New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Retrorockit said:
Here is a price sheet for the Panasonic TIM pads.
............... Lower # is better. You can see that a thinner pad has less resistance, and lower cost. If used inside a copper ring to tranfer heat from all the way around the motor.......
I understand your arguments for this choice. Copper and a thin pad, but I think it wil not be practical.
First the price of the Panasonic is extreme high in comparision with other thermal pads.
Second I think copper and aluminium is not a good combination because of the electrode potential of metals, one of the metals will be corrode. In this case the aluminium casing. Corrosion is an isolator, so the effect you want to achieve is lesser you want. If you use aluminium for that ring (conductivty of 250 W/m-K) then there will be no problem.
Last point is, you want contact with the casing as much as possible. Then you need some elasticity from the thermal pads, wich is less with thinner pads.

Imho, a better choice would be a half ring of aluminium, what has a snug fit inside the front of the casing, sticked to the laminated metal of the motor with elastic thermal pad and also stick inside the flat side of the cover casing an elastic thermal pad ring that rest a the top of the motor after fastening the cover.

Why a half ring. This because there must be some pressure to it if you mount the cover casing.
I think this is almost impossible with a sticked full ring.
 
I just ordered a TSDZ2 with VLCD5 from PSWPOWER with Caoster brake function 36v 350watt.

Hoping to convert my Cruiser 3 spd IGH. I found out it uses an American bottom bracket 68mm and I will adapt that to a EURO BB. It should work I hope....
 
Elinx said:
Retrorockit said:
Here is a price sheet for the Panasonic TIM pads.
............... Lower # is better. You can see that a thinner pad has less resistance, and lower cost. If used inside a copper ring to tranfer heat from all the way around the motor.......
I understand your arguments for this choice. Copper and a thin pad, but I think it wil not be practical.
First the price of the Panasonic is extreme high in comparision with other thermal pads.
Second I think copper and aluminium is not a good combination because of the electrode potential of metals, one of the metals will be corrode. In this case the aluminium casing. Corrosion is an isolator, so the effect you want to achieve is lesser you want. If you use aluminium for that ring (conductivty of 250 W/m-K) then there will be no problem.
Last point is, you want contact with the casing as much as possible. Then you need some elasticity from the thermal pads, wich is less with thinner pads.

Imho, a better choice would be a half ring of aluminium, what has a snug fit inside the front of the casing, sticked to the laminated metal of the motor with elastic thermal pad and also stick inside the flat side of the cover casing an elastic thermal pad ring that rest a the top of the motor after fastening the cover.

Why a half ring. This because there must be some pressure to it if you mount the cover casing.
I think this is almost impossible with a sticked full ring.
That's the beauty of DIY. You can do whatever you want. The cost of the Panasonic pads is high, but the performance is very high also. I always look at the best material available, and work down to what is practical for me. The Cu,Al erosion issue would be true if there was an electrolyte such as water present ( as in CPU water cooling loop, or automotive cooling systems). Just about every computer heatpipe cooler has Cu pipes pressed into Al fins with no issues. But thermal grease will isolate the 2 metals both physically and electrically. The grease will also allow movement for expansion as will the themal pads. Cheaper pads are always an option and should perform just fine. The ring could have a gap in one place to allow for linear expansion that way also. This may be needed to adjust the diameter anyway. But you are looking at all the right issues to be considered. The choice between Cu and Al may come down to what dia. and wall thickness tubing is available to make the ring. Either one willl transfer heat much better than a single thick thermal pad. My thinking on the expansion of the Cu ring is that it will allow easy assembly when cold, but will expand create pressure to improve heat transfer when at working temperature.
 
