TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Electric Motors and Controllers
casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Sep 29 2019 12:22am

mittkonto wrote:
Sep 28 2019 2:15pm
casainho wrote:
Sep 28 2019 1:56pm
mittkonto wrote:
Sep 28 2019 1:24pm
Thank the gods! Hm, maybe I should do a build thread.
I was thinking that could be good to have on wiki example of users as also example off bike builds. I think your ebike category would be a fatbike, and maybe you could have a page for your build and for the usage type you do to the ebike.

This could be kind of show room of TSDZ2 ebike builds as also users.
I'd be honoured!!
So please start writing a wiki page. Just one page, with chapters and with a TOC at top, will be as this TSDZ2 FAQ page: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... i/wiki/FAQ

You can make first chapter with nice pictures of the final build and maybe talk a bit the advantages, what you like on this ebike. Maybe will also have information on how you use the ebike. This idea is the be informative to the reader and also make him dream with a build like that.

Other chapter after can be tecnhical about the build. You can use sub chapters.

Please write this wiki page on your github account, when finished, we can copy the page including the photos to the TSDZ2 wiki. The idea is to link from the first page to this showroom of builds so the new users can learn and see what is possible to build using TSDZ2.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Sep 30 2019 5:50pm

jbalat wrote:
Sep 20 2019 9:44pm
buba wrote:
Sep 19 2019 6:12am
jbalat wrote:
Sep 18 2019 6:58pm
Guys really getting excited about version 20, stil...
Thanks
JB
Would love for you to test the 0.20.0 and give some feedback! But I understand you are waiting for the stable release. Everything in the 0.20.0 should be really tight and well controlled without any bugs.

I have looked at the FOC and there are several ways to improve the efficiency and torque. This would result in a cooler motor with less heating but with the same or even more torque. This can be done just by optimizing the existing code and functions. Adding field weakening will increase the cadence at the cost of efficiency but this can be acceptable in many use cases.

I see these changes as one major upgrade in the future! But to do this properly we need some serious instruments to really accurately measure and validate the changes and values. You have a suspicion that the static value we use in the experimental mode is not the most optimal and this is most likely true.

If I were to do some testing I would remove the motor from the TSDZ2 enclosure and install it in a motor torque dyno. Would make some extensive testing in the lab and then adapt the firmware for maximum efficiency = maximum torque at any given load and speed.

I think one user reported that we are around 60-70 % efficiency. In the best case scenario we would maybe be able to get to 80-90 %. This would mean that the actual torque increase would be around 50 % from the current 0.20.0 Beta 1! And we would have far less heat developing in the motor!

Sadly, we would have even more stress on the system (bye bye blue gear!) but that is another problem :wink:
Buba glad to see we are thinking along the same lines, Instead of pulling the motor out I was thinking You could make a special version of the firmware that you could adjust throttle and advance angle by using up and down arrows and then mount the bike on a bike exercise machine with adjustable load.. then display all the stats on the screen which you could copy down and graph...
Sorry for the terribly delayed reply! We are definitely thinking along the same lines!

That would be possible to do but it is usually carried out with a motor dyno. Together with something like LabVIEW to automatically gather data points. In doing so we can make very accurate models of our motors. This in turn will help us to optimize the code and enable maximum system efficiency. Or maximum top speed for the fast bikers out there :wink:
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Sep 30 2019 5:54pm

andrea_104kg wrote:
Sep 21 2019 4:22pm
I just want to confirm, after a few days of use that the torque increase of version 20 beta1 is remarkable. Now the tsdz2 is back comparable with the turbo levo, slightly less but very little. with the 20 alpha version I thought I had burned the engine and was about to order a new one ... instead as if by magic the power is back. :D :D The only doubt is how much the poor motor will resist at 800w peaks ... and climb over 20% every day :( :(
Great to hear! Maybe future versions will be even more powerful! :wink:

As long as you do not overheat the motor it will never ever fail. That is why the temperature sensor installation is such a good idea for anyone pushing the limits and want maximum performance.
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Sep 30 2019 5:59pm

AZUR wrote:
Sep 22 2019 1:44pm
First of all I would like to thank you all for what you have done.

I'm going to do a second ebike with TSDZ2 and OSF.

I will (would like to) make a 1P15S battery with 21700 LG M50T cells that have about 5000mA capacity. These cells hold a continuous current of about 8A.
These cells also have about 1000 life cycles while the 18650 have 800 cycles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnB3vBUJ9z0

Each 1P15S battery will weigh about 1100g and will have a power of about 250Wh and over 450w of instant power.

