Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jul 20 2019 10:02pm

Tommm wrote:
Jul 20 2019 10:07am
Rix wrote:
Jul 20 2019 10:03am
Joachim wrote:
Jul 19 2019 11:17am
235 Dollar for this upgrade :oops:
Riders with a 32" inseam or longer may like this.
It might cost less to shorten your inseam.
If only that were true hermano. :wink:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » Jul 21 2019 2:38am

Merlin wrote:
Jul 20 2019 7:41pm
...not sure in which direction goes this journey/topic....

the surron was the best bang for the buck for most ppl. most critism on size, power whatever was ignored.

in all groups it starts with:

-buying a surron in eu for 4000€
-replacing supension mostly 1000€
-replacing controller/battery 1500€
-buying bigger sprockets or getting tired of mid noise -> belt kit 350€
-replacing brakes to (ya right) shimano superhero now its not squeeking anymore 200€
-switching plastic china tires to something working
-replace handlebars, fenders, footpegs upgrade to a higher seat position because to be honest IT IS SMALL :lol: ~250+

now you peak the ~7500€ and are ready to..........what? :idea: :wink:
for off-road riding only these upgrades have real sense, on the 45kmh road version you need just good tyres and the rest is fine for city commuting 60km range.

I have the street version for 2 months and almost 3000km driving on pefement/city roads.
I like the bike and use it as a car replacement in the city.

maby this is the moment sur-ron to offer just the frame for people wants to build the rest of the bike themselves :mrgreen:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by dirkdiggler » Jul 21 2019 8:42am

I'm selling my fastace fork if anyone here is interested. Needs to be rebuilt, doesn't hold air very well anymore. In good shape besides that.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e12000.m ... Tags=bu=bu
I'm liking the Dnm fork for now.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jul 21 2019 9:32am

Joachim wrote: maybe this is the moment sur-ron to offer just the frame for people wants to build the rest of the bike themselves :mrgreen:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=99566
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by kitaoka » Jul 21 2019 12:44pm

I was surprised and honored when WebBikeWorld asked me to write an article about my own long term use of the Sur Ron.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/sur-ron-light-bee-review/
WBW My Article.JPG
WBW My Article.JPG (384.47 KiB) Viewed 852 times

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jul 21 2019 6:33pm

Aquakitty wrote:
Jul 17 2019 10:31pm
fechter wrote:
Jul 16 2019 3:23pm
The camera works very well, even on the bumpy stairs. I suppose there's a chance the video could be used against you if you were at fault. Does it have an instant delete everything button?
This seems like some stupid behaviour. Driving that fast on sidewalks, no insurance etc. and you reaction is to delete when you are at fault? This is just gonna get stuff regulated even more. At this point you are just an uninsured motorcycle.
You can see there was nobody around and the sidewalk was very wide. I wouldn't do that on a crowded sidewalk or where I couldn't see people until it was too late to stop. The bike is also noisy so people hear it coming, you can see the women who walked over to the side when I was far away as she heard the bike. She so me earlier so she knew what what was coming.

Yes, these bikes are basically motorcycles, I've said that many times, you can't fool anyone with this. This stuff is also regulated in my city and basically banned so I can't make anything worse.

I don't plan on being at fault and if I was why would I offer any evidence? Lets be honest here. I wouldn't delete anything I just would not even mention I had a camera. Just because I'm honest, don't hold that against me. Most people are not going to offer evidence against them.

At the end of the day I'm still on a bike and if I hit anyone I'm also going to get hurt badly, I drive extremely defensive. My goal isn't to hit anyone or anything. Most likely someone is going to hit me. What you see in that video is someone who has lots of experience driving like that and I know where you can ride fast and where you can't. I've been on these paths a million times.

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jul 21 2019 6:50pm

kitaoka wrote:
Jul 21 2019 12:44pm
I was surprised and honored when WebBikeWorld asked me to write an article about my own long term use of the Sur Ron.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/sur-ron-light-bee-review/
WBW My Article.JPG
Nice write up. I agree with you this bike is really good with almost no cons. I also find it extremely reliable, nothing breaks on the bike and I've been punishing / abusing it. The spokes did loosen for a while but finally seemed to not come loose anymore, probably not perfectly true considering how many times I've tightened them but the bike seems to ride straight. I can't believe 12 gauge spokes work fine. I've broken them all the time on my hub motor bike but that was probably because of the steep angle.

The other thing I like is that bolts rarely come loose on the bike. I was also having to check the bolts on my hub motor bike because many would always come loose. I have yet to find a loose bolt anywhere on the frame and I check them ever few rides. Spokes do unfortunately come loose, but that was because of insufficient torque when they were built and not really a bike issue but a wheel issue.

