new eZip motor

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

I have not been riding my e bike lately as I have no rear brake as I removed the rotar as it was too large in diameter for the axle to fit all the way in to the drop outs. When I changed the rear tire and tube a month ago the wheel fell off upon take off but not all the way off as I had the torque arm on.

I got help putting it back on by a nice lady security guard there and made it home. A few days after I removed the rotar so that the axle would fit all the way in the drop out.

Today I walked to Wall=Mart a few hours ago and got a small tape measure that has a key chain attached. I refused to buy a standard 25 foot tape measure as I have about three in storage with my tools so spent less than 2 bucks for a small 10 foot tape measure,

The rotar is 6 - 5/8 inches which converts to 68.275 mm. I looked up the different sizes and see

Answer: Mountain bikers have a dizzying array of options to choose from, including three wheel sizes and up to five diameters of disc brake rotors. SRAM's HS1 disc brake rotors are available in five diameters: 140,160,170,180, and 200mm.Apr 16, 2013.

Basically 8.25 millimeters is slightly more than 3/8 of an inch or 0.3257874.

That is not a lot of difference but am thinking maybe enough to work as long as the 160 mm rotar is exactly 160 mm or slightly less. They do not make a 150 mm and a 140 mm would most likely be too small. I think that 1/3 of an inch will be enough from what I saw when I looked at the drop outs.

I will be calling around the local bike shops and am hoping I can find one in stock. The rear wheel is 26" and the bike came with 27.5" wheels but e bikeling don't make a hub motor that size. I got lucky and rode the bike about 1,000 miles the way it was but I had my friend Doug build the bike in NY and he is a bike expert.

Either way with a hub motor the axle needs to be all the way in the drop outs. I will need a new muffler clamp I can get at Auto Zone for the torque arm. Thanks.

LC out.

Curtis - Hub motors do not come in wheel sizes, they are HUBS. Rims come in wheel sizes, and spokes are made to fit between rim and hub. Ebikeling simply does not offer the service to build a motor into a 27.5" wheel.

Take apart existing wheel, get spokes made to order to fit rim to motor, build a new wheel.

Minimal cost, and shipping a bare motor is less than shipping a motor built into a wheel. Spoke set should be around $30-$50, or less, to your door.

Building the wheel is a somewhat tedious and time-consuming task, hour or two, but would give you a new skill, teach some patience, and solve your current problem.

AngryBob said:

Building the wheel is a somewhat tedious and time-consuming task, hour or two, but would give you a new skill, teach some patience, and solve your current problem.

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Maybe I'm missing something, but I see no need to rebuild the wheel. The problem is that his disc rotor interferes with his calipers. The problem is rotor size, not wheel size. My best guess is that the bike may require a 140 mm disc but he has a 160 mm fitted. It is hard to say for sure without looking at the bike. I think a 140 mm rear disc would be fine since the rear brake does significantly less braking than the front brake and I don't think he rides at high speeds. That said, there could be some other issue that is causing the rotor interference.

If he wants to keep the 160mm disc, then he could perhaps use an adapter such as one of these. I changed my rear to 180mm in order to get better clearance between the caliper and the hub motor.
https://www.amazon.com/Juscycling-Brake-Caliper-Mount-Adapter/dp/B07CB49ZRN/ref=pd_sbs_200_t_1/138-0946693-0582830?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07CB49ZRN&pd_rd_r=b429dcf2-e07c-4008-899e-24fee0a868f3&pd_rd_w=RaZQI&pd_rd_wg=CPpLw&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=G8FJWDN97XE4YC3BG3YN&refRID=G8FJWDN97XE4YC3BG3YN

Though frankly, I'd feel better if he had someone with a fair bit of expertise look at what is going on. I feel like he may be missing something here since having a 140mm disc on the back seems odd.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I see no need to rebuild the wheel. The problem is that his disc rotor interferes with his calipers. The problem is rotor size, not wheel size.

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That is correct. I just called a bike shop that has 160 mm rotors in stock for 20 bucks. I just need to bring my 168.25 mm rotor to compare sizes to make sure.

