Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

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eee291   100 kW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by eee291 » Aug 27 2019 5:22pm

I don't know why you quoted me and EG if you have nothing (useful/on topic) to say.
I'm done spamming this thread.

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madin88   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by madin88 » Aug 28 2019 1:12pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Aug 27 2019 2:56pm
Regarding the 80-100 outrunner motor size. it is possible to buy after market magnets that are much stronger, but after owning several of this size motors from various sources, they all have N35 magnets. Go ahead and throw 100kw into the motor. It won't matter. You can only pull on the magnets at their maximum strength and not more than that. More wattage, even peak is only useful up to the magnetic strength and then it's just pointless.
You won't get higher peak power out of your motor if you install stronger magnets.
The only thing this would be useful for is if you want more torque in exchange for RPM (trading RPM for torque), nothing else.
And wattage practically means nothing for the magnetic circuit. It is the current in the winding which is relevant for that.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by TheBMallory » Aug 28 2019 2:52pm

Made a quick ride today and decided to change the throttle mode from torq+speed (a la Kelly) to torque mode. This is so much better, ramp up is quicker when going from standstill. And control at high speed is much smoother

It's nice to be able to change the setting on the fly without any usb dongle or anything

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Aug 28 2019 5:57pm

eee291 wrote:
Aug 27 2019 5:22pm
I don't know why you quoted me and EG if you have nothing (useful/on topic) to say.
I'm done spamming this thread.
looks like you ARE a dumbass dude.
if you dont understand what i wanted to say about peak i cant help you.

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Aug 30 2019 12:52am

madin88 wrote:
Aug 28 2019 1:12pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Aug 27 2019 2:56pm
Regarding the 80-100 outrunner motor size. it is possible to buy after market magnets that are much stronger, but after owning several of this size motors from various sources, they all have N35 magnets. Go ahead and throw 100kw into the motor. It won't matter. You can only pull on the magnets at their maximum strength and not more than that. More wattage, even peak is only useful up to the magnetic strength and then it's just pointless.
You won't get higher peak power out of your motor if you install stronger magnets.
The only thing this would be useful for is if you want more torque in exchange for RPM (trading RPM for torque), nothing else.
And wattage practically means nothing for the magnetic circuit. It is the current in the winding which is relevant for that.
READ what I wrote rather than skimming.

I mentioned stronger magnets in terms of magnetic torque. If you want to make the motor stronger, put stronger magnets in it...and of course rewind the stator for max copper fill.

Just throwing more current into the stator and you are already pulling on the magnets AT their maximum capability will NOT create more torque. It's just a waste of power and a great way to make heat.

Peak power is only useful IF it is within the limits of the magnets ability to create magnetic torque. Peak at 10kw on magnets that can hold against 3kw and your motor won't make 10kw of torque. It will make 3kw of torque and 7kw of heat!

Watts = volts x amps

What you say about watts not mattering? It's a relationship between the voltage and the current in the motor. As an experiment, get an RC ESC good for 1S or 4.2v, Beef up the mosfets on it so it can deliver something like 200 amps. Now run your motor at 4.2v and 200 amps. Lets see that baby run at 840 watts! Now put it on your 82v set up at 10 amps. I know which set up I want and it's the 82v/10A one! The motor will do MUCH better at higher voltage and low amps than it will at the same wattage at very high amps and almost no voltage. It is a relationship of both voltage and amperage, not just one without the other. AKA watts DO matter as it is an expression of that relationship.

I used to work on industrial 2 and 3 phase breakers. The little ones were 600 amps. The biggest one I worked on I stepped inside it to work on it...several thousand amps and it arrived at my shop on a semi trailer and nearly maxed out the weight limits of the truck! We had to rent a special crane just to get off the trailer bed. After I refurbished it''s contacts and re-calibrated its current sense coils, I then tested it on a special tool we had. It ran at 1v and could deliver many thousands of amps. You could put your wet hands on the main power posts at max amps and not die. So much for all those amps and no volts! You really need both.

Let's ask a different question. Which set up will make the most heat in the windings? It's current that creates heat, not voltage. AKA the 4.2v, 200A set up will heat up the motor more. Don't believe it? Do you know what a taser is? It's a high voltage low current power supply. The wires from the probes to the gun are very thin...something like 32 awg. IF there was more than a few milliamps on those tiny wires, they would heat up instantly and burn out. They do have several thousand volts on them and suffer no damage.

Back to that "peak" question which was from the video where the guy titled it 15kw blah blah blah. In the video he says he has 80-100 outrunner. What a total joke! Even IF he rewound that stator for max copper fill, he would still maybe get 7kw of useful power WITH stronger magnets too. with the factory N35's in it probably 1 or 1.5kw of that would be useless since the N35 magnets can't deliver more magnetic torque to react with the 7kw of torque in the windings. 15kw really? I'm not that gullible.

