RadPowerBike RadCity Commuter

Re; twist throttle to thumb converter. I just found a need for that, so I did a search on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAD-Rover-Thumb-Throttle-Adapter-eBike-fits-Rover-City-Mini-or-Wagon/223592231970?hash=item340f22b422:m:mr9qlzAPL8izE0iecy_K7PQ:sc:USPSPriority!08701!US!-1

aroundqube said:

Re; twist throttle to thumb converter. I just found a need for that, so I did a search on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAD-Rover-Thumb-Throttle-Adapter-eBike-fits-Rover-City-Mini-or-Wagon/223592231970?hash=item340f22b422:m:mr9qlzAPL8izE0iecy_K7PQ:sc:USPSPriority!08701!US!-1

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Pretty expensive at $15, and there was another at $23. But cheaper than buying a 3D printer.

Alan B said:

It looks a bit strange but works perfectly. In fact I think I'll let him use it tomorrow and not reprint it right now.
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The rack adapter has been used on a few commutes now and has worked out well.

I printed a new rear adapter panel correctly, and added a membrane to support the shoulder of the clearance undercut for the threaded mounts which stick up a bit. The membrane is a 3D printing design trick that helps avoid using supports during printing. After printing this thin layer is drilled out of the holes.

The Topeak Trunks glides smoothly into this dovetail and latches into the front mount rung. It is a very secure system for quick attachment and removal of bicycle cargo trunk. Trunks come in several models, some with and some without folding panniers built in. It is a great commuter rig. Radpowerbikes should offer something like this, but perhaps Topeak patents prevent it. It may be one of those things that modern laws prevent good products due to overlapping interests. But with our 3D printer we can design and make one for ourselves.

I had to move one of the mounting holes in the forward adapter half a couple of mm to get it to fit and line up. A slot could be used instead of a simple hole to make this adjustable.

Went for a short spin, son brought this RadCity bike. Shure slow on the uphills, and pedaling hard makes the chain skip.

Have to look at chain tension. And a squeak in the front wheel. The rubber seal on one side of the front axle is squeaking. It was doing that some when we were tensioning the spokes. It has worsened. Sounds like a squirrel or a kitten squeaking.

Any experience with the Bolton upgrade? 17/35A KT controller and color LCD.

RadPower had chargers in stock, need a second one for son's workplace.

Bolton doesn't supply a mount for the their controller upgrade, so here's a quick 3D printed bracket design for the RadCity seat tube diameter and controller mounting tabs, designed to be tapped M5 into the plastic:

I haven't ridden the city but have ridden the radrover which has the same electronics.

I was very pleasantly surprised by how powerful the bike was, especially with it's ridiculously heavy wheels. Climbing relatively steep hills at 15+ mph was not a problem at all. It's not the fastest e-bike I've ridden but it was far from the slowest. The key for just about any e-bike motor is to maintain a high enough cadence: this typically involves shifting into one of the two lowest gears. Just about any motor will bog down at low revs whether mid drive or hub.

Acceleration at the lowest level of assist is underwhelming but at the highest, power is effortless all the way up to top speed and it's obvious the motor can push well past the 20 mph governor.

I have to assume the radcity with it's lighter wheels and slightly lower overall weight would accelerate better than the rover fat bike.

Overall, the rad is a very fun bike to ride with plenty of power at a very low price. There's no doubt the parts list consists of entry level parts, but that's to be expected at under $1500.

Thanks for your comments.

The RadCity has a DD motor whereas the RadRover has a Geared hubmotor. This likely gives a RadRover a bit more torque - even quite a bit. The gearmotor has 6x the RPM or so to work with.

I've only ridden the RadCity so can't compare to the RadRover directly. The Rover's large tires (both diameter and mass) will reduce acceleration and hill climbing, but the geared motor will improve it, so hard to say how the comparison would end up. To me the RadCity feels more than a bit weak on hills.