The suspension is amazing, plush, yet handles any rough stuff.

The bike actually has plenty of power, the bike fast especially when you have not rode your 10KW in a while.

The bike also doesn't overheat with the stock controller, when I climbed those 10 flight of stairs with my Sur-Ron my hub motor bike would have overheated the Sur-Ron can be pushed very hard and doesn't overheat. This is a big deal because hub motors were so easily overheated, especially in the summer heat.

I honestly don't see how you could make a better ebike or improve even improve on the frame? This is probably as good as it will get with ebikes in this class. No reason to tinker anymore.

The one CON that I do not like is the bike was made for 26" forks and unfortunately 26" is an obsolete size. Hard to find decent forks in 26" and it will only get worse. Would have been nice if the bike was designed for 27.5" forks but I'm not sure if that would be possible with the bikes small wheels.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jul 22 2019 12:18am

AlexisSurRon wrote:
Jul 15 2019 7:30am
3DTOPO wrote:
Dec 19 2018 9:11pm
Lelandjt wrote:
Dec 19 2018 6:12pm
What pressures are you guys running in the stock tires for trail riding? My trails are a bit rocky and high speed so I'm around 23 rear, 21 front to avoid pinch flats and squirming. I want to try lower but worried about impacts.
I run around 12psi. With the FOC X Controller, it was tearing the valve stem so I switched to tubeless and haven't looked back.

I wouldn't go below 15psi without switching to tubeless.
Is this a common experience? I’m going through tubes and I can’t figure out why... is the acceleration that awesome? :lol:
I ride mainly city and love ripping it, what tire pressure do you suggest?
I have new tubes on the way right now... :roll:
It seems like I started getting torn valve stems on the back tubes only after I upgraded to the X Controller. I think if it has enough power to lift the front wheel off the ground, it has enough power to make the tire slip. Especially with lower amounts of pressure in the tube.

Before switching to tubeless, I had torn I think 4 valve stems on the back and only once on the the front (low tire pressure and braking hard coming down a steep mountain seemed to cause the front to fail).

BCTECH wrote:
Jul 15 2019 11:56am
Finer wrote:
Jul 15 2019 11:49am
I am also running M403's on both my Light Bees (with x controllers). After every 20 miles + trail rides, all four valve stems look like they are ready to rip off. I have been letting the air out, straighten them up and do it all over again. Tried running as high as 15 pounds and it didn't help (also bouncing all over the trail). Rims are clean but the most interesting thing is the direction the valve stems go every time. It's not from acceleration, it's from braking. Guess I'll try to make them tubeless. If it works, I can finally run properly low pressures.
have you tried using rim lock?
Personally I think tubeless is 110% the right way to go. Instead of adding (off center) rotating mass with a rim lock, you are considerably reducing rotating mass by removing the inner tube. I was running heavy duty tubes too, which were close to 2 pounds each. Compared to 4oz of sealant, thats a huge difference in rotating mass. And the sealant can swim around, so I don't really even consider it fixed rotating mass. So its like 4 pounds less rotating mass. What is that, like nearly 4% of the total vehicle weight?

Another advantage is you can run lower pressure with tubeless.

On top of that, punctures that would cause a flat are self-sealed with tubeless. It makes getting a flat nearly impossible.

And surprisingly, my tubeless set up holds air better than inner tubes did. I haven't had to fill them once since going tubeless, like 8 months ago.

So not only have I not gotten a single flat since going tubeless - I haven't even had to fill them up.

It's pretty cheap (compared to what 5+ inner-tubes I went through) and pretty fast. Just clean the rims and the bead of the tire with paper towels and rubbing alcohol. Next add gorilla tape around the rim (like a few inches past a single wrap) covering the spoke holes - rub on the tape real good. I used a razor blade to cut off the tape that was on the sides so it didn't mess with the seal. Then pop the stems though.

Last, I just put the tires on and filled with Stan's no-tubes. The whole thing probably takes about 30 minutes.

The hardest part is getting the air to fill fast enough for the bead to seal. The only way that I have been able to do to get it to seal is use a compression strap around the tire and fill with an air compressor. Can take a few tries.

Here is everything I used to convert:

Stan's NoTubes Tire Sealant $17: https://amzn.to/2y0grDV
Injector $10: https://amzn.to/2JR5D0s
Gorilla tape $8: https://amzn.to/2XWyHgN
Stan's Valve Stems $16: https://amzn.to/2Y7LLv8

If you don't have a strap:
Ratchet strap: https://amzn.to/2Y9FsHf

I used M403 tires - not sure how well the stock tires will work - but I my guess is that they would.
M403 tires: https://amzn.to/2Y98t5W

It also worked with a slightly wider Maxxis
Maxxis Maxxcross MX IT: https://amzn.to/2Sw1pzg

Oh yeah, you will also need a tool to remove the valve core before filling it with the fluid then put them back on after filling with fluid. But the stem valve caps I have have the tool built in....

