Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

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adam333   100 W

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by adam333 » Aug 13 2019 11:43pm

tonystark20 wrote:
Aug 13 2019 7:35pm

EDIT: also wanted to say that I get tones of compliments on the suspension. and I'll admit I like it too. (and I most certainly give credit to you when people ask about it... just saying.) I also notice with my bike being in the sun a lot the anodized coating has taken on a copper-ish color. which I think looks cool. and the hex bolts haven't rusted anywhere near what i thought they might. (easy enough to clean and lubricate to prevent further rusting)
Thanks for the kind words :D

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by amberwolf » Aug 14 2019 4:15am

Sounds like the BMS in the battery shutdown to protect it from something, real or imaginary (defect). Could be a broken sense wire to a cell; cheap BMSs don't usually detect that but a good one should. Could also be overcurrent if something shorted inside the controller (but that would probably lock up your wheel, as it would probably be FETs in a phase to get that much current).
tonystark20 wrote:
Aug 13 2019 7:35pm
The 5v line coming out shows the power going up and down with the blinking of the power light.
That probably means it is charging up with the leakage current from the battery's BMS in BMS shutdown mode, then it reaches the point it tries to activate, which drains the charge, and repeats the cycle.

If you have a power supply or other battery of enough voltage, you can at least see if the controller will power on.

You can also see if the battery reactivates it's output if the controller is disconnected from it.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Aug 14 2019 4:25am

The cycle analyst will boot up normally and stay stable during my testing. The software of the BMS also has no log of shut down except for an over charge condition. (Which I know is from driving downhill on one of my trips (after I'd just charged) by all accounts the BMS appears to not be the cause.

But thanks for the suggestion

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Aug 14 2019 12:23pm

I really didn't want to wait to hear back about the warranty... I have an event Saturday and next Thursday and next Saturday/ Sunday that I really wanted to drive to. So I took the controller apart hoping it would be a simple capacitor that was burned out that could be easily replaced...

Turns out 4 of the mosfets are completely destroyed.

Lets see how quickly I can get replacements...

EDIT: me being impatient I was looking online the mosfet currently in mine is the TDM31026... which only comes from one company in china, no ebay, no nothing. could I swap all 24 mosfets in my controller for the IRFB4110. The specs seem better on the 4110 in terms of dissipation and current handling but everything else appears the same for Rds on and such.
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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by amberwolf » Aug 14 2019 7:16pm

That's some pretty extensive explodies.

is that just one phase? I wonder what caused it?

As long as things like the gate charge value (Qg, I think) and such are the same, or at least similar, the FETs will be able to be driven by the existing electronics.

YOu may have to also replace the gate drivers--they are often taken out by FET failures, especially ones as dramatic as that.

tonystark20 wrote:
Aug 14 2019 4:25am
The cycle analyst will boot up normally and stay stable during my testing. The software of the BMS also has no log of shut down except for an over charge condition.
Ok, just that you said the CA shut off during the incident, whcih means power was cut to it. That means the battery was disconnected from it, and that usually means the BMS shut off.

There must be something different about how your setup is wired; something that disconnected the power to the CA. If the CA is powered by the controller's output that is only activated when the controller is actively operating, that would do it, but that would be unusual in itself. (most controllers have no battery-level output that they control that way.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Aug 14 2019 8:57pm

amberwolf wrote:
Aug 14 2019 7:16pm
That's some pretty extensive explodies.
I'd say the cost of the 24 replacements of 4110 cost me 115 (half what I paid for the controller) will be delivered tomorrow.
amberwolf wrote:
Aug 14 2019 7:16pm

is that just one phase? I wonder what caused it?
Yep, just the one phase. Ground side. From what I gather on these forums is that sabvoton stop being made in 2014, anything after is a knock off... and apparently these FETs are the know weakness. One or 2 sets will blow. And from what I saw the high the amps your running (even if within spec) the faster they burn out.
amberwolf wrote:
Aug 14 2019 7:16pm
You may have to also replace the gate drivers--they are often taken out by FET failures, especially ones as dramatic as that.
as far as I can tell everything else is in great condition. I'll find out when I power it up again after replacing parts. unfortunately all my equipment is in storage so I don't really have any way to test parts. (been moving too much since college and haven't had a permanent place yet)
amberwolf wrote:
Aug 14 2019 7:16pm
Ok, just that you said the CA shut off during the incident, whcih means power was cut to it. That means the battery was disconnected from it, and that usually means the BMS shut off.
The display did turn off, (its wired inline to the power going to the controller) my guess is that these FETs which were the ground side had failed to ground (they are on the ground side) which triggered the BMS and as I was trying to accelerate it likely dumped voltage back to the charged battery triggering overcharge condition on the BMS. (if that makes sense. but after a reset the display would come on, the controller wouldn't.