Building the wheel is a somewhat tedious and time-consuming task, hour or two, but would give you a new skill, teach some patience, and solve your current problem.

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However Angry bob has a point but just not for this hub motor as the rim is still perfect and straight. However I can't say the same thing for the 26' - 1,000 watt direct drive front hub motor I have in storage in NY. The wheel kit I got from Sunder back when I started this post about 5 years ago. I hit a bad section of road about 4 years back and broke a spoke and replaced it but the rim has a high spot and is very noticeable when riding it.

I need to take the wheel to a shop and see if it is possible to fix and if not I will definatlly need to learn that new skill. I have 6 e bikes total but only one here in Ohio. My other bikes are in a storage unit in upstate NY over 500 miles away. I also have a 20' direct drive hub motor and that is also making a noise and needs to be checked.

I have several 26" bikes in storage as well as 20" BMX style bikes. I have four hub motors total. The one here that needs a slightly smaller rotor and in storage is a second 500 watt 700c - e bikling motor in perfect condition. A 20' - 800 watt front direct drive and the 1,000 watt 26" direct drive that may need a whole new rim. Thanks for posting and good to hear from all of you. Also welcome to my post Angry Bob.

LC out.

latecurtis said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but I see no need to rebuild the wheel. The problem is that his disc rotor interferes with his calipers. The problem is rotor size, not wheel size.

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That is correct. I just called a bike shop that has 160 mm rotors in stock for 20 bucks. I just need to bring my 168.25 mm rotor to compare sizes to make sure.

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Look closely at your rotor and you may see a size stamped or etched on it. Check both sides.

Nothing but is 168.25 mm. If I get a 160 mm It should work. I located one at a bike shop for 20 bucks. I just need to go there tomorrow and pick it up.

Thanks.


LC out.

latecurtis said:

Nothing but is 168.25 mm. If I get a 160 mm It should work. I located one at a bike shop for 20 bucks. I just need to go there tomorrow and pick it up.

Thanks.


LC out.

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I just measured one of my old Shimano 160 mm discs and it is very close to exactly 160 mm. So there's something very odd about that rotor you have.

You might want to double-check your measurement and make sure it isn't 6 5/16" as opposed to 6 5/8". Better yet, use a ruler with metric measurements.

"Though frankly, I'd feel better if he had someone with a fair bit of expertise look at what is going on. I feel like he may be missing something here" .

Having followed this thread from day one, the above is the understatement of the millenium.

Curtis - take the ENTIRE BIKE to the bike shop, have them look at it, and determine exactly what you need to solve your problem. At least take multiple pictures.

This entire thread has been an unending saga of you determining what you "need", wasting your very limited funds on the wrong parts, than spending much time and effort kluging something together that is barely functional. When, almost every time, all that effort and wasted cash would have been saved, simply by verifying that the desired part is in fact, the correct part.

Now, you have managed to achieve limited function, with 2 x 4's and gigantic spoke mounted gears and funky controllers, but you would have saved a lot of money, and a lot of work, and had a dependable, workable transport machine much easier if you had just taken the time to have someone who knows what they are doing look at your current crazy-ass idea.

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

This entire thread has been an unending saga of you determining what you "need", wasting your very limited funds on the wrong parts, than spending much time and effort kluging something together that is barely functional. When, almost every time, all that effort and wasted cash would have been saved, simply by verifying that the desired part is in fact, the correct part.

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Yes and I miss the hell out of it also. Good news is I might have a ride back to NY to get some or all of my stuff in storage this week end. I am holding off on the 20 buck rotor as will need about 200 for gas unfortunately to haul my stuff here.

I probably have a smaller rotor sitting in storage. I have the Currie and Easy street to ride anyway and both are in good running condition. I will be working on one or two of my 20" e bikes and probably next month getting the rim fixed or replaced that has the 1,000 watt direct drive. I will keep you all posted as to when I will have my e bike workshop up and running again. Thanks.

LC out.

