Is it realistic to expect using y DIY ebike all year round in Switzerland?

S

skestans

100 W
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
208
Location
Switzerland
I plan on building one around a TSDZ2 and a Marin Muirwoods, plus another one around a Cube Hyde.

Is it realistic to expect riding these for commuting to work (10-20km return max) even through rain or winter (full fenders)? Or mid-drives and batteries are only made for fair weather or the occasional light rain?
 
What are the lowest temperatures you expect to encounter? Batteries don't do well far below freezing. I also suggest you design the pack to be stored and charged indoors. That means easy on and easy off the bike.
 
Lebowski said:
I did 25km a day on my homemade bike with my homemade motor and homemade controller. All worked flawlessly for 11000km at which point the batteries were end of life...
Click to expand...

I was more worried about the winter weather rather than longevity. 11k km in clement weather would be different that 11k km in winter I suppose.
 
LeftieBiker said:
What are the lowest temperatures you expect to encounter? Batteries don't do well far below freezing. I also suggest you design the pack to be stored and charged indoors. That means easy on and easy off the bike.
Click to expand...

Temperatures range from -10C to +30C, typically. There is between 50 and 150mm of rain depending on the season with 10-15 days of rain/month.

I do plan on storing and charging the pack indoors, yes. I'm worried about rain, snow, and salt (ice) potentially coming in contact with the battery and the motor while I'm getting around.
 
It's easy to seal a pack from the elements. It's a bit harder to do it with a motor, so you'll need the most water-resistant mid-drive available. Given those will be on the bike I wouldn't expect any big problems with water/salt incursion. Remember to size the pack 50% larger (at least) than you will need for Summer riding.
 
Yep, also used it at -10C. One day while cycling in the snow I had so much ice on my rear sprockets that the pedalling chain kept slipping (it was ice-rain, the whole sprocket thing was a block of ice) but the motor was fine. Rode to work the last 5 km on motor only (which used a separate chain to the wheel).

All this between Adliswil and Zurich Technopark (it froze up about 1km before Sihlcity).

More critical to winter performance is not to let your battery get cold. I had garage parking at home and work so it was always around 15C when starting out for trips.

P.s. i used the ebike in winter with spiked tires...
 
Switzerland is a very awesome country, been there once and man oh man was it a great country.

I ride year round in Canada, its harsher weather then Switzerland.
I'd go for a direct drive motor kit, like the Leafmotor/Leafbike kits, and have a easily removable battery to bring in with you.
If cant do that, then have a little heater wrapped around the battery. You could use "Battery Heater" meant for a vehicle, or make your own heater by using Chromium wire used in Vaporizors cig replacements, Fasttech.com sells that wire. Then calculate how much heat you want for a given temperature.
 
Switzerland seems like it would be one of the worst places for diy ebikes with extremely strict police enforcement.
 
flat tire said:
Switzerland seems like it would be one of the worst places for diy ebikes with extremely strict police enforcement.
Click to expand...

They allow 45 km/hr speed pedelecs with 1000 watt motors. You must register, but registration also pays for your insurance. They also allow 25km/hr pedelecs with 500 watts (no registration). As e-bike rules go, these seem like some of the better ones in Europe.

Perhaps they have some restriction on DIY ebikes I'm not aware of?
 
I plan on using a TSDZ2 as a motor. I don't know about rules against DIY ebikes. Everyone seems to have no problem spending 5k CHF on a mass market ebike with 250W motors. I hope their Eis nothing against diy but I haven't seen any and I can't understand German very well so my research didn't go very far.
 
There are some restrictions (but don't take my word for it). Bikes with gashandle, only up to 20 kmh, pedal assist up to 25. Forget about getting a 45 kmh homemade bike approved, so many hoops to jump through... Best is just to be aware you're doing illegal stuff, so don't draw attention to yourself. When I rode mine there were not many ebikes around, no one paid attention. But now...
 
I don't think I want to go that fast anyway, I'd be happy with 25-30km/h. The TSDZ2's open source firmware also has a street mode that limits the power and speed, and an off-road mode where you can have a higher power and speed limit. It can be toggled on the go without reprogramming. I might just use that to be compliant (and, I assume, retain insurance coverage should anything happen)

The restrictions seem to be 25kmh max with a 500W max motor, or 45kmh max with a 1000W motor but then you're considered a cyclomotor and have to have a registration plate, insurance, and wear a helmet. Source https://m-way.ch/fr/legislation

I didn't see any restrictions in terms of diy VS factory made/approved.
 
skestans said:
I didn't see any restrictions in terms of diy VS factory made/approved.
Click to expand...