My idea is to make several 1P15S batteries to use in parallel, depending on the power capacity I will spend.

Casainho has already tested the controller with a 62V battery and on the other hand the controller capacitors indicate 63V of nominal voltage.

see Casainho post at viewtopic.php?t=94220&start=75

It is natural for capacitors to have a tolerance of at least 5% (or even 10%) and therefore must tolerate more than 66V.

Will it be possible to make a firmware version for 15S and 63V?

I do not need 63V. I get the BMS to limit me to 62.5V (4.15X15 = 62.25V).

Thanks
Please keep us updated! I am very curious and will gladly help to update the firmware version if it is required.

For now, I think it is possible to configure up to 15S on the display so everything should work perfectly provided the hardware manages the higher voltage.

Cool project!
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Sep 30 2019 6:21pm

maximusdm wrote:
Sep 23 2019 7:51am
I did in last weekend a MTB track with 2000+m altitude level and 56km. I used 620 wh. Ride done with 0.20 beta1.

On flat road and medium ascend, power mode works perfect. Good power and better torque.

On difficult climb, Emtb mode is king! It has a lot of power and the motor reacts instantly exactly when you need it. The motor control is much accurate at lower speed than power mode and the power used is less for same effect.
There is no need for boost. The power comes exactly when needed and exactly as much is needed!

I have found no problems but I propose an improvement. On road I had to constantly stop and adjust the sensitivity according to the road. 4-5-6.
Since Emtb mode is better than torque mode and has no down side, I propose to make only one mode that has the emtb power delivery function and the assistance levels configured as sensitivities 1-20.

This release is solid gold! Thank you!
It seems you are very satisfied and that is just wonderful! :bigthumb:

Regarding the eMTB sensitivity: it is good that you have suggestions and provide the community with feedback! I think it is best to leave it as is for now and focus on releasing a stable release. And then we can improve everything even more in the future. There is still much more to do and I hope you keep giving suggestions!


bemused wrote:
Sep 23 2019 6:31pm
It does seem that different users have their own ideas about what the 'perfect' mode is -- and that also depends on exactly what situation they are dealing with at the time. I really like the idea of keeping lots of different modes so that each person can find the mode that suits him and his current riding condition. Procrustean beds went out of fashion a long time ago....
I also agree that one of the strengths in open source projects is the flexibility/choices/options. The 0.20.0 is the most customizable version to date and I think it is great!
Last edited by buba on Sep 30 2019 6:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Sep 30 2019 6:29pm

pikp0ka wrote:
Sep 26 2019 9:03am
Hi guys!

I ve been using the TSDZ2 motor for one month now and I am very impressed by the work you have done. I have the 0.19 version installed.

There is just one small issue I havent noticed when using the original FW. When I am shifting the gears down and still turning the pedals the motor starts to rotate. The human power on the display is usually 10 W, sometimes jumps to 20W. Is it possible to disable the assistance when the human power is below i.e. 15W Maybe it should be in settings.
Thank you so much on the behalf of all developers :)

I think you will find the 0.20.0 will be more responsive and shifting will hopefully be better!


pikp0ka wrote:
Sep 26 2019 9:03am
Today I just checked features of the new 0.20 FW. These modes you are introducing you have to choose individually? So eMTB mode together with Power mode or just one single mode? I sthere a plan to introduce a shortcut to switch between these modes i.e when you are down from the hill and enter the paved roads.

thx
You choose a default riding mode and have eMTB as the last assist level. So if you have 5 assist levels eMBT will be the sixth "assist level" and it will display an "E". But only if you have activated eMTB Assist. I promise you it will be very clear when you try it!

As for the shortcut, nothing is planned for now but it definitely possible for future versions.

Thank you once again!
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Sep 30 2019 6:36pm

daenny wrote:
Sep 27 2019 10:34am
I just installed 0.20 beta 1. And initial impressions is great!
:bigthumb:
Thanks for the hard work.

Emtb mode works great. I would love to have two emtb modes with different sensitivity.

I will report back after using it for my daily commute
Thank you Daenny! :bigthumb: Am very happy to hear that!