The e bike workshop and my crazy videos were fun as hell. I would not go back and change much. I would definitely NOT have wasted so much money on SLAs. That is one thing I would change. Jumping straight to 18650 packs would have saved a lot of weight and time mounting such heavy batteries to the frame.

In fact I put the original Currie rack on the back of the Haro V3 I got in storage. This time though I will do it a little different by choosing a 1,800 watt brush less motor a 60V - 2,500W to 3,000W brushless controller and a large home built 16S Lion pack.
40 mph respectively.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1800W-48V-Brushless-Electric-Motor-w-Base-Unite-T8F-Sprocket-9T-GoKart-Tricycle/283542411255?hash=item420471d7f7:g:cE4AAOSwjxddEz~u

Notice the RPM rating. It is only 3,300. Most of the silver 1,800 watt motors are 4,500 RPM. Thanks to this forum I learned gearing.
The importance of it. I also learned that those spoke kits are not that good because they warp the wheel.

The best cheap alternative to spending 120 bucks for a new Currie rear wheel like I did when I rebuilt the Currie a couple years ago is a sprocket that bolts to where a disk brake rotor goes. You can still run disk on the front and a decent pair of U or V brakes for the back.

Also I ran the cheap #25 chain for about two years and raced it and had no problems at all until I was stupid enough to remove it and try to put the 1,000 watt Unite motor on a 20" kids bike and broke the motor. Yes that was a really big F up. I would change that for sure.

Hair brain ideas though is what I live for. It tends to make my day interesting. I may have wasted a bit of money but am a smarter builder for have learned a thing or two. Also I give good advice and when asked about any e bike I tell people that a hub motor kit is the best option. I mention e bikeling as did business with them twice and overall satisfied with their product for the money.

I do not promote crazy chain drive designs. Especially to folk who have never owned an e bike and are interested in acquiring one. You guys taught me that. I explain the difference and experiment as it makes me happy. Chain drive electric bikes however can work and for those folk who hooked up chainsaw motors and other gas motors and built mini bikes they could teach me a thing or two so do speak freely about all motor drive options. Thanks.

LC out.

ok i got it.

Solar power for heat is problematic at best!

You would get more heat letting Sun shine in through window than putting solar panel there. Of course you want the extra heat during the night ... when there is no Sunlight = no solar power.

Might cost you $1500 ( 10 x 100w 2 x 4' solar panels) to create 1 kW ... plus maybe $300 per kWh storage, for battery.

I just installed 2 x 100w solar panels in greenhouse to power fans and irrigation pump (during day), with 100Ah SLA for LED lighting.
Solar heating is being utilized!, but not wastefully through electric storage, 250gal rain storage tank is painted black to store Sun's heat and raised beds are cement blocks which absorb Sun's heat during day and release at night.
See - Raised Bed Gardening - Cement Blocks > Greenhouse

That is awesome. I googled how long a 100 Ah SLA will power a 300 watt heater and came up with only 3 hours.

As the Hub Motor turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. E bike batteries.

Hey LC,

Sorry I haven't been posting. Life's been a bit tough for me lately. First time I touched my electric motorcycle in about 6 months was only 2 nights ago.

1. For heat, have you considered something like this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Electric-Battery-Heating-USB-Sleeveless-Vest-Winter-Heated-Outdoor-Jacket/401889700665?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60259%26meid%3Dea189653e4ab47f184cd57c8c88cfca2%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dco%26sd%3D173667387014%26itm%3D401889700665%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851



Match it with some heated pants as well. There are also heated socks/gloves, etc. and electric blankets. They're all dirt cheap to run, like cents per day.

I put solar on my roof - but it's my house, I don't need to worry about where I am going to put them or how I will carry them with me. Cost me $9k AUD but it was a premium solution - Cheapest quote I got was $6.2k with Chinese panels and inverter, I put in Korean (LG) panels, Israeli optimisers and inverters (Solar Edge).