For a daily commuter the DD motor is nice - no gears to wear out, and regen is good for downhills. It is also dead silent.

It will be interesting to see what the Bolton upgrade does for it. It should improve the acceleration and hill climbing speed to be about equal to the DIY 9C Canyon Express, at least the peak power will be closer to the same.

Re: Bolton's controller and LCD display kit. I was riding that combo for a year when he started talking about coming out with one. The biggest difference between my set up and his is that his has been set up so it's plug and play. It's a direct plug in allowing you to remove the Rad components and plug his in. Point being, you are paying a premium for the plug-n-play feature. The components are available at much less cost from several sources, including Amazon, if you don't mind changing/matching the wiring ends as required. A "kit", that includes a PAS sensor and brake handles, as well as the KT display and controller (with specs of your choice) is not a bad way to go either, as that will come with matching ends. All you would have to do is match the battery and motor connectors.

For more info, look into the attributes you will have control over in the online owners manuals you can pull up in .pdf form. Unlike the RAD display/controller, nothing is locked down. There's also open source software available for it if you are so inclined. Open source is way beyond me, so I manage (quite well) with just that available with the stock KC display. No more soft start, and it responds well for those willing to explore a bit with all of the different attributes.

The other thing is, with a kit like this installed, you have the ground work laid for about any kind of power you would like to install later on. I've had a 1500w direct drive on mine, and now the MAC 12t (torque monster). Both do well on the stock battery, but you do need to be mindful the battery is wired up internally with 14ga wire. That limits you to about 20a constant, but will survive short burst of much higher! -Al

Good to hear about your experiences with it. How much different was the 1500 DD you tried compared to the stock motor with 1500W in each? Do you know if there is a temperature sensor in the motor??

If it was mine I'd probably hack away, but I'm trying to keep it fairly clean and close to stock for my son. He needs a simple reliable commuter. We can hack on his other bike. The way the RadCity came it was too frustrating for him on some of the hills. One hill near the house drops down to 11 mph. I'm hoping it will hold 15-18 or so, not expecting high speed but keeping close to 20 on moderate hills would be nice.

He may end up having a range problem, hopefully not. I'm trying to encourage him to pedal a bit more and spread out the battery so he has more margin.

The second charger came in so he'll have one here and one to carry, and I just checked the measurements on the first draft controller mount - it fits the controller and the RadCity seat tube and the M5 capscrews. I'm printing a second bracket now. Still need to tap the plastic to take the threads on the one half. The M5 clearance holes are a good fit.

We have to be careful on chargers because we have both 48V and 52V chargers with coaxial connectors. I wish Bolton used some other connector. Perhaps we'll change the connector on the one 52V battery we have. The BMS should protect against that mistake, but I'd just as soon not test it.

I'm hoping we can meet his commute needs without changing the motor or battery. The controller/display are not too costly, especially if we sell the stock parts which I have heard is possible. Speed is ok, hill climbing is marginal, range is marginal at the moment. Fixing the hill climbing may make the range worse, unfortunately.

Hopefully there's plenty of room for the larger controller, I made the bracket offset, thinner on the tube side so it shouldn't be much further from the seat tube and we won't have to drill and install rivnuts in the frame as they suggested in the install video.

I have a nearly new Lyen 150V 18 FET controller sitting here on the shelf. I suppose we could series up a second RadCity 48V battery (or some Lipo) and really light things up, but that's not what this tool is for.

Alan B said:

Went for a short spin, son brought this RadCity bike. Shure slow on the uphills, and pedaling hard makes the chain skip.

Have to look at chain tension. And a squeak in the front wheel. The rubber seal on one side of the front axle is squeaking. It was doing that some when we were tensioning the spokes. It has worsened. Sounds like a squirrel or a kitten squeaking.