You are not the only one that has expressed the desire for "assist levels" when using eMTB so this is definitely something that we can discuss for the future firmware versions!
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Sep 30 2019 6:52pm

Casainho, some users are reporting a problem with the 0.20.0 Beta 1 KT-LCD3 firmware. I have verified the problem. It seems that the hex is too large. I am using the 3.9.0 version for SDCC and it generates smaller sizes. Are you using the latest version as well or maybe an earlier version?
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Sep 30 2019 10:12pm

buba wrote:
Sep 30 2019 6:52pm
Casainho, some users are reporting a problem with the 0.20.0 Beta 1 KT-LCD3 firmware. I have verified the problem. It seems that the hex is too large. I am using the 3.9.0 version for SDCC and it generates smaller sizes. Are you using the latest version as well or maybe an earlier version?
Done and updated the release file. Yes, I was using an older version. Now with 3.9.0 the generated code is just little bellow the 32 Kbytes.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Minatauro » Oct 01 2019 9:06am

hi just had a quick look there as was going to update my lcd3, it appears that the ktlcd3 file is a .bin instead of .hex? first time flashing lcd3 but i thought both were hex files.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by vadda » Oct 02 2019 3:08am

Minatauro wrote:
Oct 01 2019 9:06am
hi just had a quick look there as was going to update my lcd3, it appears that the ktlcd3 file is a .bin instead of .hex? first time flashing lcd3 but i thought both were hex files.
You are right
Both file must be .hex
There must have been a problem in the deployment process

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Oct 02 2019 3:11am

casainho or buba can you please post the hex file for the ktlcd3
thanks
JB
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Oct 02 2019 3:18am

jbalat wrote:
Oct 02 2019 3:11am
casainho or buba can you please post the hex file for the ktlcd3
thanks
JB
Are you sure that the bin files does not work? At least they work for me.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by jbalat » Oct 02 2019 4:00am

Are you sure that the bin files does not work? At least they work for me.
Nah the windows software STVP does not see bin files, only Hex files. Im sure they work just fine in Linux.

Normally I would copy out the main.ihx file from the src folder and rename it to .hex however that wasnt there either.

I did compile it myself but running old SDCC so not sure if its going to work..
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
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For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Oct 02 2019 4:30am

jbalat wrote:
Oct 02 2019 4:00am
Are you sure that the bin files does not work? At least they work for me.
Nah the windows software STVP does not see bin files, only Hex files. Im sure they work just fine in Linux.

Normally I would copy out the main.ihx file from the src folder and rename it to .hex however that wasnt there either.

I did compile it myself but running old SDCC so not sure if its going to work..
Done. Because I didn't follow the usual process, I end up to attach the bin file while they should be hex files.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by Minatauro » Oct 02 2019 5:30am

casainho wrote:
Oct 02 2019 4:30am
jbalat wrote:
Oct 02 2019 4:00am
Are you sure that the bin files does not work? At least they work for me.
Nah the windows software STVP does not see bin files, only Hex files. Im sure they work just fine in Linux.

Normally I would copy out the main.ihx file from the src folder and rename it to .hex however that wasnt there either.

I did compile it myself but running old SDCC so not sure if its going to work..
Done. Because I didn't follow the usual process, I end up to attach the bin file while they should be hex files.
Thanks very much, I look forward to trying out the lcd3 for the first time.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by perryscope » Oct 02 2019 7:28am

mittkonto wrote:
Sep 28 2019 1:24pm

Regarding the firmware.
Rode about 5km stock firmware yesterday and 30km in various terrain today.
All I really can say about the experience... stock is a smile for 50m, OSF is a snortlaugh for 250m. Bloody brilliant is what that is!!
I vote that the Opensource firmware code name should be "SnortLaugh"! perfect description! :lol:
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Oct 02 2019 6:43pm

The KT-LCD3 hex file is sorted out and uploaded on the official project page thanks to Casainho!

The 0.20.0 beta 1 is very, very stable! I recommend everyone to try it out and let me know if there are any bugs. Solving bugs is now a priority.

Small improvements and suggestions are possible to implement but they need to be very small and predictable so we do not introduce any bugs.

When the stable 0.20.0 is released I think there is a possibility we will be seeing some more displays supporting that version :wink: And with the new displays there will be even more functions, features and improvements!