Either way thanks for the information. shall be interesting if new FETs will fix and sustain the issue. just glad it didn't break on one of my long trips. (longest has been 200km one way) in this case I was a 5 minute push back to home.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Aug 15 2019 7:02pm

So i replaced all the mosfets, that was tedious as my soldering iron was having difficulty keeping up (its 60w) but the heat kept being pulled away from the thick power traces. I also think it would have been easier if i had a de-soldering station or wick. but alas I did complete the task and it wasn't a half bad result. assembled controller plugged it in (power wires only and turn it on...

Nope same blinking red light. took it apart to spot any issues... nothing visual no blow ups. I noticed the usb power has the power wire connected so I used my programmer (ch370 that I use for my arduino mini's) and was able to have it turn on, so I could actually communicate. went back to wire it to the trike.

Was able to see all the information when connected and powering the 5v externally. I tried to hit the throttle to see if it would drive. But no luck powering it with 5v externally (with and without com port attached) My next issue is to figure out why the power supply isn't working but that is a task for another day. rally wish I had the budget to buy another controller. will likely buy an adaptto controller. but don't have the budget to really buy anything right now.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by amberwolf » Aug 15 2019 10:20pm

I'm not sure Adappto is a good choice; what I have seen here on the forum is that they may no longer be around other than sometimes eventually repairing stuff sent back to them, not making new stuff anymore. Some people have had a hard time getting stuff back from them after sending it back for epair.

You'd have to check that out yourself, before buying, to be safe.



For the power supply problem, if a gate driver did blow up, it could be shorting the supply out, keepng it from starting up (if it's an SMPS). Find the power supply pin to the gate driver chip, and disconnect that. If the PS comes back then the gate driver chip is toast.

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Aug 16 2019 10:56am

Thanks for the information about adaptto. It would explain why I'm having trouble finding retailers with stock, most either are sold out or have the listing removed. That's a bit of a shame. I like the idea of the BMS being linked as well as the mode where you tell it how far you need to travel and it keeps the watt hours where it needs to be. I only wish it had reverse. plus the cost was up there. But the weight and space savings would be nice. especially for my next design. Guess I might start looking at open source projects and adding my own flair to some designs.

I finally got an email back from QS. they wanted me to ensure battery was charged (it is) and to power it via ground and ignition only. which confirmed what I already knew. (computer / power supply is bad) I keep talking to them maybe I'll get lucky and they can send me one. if they want it sent back well that not happening. its far to expensive to ship back. (that and I've already tried fixing it, and it'll be noticeable that its been modified.

On to the controller:

the orange arrows are pointing to the IR2110 gate drivers. There are not shorts on any of the chips. they all display ~180ohms.
the green is the two AMS1117 one is 3.3v the other 1.8v. They don't indicate any shorts either. upon power up these show 1.5v incoming. (fluctuates between 1-1.5v) so the problem is upstream.
I'll have to take the heat sink off to get at parts on the bottom. None of the parts on the top get warm when powered.
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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by tonystark20 » Aug 16 2019 2:59pm

update. took the heat sink back off to see the underside.

I found a diode on the transformer that was reading wrong (not blocking voltage) so i removed it and powered the controller. it turned on. put a replacement diode and powered it... and it wouldn't turn on. So i removed the diode and started testing. as far as I can tell there is a short to ground when the diode is connected. my best guess is the short is thru the transformer itself. I checked the original diode and its still in working order, so the issue i had detected before removing it was the short not the diode itself. I'm temped to assemble the heat sink again with the diode off and see if it will power the motor with the diode removed. but I'm unsure the part of the supply the diode was for.

diode is near the yellow spot (removed in photo has silk screen diode symbol)

EDIT: assembled the heat sink powered the motor, no luck. but I was probing the pins. where the diode is, it is supposed to provide power to the gate drivers. so I definitely need to figure out why there's a short but as far I can tell the drivers aren't shorted but one of them must be, or some other component on the line is.
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ecross   1 kW

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Re: Custom KMX recumbent trike with QS205

Post by ecross » Aug 17 2019 3:36am

Hello,

thanks for the Controller pics.

-your Trike is great
-I use into my new Trike a Nucular 12FET Controller, have a look to his new Controllers, very easy to programm and robust
-viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494

BR
NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

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