You may want to check with your DMV just to be sure. I read an account of a guy how purchase a ready-made ebike in Germany, but ended up in bureaucratic hell when they gave him the a Certificate of Conformity for the wrong class of bike. He got the correct C of C, but then they complained that they couldn't register a bike that had two C of Cs. Aaaarghhh. His solution was to take the bike back to Germany and get it registered there. That way he could use the German registration to establish registration in Switzerland and bypass the need for a C of C.

Who knows. Maybe this was just a fluke. But I'd check first before spending money. Maybe some kits will be easier to get certified than others? Like maybe the ones from Swiss makers. :^)
 
The ebike kit is not the problem registering a high power ebike, but everything else. You need a technical test and proof for the frame, the brakes, the handlebars, the pedals, …
It is easy to use ebike approved "everything" - but not the frame. To get your frame approved can be hideously difficult and expensive.
If you buy a ready made high power ebike the manufacturer gets his stuff approved (and pays the price) and hands you the certificate. For him the financial investment is worth it, since he sells more than just one.
 
But why would I need a certificate of conformity if I'm not building the 45 km/h version (the one that requires insurance, a license plate, and is considered a high power motorbike in CH)?
 
I guess an important unasked question is:

Is the bike *rider* in question able and willing to ride in all the weather conditions expected, for the distances expected? ;)
 
amberwolf said:
I guess an important unasked question is:

Is the bike *rider* in question able and willing to ride in all the weather conditions expected, for the distances expected? ;)
Click to expand...

I think I'm good, I used to ride year long in Canada (on a regular bicycle though)
 
skestans said:
But why would I need a certificate of conformity if I'm not building the 45 km/h version (the one that requires insurance, a license plate, and is considered a high power motorbike in CH)?
Click to expand...

In that case, you will not.
 
https://www.baselland.ch/politik-und-behorden/direktionen/sicherheitsdirektion/motorfahrzeugprufstation/fahrzeugprufung/technische-aenderungen/e-bike-eigenbau

Have a look at the pdf, page 5. I think this is the type you want to build. 20kmh with gas, 25 kmh without so only support when pedalling (hybrid use as they call it). Then on page 6 in the blue column it mentions 500W, so make sure the motor has a sticker on it with the maker, type and Watts. This is the dauerleistung (so long term average power), momentary power can be higher. The popular Bosch motors for instance have 250W, but can do 750 for a short time.
 
Lebowski said:
https://www.baselland.ch/politik-und-behorden/direktionen/sicherheitsdirektion/motorfahrzeugprufstation/fahrzeugprufung/technische-aenderungen/e-bike-eigenbau

Have a look at the pdf, page 5. I think this is the type you want to build. 20kmh with gas, 25 kmh without so only support when pedalling (hybrid use as they call it). Then on page 6 in the blue column it mentions 500W, so make sure the motor has a sticker on it with the maker, type and Watts. This is the dauerleistung (so long term average power), momentary power can be higher. The popular Bosch motors for instance have 250W, but can do 750 for a short time.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that's helpful. Now I have to find where to print a professional looking sticker that can withstand elements to slap on the TSDZ2!
 
To give an update, I’ve been riding the bicycle over the winter and most of the snow days. It’s fine. The road is usually cleared and salted. With the right clothing it’s not a problem.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
There are some places that will sell you a sticker of the wattage you want and even holographic. Then find something to coat the sticker so it stays on. Next step above and beyond that is to get a professional looking metal engraved wattage markings.

Aside from those two things, just ride normal bicycle speeds and blend in. Do some fake/ghost pedaling if needed. Then when the hills come and you need speed and throttle so go accordingly.

You can hide the motor pretty easily, along with the controller and battery are all hidden easy enough.

No need to jump through bureaucratic hoops.

If you got pinched for dui/dwi or lost your license in any other form, then you need to not stick out, stealth is key, so act accordingly and ride out the license suspension term.
 
No it’s fine, I left the assist cut off at 25 km/h, that’s enough for me. And I don’t use a throttle, so if I don’t pedal then the bicycle doesn’t move.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Opinion on donor bike and overall plan for TSDZ2 conversion?
Replies
9
Views
1,553
Genesis Andy
G
Volvofan
My M2S All Go Carbon (Alienozo) w/ Bofeili Crank Drive
Replies
2
Views
2,556
Volvofan
Volvofan
PacoMarkE
Winter Project! BBS02 DIY Build
2
Replies
39
Views
15,290
LowkeeRider
L
S
New winter commuter
Replies
4
Views
1,046
wesnewell
wesnewell
X
Serial-hybrid Delta SWB Velomobile
2
Replies
29
Views
8,300
amberwolf
amberwolf
Back
Top