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by schrotte » Jul 22 2019 5:59am

If you have a street legal version and just want to turn of engine stop and keep the break light active.
Easiest way is to cut the green yellow wire which goes directly in to the controller and seal it up.

racingame   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Jul 22 2019 3:10pm

kitaoka wrote:
Jul 21 2019 12:44pm
I was surprised and honored when WebBikeWorld asked me to write an article about my own long term use of the Sur Ron.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/sur-ron-light-bee-review/
WBW My Article.JPG
Sorry for asking, but aren't you the photographer who also owns a blog? I think I saw your name already somewhere (I often remember Japanese names), but I'm not sure... Anyway, grats for the article. :mrgreen:

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jul 23 2019 7:08am

This is why I don't worry about police in NYC. Imagine one of them asking me to stop to confiscate my bike and rape me with tickets.


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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Jul 23 2019 8:36am

Offroader wrote:
Jul 23 2019 7:08am
This is why I don't worry about police in NYC. Imagine one of them asking me to stop to confiscate my bike and rape me with tickets.

That's amazing. In LA, the cops would be shooting.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jul 23 2019 9:42am

fechter wrote:
Jul 23 2019 8:36am
Offroader wrote:
Jul 23 2019 7:08am
This is why I don't worry about police in NYC. Imagine one of them asking me to stop to confiscate my bike and rape me with tickets.

That's amazing. In LA, the cops would be shooting.
The old days of police with unchecked powers and thinking they are above the law are quickly coming to an end. Do we really need police?

Actually we really don't need them for the most part, there was this economics book I picked up in a library once which discussed this topic among other wasteful things which you think are necessary. Basically the author said that without police the public would enforce the laws privately which would be more effective and much cheaper then a state paid police force.

One of my favorite countries to live in is Cambodia, they basically don't really have police for the most part. This is one of my favorite places to live. It functions fine in my opinion and you can do what you want. You have what I call pure freedom. While they do have police they really don't do anything except harass you for bribes in the main cities if you are scared enough to actually pull over for them, $2 dollars is enough for them to let you go. In the smaller cities you won't see any police, very calm and peaceful without police out there to harass you and ticket you every second of the day. Yes I'm sure if you are really out of hand the people would enforce the law.

You are probably thinking, if we don't have police someone will come to my house and rob my stuff. Well that is why you and your neighborhood would pay for private security which would be much more effective then state paid police who only come after you were robbed.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jul 23 2019 10:42am

so now only the wealthy get private police and criminal justice ?? :P
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tommm » Jul 23 2019 4:09pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 23 2019 10:42am
so now only the wealthy get private police and criminal justice ?? :P
In the west, they are called gated communities.

Tbh I like eastern europe more. Great scenery and familiar culture, similarly low policing of ebikes and such, you are close to the civilized world, but the same money goes 5-8x further if you invest in property.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jul 23 2019 8:09pm

racingame wrote:
Jul 22 2019 3:10pm
kitaoka wrote:
Jul 21 2019 12:44pm
I was surprised and honored when WebBikeWorld asked me to write an article about my own long term use of the Sur Ron.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/sur-ron-light-bee-review/
WBW My Article.JPG
Sorry for asking, but aren't you the photographer who also owns a blog? I think I saw your name already somewhere (I often remember Japanese names), but I'm not sure... Anyway, grats for the article. :mrgreen:
There are so many sites out there that claim to not be affiliated with Luna Cycles, such as Marks, that I have to say I am skeptical that Mark has no affiliation with Luna Cycles. Luna had Mark on their Podcast:

and even use Mark's photo for the thumbnail of that video - I have to say I am dubious. Also, isn't Mark a "moderator" for Luna's Sur Ron page?

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Liu   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Liu » Jul 24 2019 3:33am

engate wrote:
Jul 18 2019 1:42pm
Well this rear mudguard didn't last long. It broke off at 70km/h.. It wasn't a pleasant experience.

Image
Image
Is it broken due to vibration or collision?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by engate » Jul 24 2019 5:20am

Liu wrote:
Jul 24 2019 3:33am
engate wrote:
Jul 18 2019 1:42pm
Well this rear mudguard didn't last long. It broke off at 70km/h.. It wasn't a pleasant experience.

