1900 seal - so now my H1900 is a H1700 hub ). the 240/350 and H1700 DT Swiss uses all the same ratchet system - only diffenrence : all hybrid hub bodies are made of steel. so you can also buy the steel hybrid body and mount it on a 350 hub (XD and HG are available - microspline is still only aluminium or lets say "non hybrid"). but i also build a new rear tire based on the Onyx Hub with a DT SWISS HX581 rim (27.5 35mm 32hole) - absolutely silent 8) . Onyx freehub body is also made of steel (but there are also aluminium ones available as spare parts).

Best cassettes are already mentioned : SRAM PG-1130 for HG and SRAM XG-1150 for XD (for 11speed)
i personally use them with shimano sp41 cable hose, jagwire ultra elite slick wire, shimano hg-x e8000 chain 138-version, sram eagle 12x rear derailleur and 11x XT shifter ( shifter as it comes with the Frey). i know - it is mixed - but very,very,very smooth shifting.

12x (and even 11x, besides the long needed chain length needed for the frey) might have problem with big tires, chain might rub against the big tire in the lowest gear, but normally the 11x cassettes have enough space. another thing to mention that sram rear derailleurs dont bent the lower chainline towards your tire like shimano rear derailleurs - have a look at the shimano rear derailleur cages - lower pulley is a little "bent" (its extreme with 12x 9100/8100/7100 where the whole cage is bent but it is also with 11x rear derailleurs). lower chainline with shimano might be a little better (because upper pulley is positioned better under the largest cog) but you loose some important millimeters so the chain can rub against the tire.

now its 1 year and 2000km with my frey am1000. and it is really smooth - i really love it

Hello All, I received my AM1000 around early May. I gotta say that this is my first ebike and that I really love riding it. When I went for my first rides I noticed that the shifter would take the chain past the high and low gears and would cause the chain to fall off. About a month ago I took the bike to a LBS and had the derailler adjusted. Now under heavy peddle power the chain is jumping gears like crazy. It has actually come off the sprocket the past two times I have rode it. I went for the SRAM EX 1 thinking that it is a better setup. The bike only has 200 km and I am not a hard rider. I do ride mostly level 5 when in the street but other then that I ride on level one or two on trails. Can anyone shed light on where my problem could be?

Thanks

bugnut said:

Hello All, I received my AM1000 around early May. I gotta say that this is my first ebike and that I really love riding it. When I went for my first rides I noticed that the shifter would take the chain past the high and low gears and would cause the chain to fall off. About a month ago I took the bike to a LBS and had the derailler adjusted. Now under heavy peddle power the chain is jumping gears like crazy. It has actually come off the sprocket the past two times I have rode it. I went for the SRAM EX 1 thinking that it is a better setup. The bike only has 200 km and I am not a hard rider. I do ride mostly level 5 when in the street but other then that I ride on level one or two on trails. Can anyone shed light on where my problem could be?

Thanks

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measure your chain and sprocket wear with a park tool chain checker or at your LBS.. what is your smallest rear cog, do you use the small cogs often or the middle cogs?? small cogs will wear quickly under motor power and that will stretch the chain.. stretched chain and worn cogs often causes chain jumping under load..

efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:

bugnut said:

Hello All, I received my AM1000 around early May. I gotta say that this is my first ebike and that I really love riding it. When I went for my first rides I noticed that the shifter would take the chain past the high and low gears and would cause the chain to fall off. About a month ago I took the bike to a LBS and had the derailler adjusted. Now under heavy peddle power the chain is jumping gears like crazy. It has actually come off the sprocket the past two times I have rode it. I went for the SRAM EX 1 thinking that it is a better setup. The bike only has 200 km and I am not a hard rider. I do ride mostly level 5 when in the street but other then that I ride on level one or two on trails. Can anyone shed light on where my problem could be?

Thanks

Click to expand...

measure your chain and sprocket wear with a park tool chain checker or at your LBS.. what is your smallest rear cog, do you use the small cogs often or the middle cogs?? small cogs will wear quickly under motor power and that will stretch the chain.. stretched chain and worn cogs often causes chain jumping under load..

Click to expand...

Yep, seems chain or/and cogs are worn out - but already after 200km ?
Cassette is 8x with 11-48 on an HG freehub.Sram recommends 10 or 11 speed chain because the cogs are not really 8x wide. the original chain is cheap , 10x with 144 links.
Do you have the original sram chain on your bike? I think „EX1“ is written on the chain links...
Chain lock in the right direction?
Chain too long? Perhaps less tension in higher gears...
and of course checking the chain as written before might help...

ps. EX1 largest 48t sprocket is made of aluminium - i dont know why sram did this? I think this is the weakness of this cassette. but your problem seems to be different...

mwesleyroper said:

Deafcat said:

mwesleyroper said:

Luna released their full suspension X-1 with a 2000 watt Bafang M600 a few days ago. Very affordable.

Click to expand...

That bike is beyond ridiculous. Firstly, no evidence the M600 can handle 2kW for any length of time. Secondly, even if the motor survives, they frocking equipped the bike with an NX Eagle 12-speed drivetrain, which is an aluminum XD interface cassette not even remotely capable of handling those power levels... Then for this wonderfully light bike they added four-piston (!!) brakes, because that's totally necessary... What will break first? The frame? The rear hub/cassette? the motor? the chain? What a crap-shoot. $3500 USD entry price to ride an electro-mechanical time-bomb.

Click to expand...

You had me thinking Luna may have indeed lost their marbles when you mentioned the aluminum cassette. However, after going to the source and reading about their cassette I think Luna made one of the best choices in cassettes. The cogs are made of steel while the carrier is aluminum. SRAM claims, "The PG-1230 is the only Eagle cassette that meets durability requirements for E-MTB applications". Sounds legit to me.

Click to expand...

According to Luna's product page the X1 is equipped with the Sram SX Eagle 12 speed (not the NX). The SX uses the PG-1210 cassette. Note the PG-1210 product page does not contain the E-MTB durability language.

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cs-pg-1210-a1
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cs-pg-1230-a1'

That said, I don't see anything remotely close to this bike in terms of value at this price point, even if you had to replace the drivetrain.

If anybody in on the market for the lightly used Frey AM1000 in large size with some great commuter-centric upgrades, I have one available for sale with free US shipping. 800 miles only.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=101210

Where do you guys order the am1000 from? because i see cinline bikes also have the am1000. is that a Frey knockoff or is it the same?