Again..peak is pretty meaningless. You can only pull on the magnets AT their maximum magnetic torque and no more. How about just set up your controller so it's phase amps are at whatever gets to that maximum magnetic torque? In that case, I can probably run all day long like that. Oh wait...that IS exactly what I do.

For anybody that cares, the Alien Power C80100...one of many 80-100 outrunners...is quite strong. I have one on a 75 pound stand-up scooter. I'm not exactly light at 240 pounds. Never the less at 66v, that "toy RC motor" hauls me around at a tidy 45mph top speed and I accelerate better than the cars do. I'd call that motor quite usable on an EV. Anything more than like 6kw is just laughable! It gets way too hot to pull off more than 5kw for more than a few seconds. I know, Ive seen what 6kw does to it!
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

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VasiliSk   1 kW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Aug 30 2019 1:06am

Guys stop flooding! This thread not about motors

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Aug 30 2019 7:44pm

VasiliSk wrote:
Aug 30 2019 1:06am
Guys stop flooding! This thread not about motors
OOPS! sorry you are right.
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

bionicon   1 kW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by bionicon » Aug 31 2019 2:09am

okay question about the settings in the controller 😀 is it possible to switch easy between pedalassist and trottle?

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VasiliSk   1 kW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Aug 31 2019 5:53am

there only 'disable PAS' port input in controller, with next FW release there will be more options available

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Aug 31 2019 5:21pm

new fw is coming?`

what will be fixed in the next fw?

bionicon   1 kW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by bionicon » Sep 01 2019 1:28am

ideal would be when turn key its on pedalassist and low power afther command on the sreen to go to trottle and full power :D

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Sep 01 2019 10:18am

there is bug list on wiki

Image

First one 24F assembled, we are going to test them in local area for some time before starting shipping worldwide

litespeed   100 kW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by litespeed » Sep 01 2019 11:07pm

That looks excellent!

Looking forward to getting one.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 02 2019 12:37am

litespeed wrote:
Sep 01 2019 11:07pm
That looks excellent!

Looking forward to getting one.

Tom
Getting one? I'm wanting 3 of them.
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

cheapcookie   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by cheapcookie » Sep 02 2019 4:43pm

is it possible to charge 21s battery with 24v psu ?

john61ct   1.21 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Sep 02 2019 5:58pm

21S = 72-91V depending on chemistry

So no, not without a DC-DC boost converter or specialist charger in between.

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cycborg   1 kW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by cycborg » Sep 02 2019 9:08pm

john61ct wrote:
Sep 02 2019 5:58pm
So no, not without a DC-DC boost converter or specialist charger in between.
As I understand it, the controller has exactly this function. I don't know if there is a limit to how much it can boost, though.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Sep 02 2019 9:46pm

Perhaps not relevant to your immediate need, but just as an idea to consider FFR

Standard RC balance chargers are a great way to go, 3* 7S can be very quickly charged to a perfect balanced state, then serial'd for use as a single 21S pack.


jameswalker   100 mW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by jameswalker » Sep 03 2019 3:33am

Just posting up to say that the 12F powered me to work this morning :)

The configuration is vast, certainly need to play around with the settings a LOT more!

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 07 2019 1:03am

VasiliSk wrote:
Sep 03 2019 1:34am
cheapcookie yes easy
A lot of people don't know how this works...using a large capacitive bank and an inductor to bump the voltage up to the pack voltage.

I've never used this before, just read about it.
What I understand is the capacitors in the controller and the motor windings are what is used to boost the voltage to pack voltage.

Since you've worked this out, please explain how it works.
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

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cheeko   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by cheeko » Sep 07 2019 1:14am

Hi All

I have Mxus 3K with 12F anyone know why it shunts at low throttle.. i do have motor inverted?

Any ideas

Peter
20S7P Futr Beta 26" Mxus3k with the Unbelievable Nucular 12F

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Cheburator   100 mW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Cheburator » Sep 08 2019 1:08am

VasiliSk wrote:
Sep 03 2019 1:34am
yes easy
is it possible to charge 14s battery with 54v psu ?

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Sep 08 2019 1:53am

3.86Vpc is **way** too low

Perfect for 13S though

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by lukashanak » Sep 08 2019 3:25am

Is someone reading wiki or tech info before ask? You can charge every battery with this converter only with one rule. PSU must be lower voltage than battery. Controller works like step up converter, that you can setup. Input amps limit, input voltage drop, output voltage output amps..... So teoreticaly, you can charge 80v battery with 12v PSU.
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

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