Here are good news about the new SW102 Bluetooth display:

1. firmware update using wireless Bluetooth works (still, first we need to open SW102 to wire STLinkV2 and flash our bootloader)
2. Strava mobile app sees and pairs with the SW102, to get information about wheel speed, pedal cadence and battery state (this is a working in progress but as you can see, it already works partially)

Today I was testing the firmware and update process using Bluetooth of SW102. This is the current boot screen:



Updating the firmware (using the mobile app NRF Connect):



Connect to Strava, was just a matter to start searching sensors and then selecting the " OS-EBike sensors" and then they will be paired:



 
So I wore out my blue gear after 1600 miles or so and replaced it with the brass one. The motor feels more responsive and it isn't even that noisey though the sound is kinda inconsistent and not a constant whir like the nylon one. Only problem now after several hundred more miles is I get major clicking and creaking when I pedal. Have I worn out the cranks? I've ordered some more. I also just got delivery of a new sprag clutch bearing. Shall I just put it in straight away? Are there any better cranks for people like me who like to out of saddle sprint and turn off the assistance when I feel like beefing up my quads?
 
When a crank is tightened as it should, it doesn't ware.
Sometimes the bolt comes loose and if one continues riding with a loose crank, it will deform (in this case, the square hole will get rounded) and will need to be replaced.
Check from time to time if the bolt is still firmly tightened to prevent problems of this kind.
 
QuirkyOrk said:
Here in Boston we just had the hottest July on record, so I took it upon myself to do a thermal management mod for the TSDZ2. I was routinely having to dial back my assist usage to stay below 75C on my 23 mile (37km) round trip commute so I decided I would do something about the TSDZ2's awful thermal management (Love the motor overall though).

What I ended up doing was two things...

-I filled the air gap around the motor with a thermally conductive silicone pad so that it now has something to shed the heat to the outer casing other than a not very thermally conductive pocket of air.

-I attached some aluminum fins to the casing of the TSDZ2 so it will cool down quicker. To do this I sanded down the casing to the bare aluminum and then attached some aluminum electronics heatsinks with a thermally conductive epoxy. These work very well as there is constantly air flowing by the bike as it moves along.

These two things have made a huge difference. I pushed the motor extremely hard on my commute yesterday at 4x power multiplier and it never got above 58C. Before when I would use the bike at a much lower assist level I would be right below 75 by the time I got to work.

Looks like we are all suffering from the overheating issue. I recently installed the temp sensor, and was a little disappointed to find the 'E06' showing on the LCD, after only going a short distance (Turbo setting) and when the ambient temp was only app 20C. I raised the temp cut out from 75C to 80C for the power reductions and from 85C to 90C for the power cutoff. I also resigned myself to using a lower power setting (Tour and occasionally speed) to avoid the temp limit. I do miss using the Turbo option though.

Some method to improve the cooling of the motor would definitely be useful. The thermally conductive pads you have tested is an attractive option both for its simplicity and its cost effectiveness. I found that my motor was not particularly hot to the touch when it had reached the temperature cuttoff point, so I suspect that the heat sink fins may not be essential, or possibly a reduced length and quantity. Of course with the heat transfer of the pads, some heat sink might be required.

Thanks for the suggestion and the results of your testing.

Cheers Emma
 
I have tow motors.One ( with 8 pins) have any problem with the flash FOS. Other ( 6 pins) is impossibel to flash:Ever give this error:

Programming PROGRAM MEMORY area...
< PROGRAM MEMORY programming completed.
> Verifying PROGRAM MEMORY area...
< PROGRAM MEMORY successfully verified.
> Programming DATA MEMORY area...
< DATA MEMORY programming completed.
> Verifying DATA MEMORY area...
Error : Verify failed at address 0x4000
Error : < DATA MEMORY verifying failed.
Error : < Operation aborted.

I used v0.18 and 0.19

Whats happen?

I can flash the stock firmware without problem.

Thank´s
 
hego said:
I have tow motors.One ( with 8 pins) have any problem with the flash FOS. Other ( 6 pins) is impossibel to flash:Ever give this error:

Programming PROGRAM MEMORY area...
< PROGRAM MEMORY programming completed.
> Verifying PROGRAM MEMORY area...
< PROGRAM MEMORY successfully verified.
> Programming DATA MEMORY area...
< DATA MEMORY programming completed.
> Verifying DATA MEMORY area...
Error : Verify failed at address 0x4000
Error : < DATA MEMORY verifying failed.
Error : < Operation aborted.

I used v0.18 and 0.19

Whats happen?

I can flash the stock firmware without problem.