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Is this a new or newish bike? Chain skip is not a function of pedaling hard. It's a sign either of a badly worn chain and/or cassette or a derailleur out of adjustment (or bent hanger). Take it to a shop and see if the derailleur's out of adjustment. If so, cost is likely to be anywhere from 0 to $20 at most. Or, check out some vids online and DIY.

You can eyeball the derailleur hanger alignment.

You mentioned DD vs hub in another post. At this price point, I doubt it makes much difference. Remember, all motors are designed/optimized to produce MOST power at a relatively high cadence, typically around 90 rpm. I would bet as I sad before that your problems with climbing are due to pedaling in too high a gear, and therefore at too low of a cadence. Try again in the lowest gear possible where you can spin at around 90 rpm or close to it.

Questions:
1. what do you weigh, if you don't mind? I weighed 170-ish at the time of my test ride.
2. what gear are you climbing in? I used the two lowest gears at a relatively high rpm and climbed at 15+ mph with ease.

It seems like you are not especially familiar with bicycle maintenance. I recommend taking a class where available with your local bike shop. REI offers classes as well for low or no cost.

I'll try to get a test ride on the radcity sooner rather than later and report back with my own findings.

Alan B said:

AHicks said:

After building a couple of "kit" bikes, I bought an '18 Rad City. I wasn't very impressed with the available power either. After riding it for a bit, I attributed much of that to what I call a "soft start" built into the controller.
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Yes it is fairly soft starting. I don't worry about that as much as peak torque. But it would be good to reduce the delay a little.

I wonder what one could do with a controller swap and the existing motor. The goal here is to commute. 25 mph on level and 20 mph on gradients up to perhaps 7%.

Part of commuting is very high reliability. Gearmotors are fine but they don't have the same level of reliability as DD hubs.

If you really want to change the performance put dual motors on. The Bonanza has DD rear and Geared front motors. Amazing performance.

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A slower start is essential for safety. I've ridden e-bikes which offer full power seemingly as soon as you pedal. Not good. Very bad on slippery/wet roads or on dirt. Even riding on a perfectly smooth paved road, the jolt of full power with the first quarter or eighth of a pedal stroke is unnverving, and feels very unnatural, very un-bike like on top of that.

I've noticed the gradual ramp up of power on the radrover also, and it's a great design element. I just assumed it was due to the weight of the wheels, but it's apparently an intentional design. It was reminiscent of riding a bike with a torque sensor rather than a cadence sensor. For such an inexpensive bike, the rad rides surprisingly well.

20 mph at 7% grade is asking for a lot, especially if you are relying on throttle only. I've ridden true class 3 bikes that top out at nearly 30 mph and even at max assist, they're not going to get you to, and keep you at 20 mph at a 7% grade on throttle only.

You're asking far too much of the radpower bikes. A class 3 bike won't give you the power you are looking for, so why do you expect even more performance from an inexpensive class 2 bike like the rad? It's like buying a Toyota Corolla yet expecting the performance of a corvette. It aint gonna happen.

A slower start is essential for safety. I've ridden e-bikes which offer full power seemingly as soon as you pedal. Not good. Very bad on slippery/wet roads or on dirt. Even riding on a perfectly smooth paved road, the jolt of full power with the first quarter or eighth of a pedal stroke is unnverving, and feels very unnatural, very un-bike like on top of that.

I've noticed the gradual ramp up of power on the radrover also, and it's a great design element. I just assumed it was due to the weight of the wheels, but it's apparently an intentional design. It was reminiscent of riding a bike with a torque sensor rather than a cadence sensor. For such an inexpensive bike, the rad rides surprisingly well.

20 mph at 7% grade is asking for a lot, especially if you are relying on throttle only. I've ridden true class 3 bikes that top out at nearly 30 mph and even at max assist, they're not going to get you to, and keep you at 20 mph at a 7% grade on throttle only.

You're asking far too much of the radpower bikes. A class 3 bike won't give you the power you are looking for, so why do you expect even more performance from an inexpensive class 2 bike like the rad? It's like buying a Toyota Corolla yet expecting the performance of a corvette. It aint gonna happen.