I got 19 panels, 6.5kw potential with 15% shading from nearby trees

To give you an idea, this is what a typical mostly sunny day looks like - the dips are shadows from trees. This is WITH optimisers


And remember we are in mid Spring here. Here's what the past few weeks look like:



The typical heater uses 2kw. So if you don't store it with batteries, when could you use the heater? Between 8am and 4pm. So you want to store it?

12v @ 100Ah = 1200wh. Halve that for SLA, or 600wh. So if you want to run your heater for 3 hours, you need 6000wh (2000w x 3h), or 10 x 100Ah 12v SLA batteries. This is getting beyond my price range, let alone yours.

So, you need 12kwh generated per day, to store 6kwh, so you can use your heater for about 3 hours per day. Given that I only produced 15kwh in winter - and my winter is much longer and warmer than yours, I suspect my $9k system would not be big enough to do what you want.

Sorry to shoot you down mate, but it's just not possible.

On another note, this is my electric motorcycle project:



A couple nights ago, I put all the big batteries (silver, back right) into a box. The box is one I built from Marine ply and wrapped in automotive vinyl. The same stuff I am wrapping my bike with. The box contains everything to manage the batteries - BMS )Small blue boxes in front of the battery), Chargers - Black boxes under the BMS - but I will be stripping them down to the circuit board to save space.

The next step is the tougher bit. I need to get the wheel mounted securely in a spare swing arm. I need to cut it, machine a solid block of high tensile steel, then bolt it back together with high tensile steel. This is effectively a torque plate, as I am putting insanity levels of torque from standstill through this bike. I estimate it will perform like a 500-600cc bike, in a 250cc frame.

From there, it's mostly programming the controller to have the behaviour I want, and to pass safety certification, I need a speedo that works (Current speedo draws from gearbox which won't exist, so I need to figure something out).

The below is the empty fuel tank I had someone wrapped to give you an idea of what colour I am doing the bike (I can do simple bits, but a tank of that odd shape, I paid a pro to do). Trying to find a metal worker that can make it into a glovebox, as I obviously won't be needing fuel any more. You can see the battery box in the background (left, by the couch)

Not sure if ordering new batteries this month. I still have to pay internet and phone and get a PO. box. I am about to fix my multi meter and separate my packs so I can test them all to make sure none of them are bad. Thanks.

LC out.

Get an electric blanket. Safe and warm! PM an address and I’ll send one, IF you’ll use it. But it’s going to the local St Vincent DePaul center if you wouldn’t make use of it.

Local St Vinnie's is kinda nice, got a trio of sub 5' skinny girls working.
Aged 75, 55 and 35 ... not related!
They always have clothes, blankets, furniture, housewares, food distribution etc. but have a pitiful poor selection of guy junk. Either it gets sold to the 1st guy or they refuse to accept the "good stuff".

City did a Community Revitalization removing street stop lights, installing roundabouts and planting flowers and other plants.
Well, St. Vinnie got short changed! Got grasses and weed looking crap in front, so I transplanted them some bunches of Marigolds and drop them off bunches of flowers, for them to arrange, some Mondays. Gotta keep them happy and in business. Salvation Army store shut down, running out of browsing spots, for when I get bored!

Salvation Army store used to be great! Big rambling store on city outskirts, had a basement full of good "junk". But then they moved uptown and became "The Salvation Army Boutique", catering to the upscale needy, with a tragic shortage of junk, probably deserved to go out of business!!!

Anyhow, I help Vinnies out a bit, including extra Veggies from garden, info on tech items, fixed their computer and printer a couple times, be tragic if they went out of business ... really makes my day to see 3 generations of twiggy little girls all light up over a handful of flowers.

Of course, taking a lesson from my passel of pre-teen grandnieces, a little treat brightens everyone's day, started passing out treats, mini wrapped candy, Hershey's or Atomic Fireball etc. to cashiers at stores or tellers at bank. Banks tellers at local credit union sometimes fight over serving me and pout when I don't choose them, enlivens everyone's day, best <$1 per week I can imagine spending!

latecurtis said:

I made it back ok but definitely notice sluggishness in the Samsung packs maybe even more than the SONA packs. I pedal assisted up the small hills. Not a lot of steep hills here in Central Ohio. I will need to order a new battery pack this month if I don't make the trip to NY. I would like to start ordering one new pack each month until I get enough batteries to go 100 miles.