Thank´s
Can you please confirm that the error is always at 0x4000?

Can you please erase and try write a known pattern like all 00 or all 11?

Can you write at that specific 0x4000 address or over that address to confirm you can write there??
 
Yes , Casainho .Ever the problem is the same. Sometimes, I dont know why the arguments in the memory are others diferents values as "00".....''?????
Sometimes are values like this... ( At 0x4000) ... CD 00 0A 32 86 01...

Maybe there is a limitation of memory for the differents series of STM8S105x4 iusses or x6 one.

Is very strange...a motor workm. an other is imposble. ?????????????

What us wrong in my process.

Cheers
 
hego said:
Yes , Casainho .Ever the problem is the same. Sometimes, I dont know why the arguments in the memory are others diferents values as "00".....''?????
Sometimes are values like this... ( At 0x4000) ... CD 00 0A 32 86 01...

Maybe there is a limitation of memory for the differents series of STM8S105x4 iusses or x6 one.

Is very strange...a motor workm. an other is imposble. ?????????????

What us wrong in my process.

Cheers
When and where did you bought this motor?

I was afraid of this but I expected it was unlikely to happen.

Yes, the motor controller microcontroller is marked as STM8S105x4 that should have only 16 kbytes of flash memory. It is well known that some popular microcontrollers like STM32F103 of 64 kbytes flash memory have instead 128 kbytes and the same happens with STM8S105x4 that all of them I tested had instead the 32 kbytes flash memory.

That is why original firmware is only 16 kbytes.

So what should we do now??

I think I know but as I am being saying, it is probably another project to make our OpenSource firmware fit on the 16 kbytes by removing most of the options, etc. Maybe there is someone with energy to do that, I am not.
 
Is there a changelog for the firmware?

I'm having issues with battery percentage not working properly on my v0.18.2 and want to see if it's been addressed before I hassle with updating.
 
emr said:
QuirkyOrk said:
Here in Boston we just had the hottest July on record, so I took it upon myself to do a thermal management mod for the TSDZ2. I was routinely having to dial back my assist usage to stay below 75C on my 23 mile (37km) round trip commute so I decided I would do something about the TSDZ2's awful thermal management (Love the motor overall though).

What I ended up doing was two things...

-I filled the air gap around the motor with a thermally conductive silicone pad so that it now has something to shed the heat to the outer casing other than a not very thermally conductive pocket of air.

-I attached some aluminum fins to the casing of the TSDZ2 so it will cool down quicker. To do this I sanded down the casing to the bare aluminum and then attached some aluminum electronics heatsinks with a thermally conductive epoxy. These work very well as there is constantly air flowing by the bike as it moves along.

These two things have made a huge difference. I pushed the motor extremely hard on my commute yesterday at 4x power multiplier and it never got above 58C. Before when I would use the bike at a much lower assist level I would be right below 75 by the time I got to work.

Looks like we are all suffering from the overheating issue. I recently installed the temp sensor, and was a little disappointed to find the 'E06' showing on the LCD, after only going a short distance (Turbo setting) and when the ambient temp was only app 20C. I raised the temp cut out from 75C to 80C for the power reductions and from 85C to 90C for the power cutoff. I also resigned myself to using a lower power setting (Tour and occasionally speed) to avoid the temp limit. I do miss using the Turbo option though.

Some method to improve the cooling of the motor would definitely be useful. The thermally conductive pads you have tested is an attractive option both for its simplicity and its cost effectiveness. I found that my motor was not particularly hot to the touch when it had reached the temperature cuttoff point, so I suspect that the heat sink fins may not be essential, or possibly a reduced length and quantity. Of course with the heat transfer of the pads, some heat sink might be required.

Thanks for the suggestion and the results of your testing.

Cheers Emma

Supposedly the thermal management works much better if you set the lower limit to a much lower value like 50c. How many amps/watts are you running?
 
Does anyone have good instructions for installing the temperature sensor on the 8 wire version. I just got my replacement motor and don't want to burn up this one also. Last time I tried to install i think i ended up splicing into the wrong wires as it acted like ebrake was activated when sensor was plugged in. Is there more than one white wire in the controller?