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Slow start essential for safety? A great design element? Not a desirable attribute at all to my way of thinking. I guess it depends on your idea of safety. When I'm crossing a busy road for instance, when I tell the bike to go, I want it to go NOW. Waiting for ANY type of delay is dangerous to my way of thinking. You want a "soft" start, set it to PAS 1 and start pedaling, or just give it the amount of throttle you want/need.

Currently riding one of the more powerful, gear driven, motors available, (MAC 12t) and there is NO tendency for wheel spin (none) even when full throttle is supplied right from the start. Not on wet pavement, not on grass, nothing. If a bike is accelerating too fast for you, try a lower PAS level maybe. Your car is likely pretty peppy if you take off from a light with your foot on the mat, no? I agree most don't care for that feeling, so they learn to apply throttle gradually. I'm not sure why the same lesson couldn't be applied when riding an ebike.

"It's like buying a Toyota Corolla yet expecting the performance of a corvette. It aint gonna happen." Never say never. For instance, if somebody wanted to, they could install a Corvette engine in their Corolla. When it comes to bikes, that's actually much easier and less expensive than most would believe....

For me, the beauty of a RAD is they are inexpensive, and built using standardized parts. This makes it pretty easy to modify any attribute on them, using over the counter parts, to meet your preferences pretty economically. If you like it as received, great. I'm happy for you. If there's something you don't like, there's little about them that can't be changed relatively inexpensively.

Alan B said:

Good to hear about your experiences with it. How much different was the 1500 DD you tried compared to the stock motor with 1500W in each? Do you know if there is a temperature sensor in the motor??

If it was mine I'd probably hack away, but I'm trying to keep it fairly clean and close to stock for my son. He needs a simple reliable commuter. We can hack on his other bike. The way the RadCity came it was too frustrating for him on some of the hills. One hill near the house drops down to 11 mph. I'm hoping it will hold 15-18 or so, not expecting high speed but keeping close to 20 on moderate hills would be nice.

He may end up having a range problem, hopefully not. I'm trying to encourage him to pedal a bit more and spread out the battery so he has more margin.

The second charger came in so he'll have one here and one to carry, and I just checked the measurements on the first draft controller mount - it fits the controller and the RadCity seat tube and the M5 capscrews. I'm printing a second bracket now. Still need to tap the plastic to take the threads on the one half. The M5 clearance holes are a good fit.

We have to be careful on chargers because we have both 48V and 52V chargers with coaxial connectors. I wish Bolton used some other connector. Perhaps we'll change the connector on the one 52V battery we have. The BMS should protect against that mistake, but I'd just as soon not test it.

I'm hoping we can meet his commute needs without changing the motor or battery. The controller/display are not too costly, especially if we sell the stock parts which I have heard is possible. Speed is ok, hill climbing is marginal, range is marginal at the moment. Fixing the hill climbing may make the range worse, unfortunately.

Hopefully there's plenty of room for the larger controller, I made the bracket offset, thinner on the tube side so it shouldn't be much further from the seat tube and we won't have to drill and install rivnuts in the frame as they suggested in the install video.

I have a nearly new Lyen 150V 18 FET controller sitting here on the shelf. I suppose we could series up a second RadCity 48V battery (or some Lipo) and really light things up, but that's not what this tool is for.

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The 1500w DD has noticeably more power than the stock motor. When set up with unrestricted power, it will accelerate to well over 35mph. I did that a couple of times while messing with it after first installing it. I believe it would have gone faster if I had the room to allow it.

My issue with the 1500w was that I ride at slower speeds. 15mph is fast for me. When I tried bigger/longer hills, the 1500 was not working at it's design optimum (speeds in excess of 20 mph) and it did struggle badly. That was the incentive for me to go with a gear drive - to give me more power at the lower speeds I'm generally riding at. Noteworthy is the fact my application is way different from that of a commuter.