(Sorry for being so inactive!)
Last edited by buba on Oct 02 2019 7:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by buba » Oct 02 2019 6:46pm

perryscope wrote:
Oct 02 2019 7:28am
mittkonto wrote:
Sep 28 2019 1:24pm

Regarding the firmware.
Rode about 5km stock firmware yesterday and 30km in various terrain today.
All I really can say about the experience... stock is a smile for 50m, OSF is a snortlaugh for 250m. Bloody brilliant is what that is!!
I vote that the Opensource firmware code name should be "SnortLaugh"! perfect description! :lol:
I had the exact same experience when I first tried out the OSF! :wink: SnortLaugh 0.20.0: Soon to be released in a stable version!
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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by najbyk » Oct 03 2019 1:37pm

This is my first post here. I am impressed with what you have done with TSDZ2. I have been testing version 0.20.0 for several days. It is very good. I like the eMTB mode. I travel a lot in the mountains and trails. In my opinion, the main disadvantage of this motor is overheating. I could only use 330W for long climbs (temperature around 80 degrees).
I have improved the heat dissipation from the motor in a simple way. I did the first test today. Ascent to the top with a height of almost 300 meters off the trail. Driving time over 20 minutes. I pushed the engine on the highest support mode, average power about 500W. The engine temperature reached only 70 degrees and was almost stable. Maybe it would have grown 2-3 degrees more, but I reached to the top. Before the modification I would have a temperature of 80 degrees and a power limitation halfway through.
The upgrade is quite simple and inexpensive. The motor must be removed and assembled using thermal grease and AAB Cooling Thermopad. I have photos, I can make a description, but it's too big to post in the forum. If any of you are interested in it, let me know.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by xyrus » Oct 03 2019 1:48pm

najbyk wrote:
Oct 03 2019 1:37pm
This is my first post here. I am impressed with what you have done with TSDZ2. I have been testing version 0.20.0 for several days. It is very good. I like the eMTB mode. I travel a lot in the mountains and trails. In my opinion, the main disadvantage of this motor is overheating. I could only use 330W for long climbs (temperature around 80 degrees).
I have improved the heat dissipation from the motor in a simple way. I did the first test today. Ascent to the top with a height of almost 300 meters off the trail. Driving time over 20 minutes. I pushed the engine on the highest support mode, average power about 500W. The engine temperature reached only 70 degrees and was almost stable. Maybe it would have grown 2-3 degrees more, but I reached to the top. Before the modification I would have a temperature of 80 degrees and a power limitation halfway through.
The upgrade is quite simple and inexpensive. The motor must be removed and assembled using thermal grease and AAB Cooling Thermopad. I have photos, I can make a description, but it's too big to post in the forum. If any of you are interested in it, let me know.
Please post pictures :) You can upload your images on https://imgur.com/ and post a link here. I'm in the process of buying, so every info is welcome for the future build.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by casainho » Oct 03 2019 2:38pm

najbyk wrote:
Oct 03 2019 1:37pm
The motor must be removed and assembled using thermal grease and AAB Cooling Thermopad. I have photos, I can make a description, but it's too big to post in the forum. If any of you are interested in it, let me know.
We could have a wiki page specific for that improvement.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by najbyk » Oct 03 2019 3:54pm

casainho wrote:
Oct 03 2019 2:38pm
najbyk wrote:
Oct 03 2019 1:37pm
The motor must be removed and assembled using thermal grease and AAB Cooling Thermopad. I have photos, I can make a description, but it's too big to post in the forum. If any of you are interested in it, let me know.
We could have a wiki page specific for that improvement.
I will try to make a page with improvement instructions and photos and paste the link here. If there will be positive feedback from testers, this can be combined with the TSDZ2 wiki page.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by najbyk » Oct 04 2019 3:29am

The page about improving the heat dissipation from the motor is ready: https://github.com/najbyk/TSDZ2-cooling/wiki
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Before making an improvement, it is worth doing a continuous engine power test at a constant temperature. To be able to compare the results after improvement. After that write here how much more power you can get.

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Re: TSDZ2 mid drive -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Post by vadda » Oct 04 2019 4:08am

najbyk wrote:
Oct 04 2019 3:29am
The page about improving the heat dissipation from the motor is ready: https://github.com/najbyk/TSDZ2-cooling/wiki
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Before making an improvement, it is worth doing a continuous engine power test at a constant temperature. To be able to compare the results after improvement. After that write here how much more power you can get.
:bigthumb:
Thanks, very intresting wiki, well done
For the optional part, Sugru could be used instead of liquid silicon because it can be molded like Pongo
Last edited by vadda on Oct 04 2019 5:18am, edited 1 time in total.

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