New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
- Thread starter larsottar
- Start date
I just finished electrifying my town bike and it is great. Now I am thinking about trying to electrify our tandem. I don't know if anyone has tried this yet?
There are many potential challenges, first is my wife (stoker) is not a strong peddler.
So my first question is should I go with a torque sensor or PAS system?
My thinking is to mount the motor on the stoker BB, and only have 2 chainrings (vs the current tripple). As the captain chainring is on the left side and I don't know if the motor will fit in the adjustable BB.
The more I think about it I will try to fit it into the front BB. Mainly because I am the 70-80% of the input power, while the stoker is 20-30%. This maybe a real challenge with the adjustable BB mount (for getting the chain slack correct. Then linking to the small chain ring on the stoker crank.
Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks Rick
There are many potential challenges, first is my wife (stoker) is not a strong peddler.
So my first question is should I go with a torque sensor or PAS system?
My thinking is to mount the motor on the stoker BB, and only have 2 chainrings (vs the current tripple). As the captain chainring is on the left side and I don't know if the motor will fit in the adjustable BB.
The more I think about it I will try to fit it into the front BB. Mainly because I am the 70-80% of the input power, while the stoker is 20-30%. This maybe a real challenge with the adjustable BB mount (for getting the chain slack correct. Then linking to the small chain ring on the stoker crank.
Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks Rick
casainho said:
Thanks
what's the status of the SW102? I've seen a thread, but is there a version yet?
Also, I had seen someone post a video of a bike controlled through a bluetooth mobile phone. Is there a mobile phone app in the working? Or a piece of code I can start from
?samuelsson87 said:I just bought my second motor from PSW but there seems to be a loose panel on the drive side where the cables goes.
Do I need to worry about water getting in?
See video on this link for better understanding: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gf09u4ycKT_6gD4GjJQ2qiKbhWb6NhL4/view?usp=drivesdk
This is somewhat normal. Inside the panel is a big blob of silicone where the wires actually enter the motor keeping it waterproof and sealed.
SlowCo
1 MW
maximusdm said:
Replace the open cable with full length Bowden cables and route them elsewhere to give the motor room.
casainho
10 GW
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 6,045
SW102 has about 50% done but are the foundations and nothing is usable right now.csbike said:casainho said:
Thanks
what's the status of the SW102? I've seen a thread, but is there a version yet?
Also, I had seen someone post a video of a bike controlled through a bluetooth mobile phone. Is there a mobile phone app in the working? Or a piece of code I can start from
With my kit I received a speed sensor with a double connector but I won't be running any lights (for now). It didn't come with any dust caps for the connectors, was it supposed to or what are other people doing to keep water etc out? I don't want to silicone it up as I may use it in the future.
I might order the single connector version from PSWpower, but I recall someone doing that with the intention of making a programming cable but receiving a double one anyway "at no extra charge" . Has anyone here successfully ordered a single connector version from them?
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2016-5n-qtqt
This is what I currently have.
I might order the single connector version from PSWpower, but I recall someone doing that with the intention of making a programming cable but receiving a double one anyway "at no extra charge" . Has anyone here successfully ordered a single connector version from them?
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2016-5n-qtqt
This is what I currently have.
famichiki said:
In case anyone else is interested, I've measured the 8 pin cable at 5.7mm. I was considering running the display cable through where the front derailleur cable was.
In comparison, gear shift cable housing is 4mm and both brake cable and hydraulic hose is 5mm.
RicMcK said:
I've done quite a few tandems. Put the mid-drive in the stoker BB position. It makes no difference to the captain since the captain is coupled directly to the stoker on the left side. It won't work on the captain BB anyway if it is eccentric for chain adjustment.
The left stoker crank will need to be square taper with the same size chainring as the captain. You can change them both if you need to. They just both need to be the same size so the cranks are synchronized. You likely won't need more than one chainring on the stoker drive side. Just use the ones on the rear cassette. Most riders find they need a lot fewer gears with a motor. You only need about a 24" extension for the main display harness to reach the pilot's bars.
Good luck! They are really fun.
famichiki said:
I just put several layers of insulating tape all around. Unless you plan to go underwater with it, it should be enough to protect it from splashing water. You could also use a double-layer thermoretractable sleeve with adhesive for extra safety.
casainho
10 GW
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- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 6,045
Current state of the 850C LCD firmware, which I hope to release soon another new version:
I got working the quick selection of variables to show on the graph: on the main screen, we need to click + long click on ON/OFF button and the graph title blinks, then we can select another variable by using UP and DOWN buttons. Then we leave this mode by long click on ON/OFF button.
Other than the regular variables like pedal human power, pedal cadence, battery voltage, motor power, etc, we can also select ones that are tecnhical like motor angle FOC (maybe in future this can be disabled in configurations).
I took a ride and let me show the graphs (graph shows an interval of 15 minutes) and let's learn a bit how the motor works.