With any of the workmanship displayed in the design and build of your rear rack adapter, the conversion to the new controller and new motor if you go that route, will be very difficult for the untrained eye to detect. I didn't have any trouble with the clearance between the fender and seat post. It's close though! I used a pair of tie wraps top and bottom, and double sided tape between the controller and frame. It has never moved at all. I did have a rattle that was traced to the rear fender hitting the controller. A piece of Velcro felt cured that though.

If you go with a 1500w, some companies offer different winds. I would seek one out with a slower wind to take advantage of the higher torque available at lower speeds.

I can't help you with battery range, as I have no experience at the speeds your son is working with. I can say that at the lower speeds I ran, there was no trouble making 25 miles.

Bike is new (as mentioned earlier). No chance of wear being the issue. The derailleur crash bar was slightly bent but no sign of impact when the bike was pulled from the box, I haven't looked at the derailleur closely but noticed the same thing the one time I rode it, pedaling hard causes chain skip. Testing on the bike stand works fine, though by eye the chainline looks slightly off. I've had other things to deal with like very loose front spokes and a nail picked up in the rear tire, this wasn't on the list.

Remember, we are comparing this to an old steel mountain bike with a DIY motor kit on it, so these expectations aren't formed in a vacuum. Other than the one test I haven't been doing the riding, my son has, and he is a mostly throttle guy. He's been commuting on and off for years, when he has a job, but he doesn't like to pedal or shift much. He's a commuter, not a bike enthusiast. So he didn't notice the skipping till a few days ago. And his weight is about 150 lbs. His goal is to get to work. He has 16 miles to go and it is taking a little over an hour.

When I say it slows to 11 mph I mean without pedaling, so the gear is not important. On this same hill the other bike doesn't slow as much. I don't know what the gradient is, I haven't looked it up. 20 mph on 7% is a goal, not a requirement, but 11 mph is getting pretty slow. A commuter doesn't want to break a sweat, they need to get to work ready to go, not needing a shower and exhausted. So you can pedal hard for a minute or two, or pedal gently for a long time. If the weather is hot then even less pedaling is required to avoid getting too sweaty for work.

We're not looking for high speeds. 20-25 is fine. Just looking for consistent speed. We don't want to drop below about 15 on modest hills. You'd be pretty frustrated with your car if it dropped to half the speed limit on hills. So the stock motor is about the right speed. It seems that the main bottleneck is the controller, it is limiting the torque on hills. If the efficiency of the motor and controller are taken into account more power can be applied and still be within the rules.

Class 2 and 3 bikes are allowed the same power, so at 20 mph they don't necessarily have different performance. The rules don't say whether the power is input or output or peak or average. RadPowerBike has taken the most conservative interpretation of this, and they have programmed delays into the controller and limited the input and peak power. That's their design decision. It is perhaps good for riders that are new to ebikes which is their target market. From what I've seen here on ES slow start is universally not liked by people with experience. It would be nice if the delay could be selected. This delay both increases and decreases safety depending on the scenario. It is like training wheels, once you get used to an ebike the delay is not wanted or needed, in my experience. A beginner feature.

I see now you said when pedaling. Yes, PAS may need more ramp than throttle. Perhaps that's the bug. They use the same ramp. Should be different, and independently selectable. I'm used to more sophisticated controls.

Range is on the edge for his commute. He has been using the old bike on the last couple of commutes and getting close to BMS shutoff. The same with the RadCity. 16 miles of pretty modest hills. One day he called me for help, he was one hill shy of making it home. I'm encouraging him to pedal more. A little reserve battery pack would be nice. There are bottle mounts under the downtube...