Wiki Pic:
wir.JPG
 
QuirkyOrk said:
ezrider1199 said:
QuirkyOrk,

What thermal pad thickness do you recommend? i saw they start at 0.5mm and go up by 0.5mm increments. Thanks

I used these 2mm pads (The only reason I chose these was it shipped from the US and I am inpatient :D )

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Grey-GPU-CPU-Heatsink-Thermal-Conductive-Silicone-Pad-100mm-x-100mm-x-2mm-US/254000030793?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The 2mm seems to be a good thickness so that one layer of it will just contact the outer shell and still allow the casing to be slotted over. I tried 2 layers of 2mm sheets stacked and I could not get the shell on. On the top of the motor the patches are 2 layers 2mm pads stacked on top of each other. I ordered a couple 3mm pads today and I am going to experiment with those as well.

I actually currently only have about 1/3 of the circumference of the motor, where the gap is the thinnest, covered in thermal padding. There is definitely room to make the contact patch bigger and increase performance even more.

Do you think these would be ok? I can get an entire sheet for $10CAD shipped.

https://www.amazon.ca/20x20x2mm-Silicone-Thermal-Interface-Heatsink/dp/B01N1QIS11/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=2mm+thermal+silicone+pad&qid=1565797084&s=gateway&sr=8-3
 
Yes , Casainho .Ever the problem is the same. Sometimes, I dont know why the arguments in the memory are others diferents values as "00".....''?????
Sometimes are values like this... ( At 0x4000) ... CD 00 0A 32 86 01...

Maybe there is a limitation of memory for the differents series of STM8S105x4 iusses or x6 one.

Is very strange...a motor workm. an other is imposble. ?????????????

What us wrong in my process.

Cheers
 
emr said:
QuirkyOrk said:
Here in Boston we just had the hottest July on record, so I took it upon myself to do a thermal management mod for the TSDZ2. I was routinely having to dial back my assist usage to stay below 75C on my 23 mile (37km) round trip commute so I decided I would do something about the TSDZ2's awful thermal management (Love the motor overall though).

What I ended up doing was two things...

-I filled the air gap around the motor with a thermally conductive silicone pad so that it now has something to shed the heat to the outer casing other than a not very thermally conductive pocket of air.

-I attached some aluminum fins to the casing of the TSDZ2 so it will cool down quicker. To do this I sanded down the casing to the bare aluminum and then attached some aluminum electronics heatsinks with a thermally conductive epoxy. These work very well as there is constantly air flowing by the bike as it moves along.

These two things have made a huge difference. I pushed the motor extremely hard on my commute yesterday at 4x power multiplier and it never got above 58C. Before when I would use the bike at a much lower assist level I would be right below 75 by the time I got to work.

Looks like we are all suffering from the overheating issue. I recently installed the temp sensor, and was a little disappointed to find the 'E06' showing on the LCD, after only going a short distance (Turbo setting) and when the ambient temp was only app 20C. I raised the temp cut out from 75C to 80C for the power reductions and from 85C to 90C for the power cutoff. I also resigned myself to using a lower power setting (Tour and occasionally speed) to avoid the temp limit. I do miss using the Turbo option though.

Some method to improve the cooling of the motor would definitely be useful. The thermally conductive pads you have tested is an attractive option both for its simplicity and its cost effectiveness. I found that my motor was not particularly hot to the touch when it had reached the temperature cuttoff point, so I suspect that the heat sink fins may not be essential, or possibly a reduced length and quantity. Of course with the heat transfer of the pads, some heat sink might be required.

Thanks for the suggestion and the results of your testing.

Cheers Emma
The motor housing not being hot to the touch is a result of no heat transfer occuring. It's all staying inside the motor. The outside must get hot to transfer heat to the air. If it has fins it may not get very hot either, but that's because it's rapidly transfering the heat it has recieved though the pads, or other device. The heat distributing surface needs to be hotter than the air, but cooler than the desired motor temperature. The hotter the air, the more surface you will need for heat transfer. But first there needs to be a connection between the motor and the cooling surface.
Passive cooling like this can't go below air temperature. The more surface area the closer it can get to that result. It remains to be seen what's actually needed. I'm sure an actual engineer could calculate what's needed. Better TIM costs money, larger heatsinks cost money, thermal sensors cost money. Burnt up motors cost money too. I would start with a better spec. TIM pad (3M?) and then see if you need to add a heatsink. Since you have a thermal sensor it should be obvious.
 