On this ride I was able to go up to 47.6 kms/h:
My cadence was max of about 90 RPMS:
The human power max was about 150 watts:
And the motor current max was:
And the battery voltage, as we can see it dropped with the current peaks. (Some 0 values on the graph, must be some issue).
And the motor power, was max of 704 watts (see that for I get up to the 47.6 kms/h on a light descend, I had to do 154 watts on the pedals while the motor pulled 704 watts from the battery -- assist level factor of about 4.6):
The motor temperature did increase a bit after this short current peaks:
Motor PWM duty-cycle (possible max value is 255):
Motor ERPS (electric rotations per second), where max permitted value is 525 but with high cadence mode this value can be higher:
And the FOC algorithm angle, it increases with both motor ERPS and current, this is what makes the motor to run most efficient possible, having the most torque possible for the same battery usage power and be most silent possible:
And finally, the battery SOC based on Coulomb counting which has good accuracy:
I got working the quick selection of variables to show on the graph: on the main screen, we need to click + long click on ON/OFF button and the graph title blinks, then we can select another variable by using UP and DOWN buttons. Then we leave this mode by long click on ON/OFF button.
Other than the regular variables like pedal human power, pedal cadence, battery voltage, motor power, etc, we can also select ones that are tecnhical like motor angle FOC (maybe in future this can be disabled in configurations).
I took a ride and let me show the graphs (graph shows an interval of 15 minutes) and let's learn a bit how the motor works.
On this ride I was able to go up to 47.6 kms/h:
My cadence was max of about 90 RPMS:
The human power max was about 150 watts:
And the motor current max was:
And the battery voltage, as we can see it dropped with the current peaks. (Some 0 values on the graph, must be some issue).
And the motor power, was max of 704 watts (see that for I get up to the 47.6 kms/h on a light descend, I had to do 154 watts on the pedals while the motor pulled 704 watts from the battery -- assist level factor of about 4.6):
The motor temperature did increase a bit after this short current peaks:
Motor PWM duty-cycle (possible max value is 255):
Motor ERPS (electric rotations per second), where max permitted value is 525 but with high cadence mode this value can be higher:
And the FOC algorithm angle, it increases with both motor ERPS and current, this is what makes the motor to run most efficient possible, having the most torque possible for the same battery usage power and be most silent possible:
And finally, the battery SOC based on Coulomb counting which has good accuracy:
knutselmaaster
1 kW
Wow, that really looks great!
casainho
10 GW
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2011
- Messages
- 6,045
There is a new developer (geeksville) working on the SW102 LCD and he is fast!! In one day the main screen is almost done:
Please note that he did a mistake and used the old design proposal that included a graph on the main screen.
View the discussion thread here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/SW102_LCD_Bluetooth/issues/3
Please note that he did a mistake and used the old design proposal that included a graph on the main screen.
View the discussion thread here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/SW102_LCD_Bluetooth/issues/3
casainho said:
It was all of a sudden, when changing gears I felt some resistance for 10 seconds and then stopped. I did have my motor apart a few rides ago to add the temperature sensor(was not configured yet). It seems only the wires connected to the yellow phase wire are burned near the entry. Rest or motor wires are not black, so I guess likely controller short or maybe yellow wire touched the case where housing was damaged. If was over temperature I think all wires would be black instead of just on one corner of the motor.
Black mark on motor shell:
Hi, i finally have upgraded my tsdz2 with open source fw!
I have a doubt regarding configuration.
What is the behaviour of 7.1 parameter?
I have read in the manual that this is the motor power limit. I have set it to 350W but i have seen on the motor power field that the instant power goes above the value that i have set.
I have the 36V 350W version of the tsdz2 powered by a 10S-5P battery made with samsung 29e cells which is the maximum power and current that i can consider to set?
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Maurizio
I have a doubt regarding configuration.
What is the behaviour of 7.1 parameter?
I have read in the manual that this is the motor power limit. I have set it to 350W but i have seen on the motor power field that the instant power goes above the value that i have set.
I have the 36V 350W version of the tsdz2 powered by a 10S-5P battery made with samsung 29e cells which is the maximum power and current that i can consider to set?
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Maurizio
andrea_104kg
1 kW
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2018
- Messages
- 344
it's not a short circuit it's just too much heat. I have repeatedly seen the temperature sensor reach 105 degrees. I think it's a miracle if my engine is still able to turn. a short circuit does not burn the windings, the motor stops first. This is the reason that led me to radical changes shown in another post. I noticed studying the sensor that the worst situation is not in off-road but in long road climbs faced at maximum power. just 1km at 8% at max power to overheat the engine.
andrea_104kg said:
It is strange because I’ve done this ride over 100 times. Yes it is steep and I did not have my temp sensor configured yet. Guessing motor is around 100c+ as I do 2Ah 48v in 10 minutes, 4km.
Isn't 80c a little conservative? Is 80c the highest known safe value, worried my motor might cut out daily on my commute at that low of a value. BUT I don't want it to burn my new one out also, so willing to reduce power output to save it. Those with temperature sensors, what do you have yours set at?