In summary, the new RadCity 2019 is a solid ebike at the price point. It has a great rack, decent fenders, a good kickstand. The brakes are adequate, the gearing is okay (aside from the skipping that needs to be fixed). The front spokes were a disaster tension wise out of the box - rattling loose. The 12 gauge spokes are a poor design choice, 14 or 13 would have been better (12 requires too much tension for a bicycle wheel). The 2 amp charger is too slow, if you work a 4 hour shift the battery will not be fully recharged for the return trip. The PAS delay is OK but the throttle delay is excessive. The connectors and cabling are good.

Where can I get the battery connector? I'd like to setup something with another battery and not hack up the existing cable. So a stub cable with the battery side connector would be used to make an adapter to bring in power from another small range extender battery.

I would just change it to the commonly available XT90, or whatever your favorite is, and not worry about it.

Same story on the chain line. Take a minute to set it and forget it. There's a small but very effective adjuster right where the cable meets the derailleur

You're looking for a bike that you can ride at 20 to 25 mph, so you buy a class2 bike that tops out at 20 mph, then complain that the bike is too slow.

Yeah, the bike is not the problem here. smh.

formula101 said:

You're looking for a bike that you can ride at 20 to 25 mph, so you buy a class2 bike that tops out at 20 mph, then complain that the bike is too slow.

Yeah, the bike is not the problem here. smh.

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You're inexperience is hanging out sir.

It tops out at 20 because it's limited electronically (that's how it got the Class II rating). The Bolton kit doesn't know Class II from a hole in the wall. It's just fine with removing that restriction, or any others RAD has in place.

AHicks said:

formula101 said:

You're looking for a bike that you can ride at 20 to 25 mph, so you buy a class2 bike that tops out at 20 mph, then complain that the bike is too slow.

Yeah, the bike is not the problem here. smh.

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You're inexperience is hanging out sir.

It tops out at 20 because it's limited electronically (that's how it got the Class II rating). The Bolton kit doesn't know Class II from a hole in the wall. It's just fine with removing that restriction, or any others RAD has in place.

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The rad isn't really capable of anything beyond 24 mph even with a kit.

You're better off buying a class 3 instead such as a juiced bikes. They start at $1800 vs $1500 and have several significant upgrades:

-hydraulic brakes

-28 mph top speed (more like 30-32 mph real world)

-52 volt battery standard

-3 or 4 frame sizes

-3 colors (if that's your thing)

-torque sensor

-9 vs 7 speed drivetrain

-stock 52 tooth chainring

-ergo grips vs. undersized fake leather grips

-standard 1000 lumens headlight

-cadence sensor built in

The rad should never be on anyone's list for a fast bike.

formula101 said:

You're looking for a bike that you can ride at 20 to 25 mph, so you buy a class2 bike that tops out at 20 mph, then complain that the bike is too slow.

Yeah, the bike is not the problem here. smh.

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Personal attacks are against ES rules. Let's keep this civil.

The bike is not for me. I have six other ebikes, and I no longer commute. These are "goals". Not absolute requirements. I don't believe I've ever said that 20 on the flat was inadequate for this. Bikes are allowed 28 now, so 20-25 is not breaking the speed limit.

We're not looking for a fast ebike, but a solid commuter.

If it would do near 20 mph up a moderate hill my son would not complain (not as much anyway). When it bogs down to 11, he's not too thrilled. This bike goes 24 on the level just fine. The problem is the class rules are pushing makers to build defective products in terms of actual utility. A few years ago we had 1000 watt rules and no classes. The class rules are not built to suit transportation needs.

He just wants to get to work, not go out for a joy ride around town. This is transportation, not a hobbycycle.

If we want ebikes to be the success they should be, they need to meet transportation needs, not just be another hobby purchase that ends up in the trash pile like most bicycles do.

This thread is about our experience with the RadCity, these are the real results of using it for transportation (which is what it is advertised for). For people who don't want to pedal hard and don't want to have to shift there isn't really a better ebike (others are pretty much equivalent). Remember the old steel mountain bike with a DIY motor kit was doing a bit better. My son has gone back to riding his old bike. I guess we should toss this RadCity in the trash if he's not going to ride it. It takes him 10 minutes longer to get to work because it goes so slowly on the hills, and the traffic is more dangerous due to the larger speed differential and more cars going by.