I ordered the TSDZ2 coaster from PSWPower. They are shipping it from Singapore. Did anyone notice that they are shipping it out of Singapore instead of China?

I thought this motor was made in china, why would they be shipping it out of Singapore?
 
wpenner said:
Does anyone have good instructions for installing the temperature sensor on the 8 wire version. I just got my replacement motor and don't want to burn up this one also. Last time I tried to install i think i ended up splicing into the wrong wires as it acted like ebrake was activated when sensor was plugged in. Is there more than one white wire in the controller?

Wiki Pic:
wir.JPG
Please try to understand the notes on wiki and post specific questions you have - please post numbered questions.
 
2019-08-14-18-18-39-1.jpg


As I wanted the 850C and SW102 display on my handle bar, so I can connect one at each time and so test/use each one, I decided to move the 850C keypad to right side and because of that I implemented an option on firmware to invert the up and down buttons, otherwise would not be possible to use the key pad on right side. I hope to release a new firmware version for 850C on next days.

SW102 works very well but the main screen design is far from ideal and I think geeksville will focus on the design now.

The wiki has now instructions for the 3 displays: 850C, SW102 and KT-LCD3. I think the wiki need to be improved for this new displays, there is a good lack of information. For instance, I would like to build a table with the advantages an disadvantages of each display so it will be easier for new users to decide which they prefer.
 
wpenner said:
.................................

Do you think these would be ok? I can get an entire sheet for $10CAD shipped.

https://www.amazon.ca/20x20x2mm-Silicone-Thermal-Interface-Heatsink/dp/B01N1QIS11/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=2mm+thermal+silicone+pad&qid=1565797084&s=gateway&sr=8-3
This are all small parts of 20mm. Isn't it better to buy one or more sheets of 100mm that you can cut into the dimensions you need.
Like this one.

Another thing is to look at the thermal conductivity value.
The cheap pads have a value from 1,5 to 2W/m-K sometimes 3 to 3,5W/m-K.
The higher this value, the better is the heat conductivity, but also the higher the price of the pad.
Although it is always better than the thermal conductivity of air between the motor and the casing, that is only 0,03W/m-K

Artic 6W/m-K
Gelid 12W/m-K
 
Casainho, the motor purchase was made three moons ago at PSWpower- Europe-hub in Germany.

http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo-s210025

I brougth now an other controller ( 8 pins) from Aliexpress, but first will try the old stock firmware ( and his display) for verificatión.The stock Firmware have not flash error.I think it works normally.

I try to flash two controllers ( 6 and 8 pins) and both works with v.018 and v.019.No problem with them. Maybe any series of STM8S105x4 can´t handler more at 16kbs.How know?. Cheap and not spanded RAM Memory versions?

The program verifity is correct.The problem seems is with the RAM memory. ''?????????

I tell you anything about this.

Thank´s
 
hego said:
Yes , Casainho .Ever the problem is the same. Sometimes, I dont know why the arguments in the memory are others diferents values as "00".....''?????
Sometimes are values like this... ( At 0x4000) ... CD 00 0A 32 86 01...

Maybe there is a limitation of memory for the differents series of STM8S105x4 iusses or x6 one.

Is very strange...a motor workm. an other is imposble. ?????????????

What us wrong in my process.

Cheers

Make sure when you are flashing both the motor and display with the Open Source Firmware (OSF) that you set the following or the programmer will think you don't have enough space

Screenshot 2019-08-15 11.12.09.png
 
The config is right:

STM8S105x6 for OSF ( No flash only my last controller, the others, yes)
STM8S105x4 for stock Firmware. ( Flash alll controllers)

Is puzzle because I´m the only one with this effect.When somebody suffer the same, we can suspect a problem with the memory, but....no.

I will try others things, e.g. my computer behavoir. or similars

Thank´s for all.
 
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