Image
Image
Is it broken due to vibration or collision?
Vibration

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jul 24 2019 12:39pm

Yup... On our surron it's also broken. And no spares available.
Glad the dealer sended one from another bike 👍

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by engate » Jul 24 2019 2:11pm

A new one will break as well. So I just simply won't buy another one.(because the dealer in Hungary told me that if something breaks like that that's not under warranty.)
We welded it instead. The welder told me that he never seen such a poor quality thin metal in years to hold a rear fender :lol:

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jul 24 2019 2:17pm

Nice dealer.... If it's not a crash I will replace it (free) 2 years long and then throw it away :p

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by kitaoka » Jul 24 2019 11:47pm

racingame wrote:
Jul 22 2019 3:10pm
kitaoka wrote:
Jul 21 2019 12:44pm
I was surprised and honored when WebBikeWorld asked me to write an article about my own long term use of the Sur Ron.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/sur-ron-light-bee-review/
WBW My Article.JPG
Sorry for asking, but aren't you the photographer who also owns a blog? I think I saw your name already somewhere (I often remember Japanese names), but I'm not sure... Anyway, grats for the article. :mrgreen:
No need to be sorry. Yes I am a full time pro shooter. I started the Sur Ron site to keep my pro and fun life separate. I use to be a moderator on the private Facebook Sur Ron Group, but since I strongly disagree with Facebook's business practices I deactivated my account. So to help other owners i took the time to build a Sur Ron site. WebBikeWorld approached me about writing a long term article of my experience with the bike. Here's a link to my SR site:
www.sur-ron.markkitaoka.com

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by kitaoka » Jul 24 2019 11:55pm

[/quote]

There are so many sites out there that claim to not be affiliated with Luna Cycles, such as Marks, that I have to say I am skeptical that Mark has no affiliation with Luna Cycles. Luna had Mark on their Podcast:

and even use Mark's photo for the thumbnail of that video - I have to say I am dubious. Also, isn't Mark a "moderator" for Luna's Sur Ron page?
[/quote]

Yep I 'was' one of the moderators for the Private FB Sur Ron Group. I was simply a member there and they asked me to be a moderator. I deactivated my FB account because I hate FB's business practices. And 'if you are skeptical' of my affiliation with Luna because I was asked to be on their podcast I will only say that I have no affiliation other than as an owner who has modified his own bike to my own taste. Think what you like because it makes no difference to me. I took the time to build a site to help other Sur Ron owners simply because there are not many resources out there for us. And I HATE forums, but posted here to let people know my intent in building the site.

Take care and best of luck.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jul 25 2019 12:11am

kitaoka wrote:
Jul 24 2019 11:55pm

Yep I 'was' one of the moderators for the Private FB Sur Ron Group. I was simply a member there and they asked me to be a moderator. I deactivated my FB account because I hate FB's business practices. And 'if you are skeptical' of my affiliation with Luna because I was asked to be on their podcast I will only say that I have no affiliation other than as an owner who has modified his own bike to my own taste. Think what you like because it makes no difference to me. I took the time to build a site to help other Sur Ron owners simply because there are not many resources out there for us. And I HATE forums, but posted here to let people know my intent in building the site.

Yeah - I thought so. In fact, you are the one who kicked me off the group. I believe it was because I disagreed with your claim that bleeding the brakes would improve braking power even if the system had adequate pressure to fully engage the pads before bottoming out - which is laughable.

I recall that thread was started because I was just saying the braking power left something to be desired riding down steep mountains, and you and other Luna heads vehemently disagreed with me. Funny, because in Luna's podcast #4 Eric totally admits the braking power is one of the biggest issues with the bike.

I personally don't care what you think either. Just alerting people here to take your site with a grain of salt. We've seen numerous sites that claim to have no affiliation with Luna that are actually ran by Luna.

I find it very difficult to believe they would make a total stranger with no ties to Luna a moderator. And to have them on their first Sur Ron podcast. And to give him all those photo ops you took advantage of. And to even use his photographs. Seems impossible for all that to happen with no affiliations whatsoever.

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jul 25 2019 12:39am

You hate forums and Facebook terms?
May I ask you why?

About Facebook, pretty sure you aren't one of those idiots who did posts on his site with disagree of Facebook terms.
Nobody has to post anything, nobody has to upload anything.
You could be part of groups and interact with your words only.
If you don't want it's also OK. Be one of the read only guys.
But that would be like a website too.... A one way information exchange.

Since Iam from Europe I have nothing to do with Luna and his oversea stuff. But this hair loving guy disqualified himself in his podcast asking the surron guys why they don't used bicycle chains....

Without a forum we wouldn't be where we are in Ev stuff.
Surron spreads his wings in forums first. If no Luna guy ever would use a forum they would never got the luck for their gold cow contract with the surron guys.

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