You are right about one thing, the bike is not the problem. The rules are the problem. They create more dangerous riding conditions by artificially slowing down ebikes. If they're allowed to go 20 or 28, then they should be able to do so, regardless of gradient or rider weight.

In this (my) thread let's focus on the RadCity and what we can do to improve it for commuting, which after all is it's intended purpose, according to RadPowerBikes marketing.

Alan B said:

formula101 said:

You're looking for a bike that you can ride at 20 to 25 mph, so you buy a class2 bike that tops out at 20 mph, then complain that the bike is too slow.

Yeah, the bike is not the problem here. smh.

Click to expand...

Personal attacks are against ES rules. Let's keep this civil.

The bike is not for me. I have six other ebikes, and I no longer commute. These are "goals". Not absolute requirements. I don't believe I've ever said that 20 on the flat was inadequate for this. Bikes are allowed 28 now, so 20-25 is not breaking the speed limit.

We're not looking for a fast ebike, but a solid commuter.

If it would do near 20 mph up a moderate hill my son would not complain (not as much anyway). When it bogs down to 11, he's not too thrilled. This bike goes 24 on the level just fine. The problem is the class rules are pushing makers to build defective products in terms of actual utility. A few years ago we had 1000 watt rules and no classes. The class rules are not built to suit transportation needs.

He just wants to get to work, not go out for a joy ride around town. This is transportation, not a hobbycycle.

If we want ebikes to be the success they should be, they need to meet transportation needs, not just be another hobby purchase that ends up in the trash pile like most bicycles do.

This thread is about our experience with the RadCity, these are the real results of using it for transportation (which is what it is advertised for). For people who don't want to pedal hard and don't want to have to shift there isn't really a better ebike (others are pretty much equivalent). Remember the old steel mountain bike with a DIY motor kit was doing a bit better. My son has gone back to riding his old bike. I guess we should toss this RadCity in the trash if he's not going to ride it. It takes him 10 minutes longer to get to work because it goes so slowly on the hills, and the traffic is more dangerous when the speed differential increases and more cars go by.

You are right about one thing, the bike is not the problem. The rules are the problem. They create more dangerous riding conditions by artificially slowing down ebikes. If they're allowed to go 20 or 28, then they should be able to do so, regardless of gradient or rider weight.

In this (my) thread let's focus on the RadCity and what we can do to improve it for commuting, which after all is it's intended purpose, according to RadPowerBikes marketing.

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Posting accurate information and facts are "personal attacks" according to your "definition." SMH x2.

State laws vary with regards to bike max speed. Some states don't have a limit, it's 20 mph in others. Check with local laws.

The facts are this: THE RAD CAN'T GET TO 20 MPH ON THROTTLE ONLY UPHILL. You can define this as a "personal attack" but those are simply facts.

Radpower bikes clearly states a max of 20 mph. They DO NOT anywhere guarantee 20 mph on throttle only on 7 percent or higher grades. Show me a link to that claim in their marketing.

If you want a fast bike, buy a fast bike. The rad is not a fast bike.

The RadCity is a bike. Whether it is fast or not depends on the hardware that is on it. It can easily be changed.

20 mph uphill is not fast.

Alan B said:

The RadCity is a bike. Whether it is fast or not depends on the hardware that is on it. It can easily be changed.

20 mph uphill is not fast.

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20 mph uphill on a 7 percent grade is EXTREMELY fast for a bicycle. I typically manage 7 to 10 mph on a regular bicycle (no motor). 3x that speed is amazing.

Clearly, bicycle speeds are insufficient for your son. Get him a car or a motorcycle. The rad ain't cuttin' it. Common sense FTW.