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If you run all the packs in parallel, they should give you more total mileage and less sluggishness. I'm pretty sure this has been said before.

He never listened to the saying that you have one mouth and two ears ... which means you should listen twice as much as you talk.

DrkAngel said:

He never listened to the saying that you have one mouth and two ears ... which means you should listen twice as much as you talk.

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Yes, it is why I stopped commenting on this thread and why I will probably stop again.

I was told earlier on that different capacity packs at different stages of life are not to be hooked together. The SONA packs are 10S - 4P and purchased about 6 or 8 months prior to the 10S - 6P Samsung packs. All the packs are about 3 years old I believe and are probably nearing the end of life so have internal resistance.

They are still functional however about 50% of the capacity as when new. I will need new packs for distance but these are still good for about 10 mile round trips so usually go with the SONA packs to get to a destination as they are 4P and switch to the Samsung packs for the return trip as they are 6P.

Are you saying I am doing something wrong ? I don't even have the cables necessarily to combine them for 10P. Please let me know instead of quit posting. Thanks.

LC out.

latecurtis said:

I was told earlier on that different capacity packs at different stages of life are not to be hooked together.

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Not to be hooked together in Series. You can even hook cells of different CHEMISTRIES together in Parallel, as long as you use the narrower of the two voltage ranges.

Damn, you're making me want to work on my 144v battery now. It's been together electrically, but there's some interesting recommendation in the Australian Design Regulations which are "recommendations", which I want to take up. Like building the battery to survive a 20G impact forward, and a 15G impact laterally. And ensuring all cables carrying high voltage are double insulated, marked orange and and supported at a minimum of 60cm intervals. Casing should be IP44 water and dust proof too.

I was doing a lot of these things anyway, but to have an authorative check list is helpful. You should check it out:

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/files/NCOP14_Guidelines_Electric_Drive_01Jan2011.pdf

Pretty sure I've always recommended larger Lithium batteries ... multiple times! - EG
Heavy discharges are damaging to range and lifespan.

Cruising near 20mph life expectancy:
36V 16Ah battery: 500 x 20 mile cycles = 1000 miles
36V 8Ah battery: 250 x 8 mile cycles = 200 miles x2 = 400 miles

Lithium of different capacity work just fine in parallel, just not good in series.

OK.

36V 16Ah battery: 500 x 20 mile cycles = 1000 miles

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SONA packs are 8 AH and and Samsung packs 12 both are at or over 1,000 miles. I do a lot of 10 mph to 15 mph cruising. I did a lot of 20 mph cruising when in Canfield motel as bike trail and open country road but only 5 to 10 mph in city.


I thought batteries in parallel tend to equalize each other and different capacity causes problems with BMS ????

I remember discussing this before a few pages back. I really do not feel like searching for hours looking ???

What I already learned here is a good BMS will allow a pack in parallel to do low voltage shutdown and a higher capacity pack or packs may still supply power so performance decrease will be noticeable but the bike will still roll providing it does not happen up a steep incline.

I guess if good quality BMS like the SONA packs I short circuited many times being a drunken idiot survived and still run but those cheap 3 buck BMSs I built my own packs suffered catastrophic failure when subjected to short circuit. One BMS and 20 cells did however survive so 1 short circuit = 1 burnt pack out of two and a good or proper BMS like the ones in the SONA packs = 0 burnt packs out of about 6 short circuit attempts.

score - cheap BMS = 50%

Good BMS = 600%

However the BMSs in the Samsung packs may NOT be as good as the ones in the SONA packs. I never short circuited them like I did the SONA packs.They are UNTESTED. The SONA packs passed with flying colors. The cheap BMSs I ordered obviously NOT. :lol:

Thanks.


LC out.