Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev!

ElectricGod said:
I'm toying with the idea...no actual action yet.
The controller is limited by heat build-up.
The shell can dump heat at it's size only so quickly.
More heat sinking at the heat spreaders and the mosfets can deal out more amperage and live.
What I'm toying with is adding external heat spreaders.
This will allow me to add a much larger heat sink under the controller.
The controller would remain exactly as is from Nucular.
Nothing added would change the controller in any way.
It would all bolt on right in place where the current heat spreader screws are now.
After that, cooling can be expanded any way you like.
I'm thinking a water jacket, pump and radiator.
There's no reason the mosfets can't deal with 500 phase amps continuous if they stay cool.
Click to expand...

Have you been able to heat your controller so you need extra cooling?
I have only done a few test runs in the woods in cold, wet and dirty conditions. So it has good conditions to stay cool, and my bike is not very heavy. In these conditions it was just 20 degrees C, my previous controller got to about 85 degrees C in the same conditions.

Sure, if you go fast for a long time with a heavy vehicle you would probably be able to get it hot.
 
I too am waiting for summer to see if the controller will heat but for the moment it has reached 25 degrees with an outside temperature of 12 degrees it was rotating at 500 amps phase and towing a load of 400 kg. The temperature of the controller IS approximately the same as that of the engine. Last summer the engine heated to 47 degrees when it was 35 degrees outside so I think the controller will not heat more.
 
j bjork said:
Is it safe to use the 24f on a qs 138 on max settings with 24s?
I`m thinking charged to 90V (4,1V), but would eaven 92,5V (4,2V) be ok?
With safe I mean for the controller.
Click to expand...

Just noticed math is off?

24S charges at 98.4V (4.1V), at 4.2V goes over, 100.8V
 
john61ct said:
j bjork said:
Is it safe to use the 24f on a qs 138 on max settings with 24s?
I`m thinking charged to 90V (4,1V), but would eaven 92,5V (4,2V) be ok?
With safe I mean for the controller.
Click to expand...

Just noticed math is off?

24S charges at 98.4V (4.1V), at 4.2V goes over, 100.8V
Click to expand...

Wrong from me, I mean 22s
Thanks for pointing it out, I did´nt notice it myself :)
 
j bjork said:
ElectricGod said:
I'm toying with the idea...no actual action yet.
The controller is limited by heat build-up.
The shell can dump heat at it's size only so quickly.
More heat sinking at the heat spreaders and the mosfets can deal out more amperage and live.
What I'm toying with is adding external heat spreaders.
This will allow me to add a much larger heat sink under the controller.
The controller would remain exactly as is from Nucular.
Nothing added would change the controller in any way.
It would all bolt on right in place where the current heat spreader screws are now.
After that, cooling can be expanded any way you like.
I'm thinking a water jacket, pump and radiator.
There's no reason the mosfets can't deal with 500 phase amps continuous if they stay cool.
Click to expand...

Have you been able to heat your controller so you need extra cooling?
I have only done a few test runs in the woods in cold, wet and dirty conditions. So it has good conditions to stay cool, and my bike is not very heavy. In these conditions it was just 20 degrees C, my previous controller got to about 85 degrees C in the same conditions.

Sure, if you go fast for a long time with a heavy vehicle you would probably be able to get it hot.
Click to expand...

You are making a good point. Right now I don't have a motor beefy enough to run the controller to where it gets hot. That will change early January. I have a motor coming from Russia that is going to push this controller pretty hard. I admit, I don't know if the controller will get hot or not, but I'll be doing 500 phase amps pretty much continuous and that's the max for this controller. IMHO, cooling will become a problem.
 
john61ct said:
j bjork said:
Is it safe to use the 24f on a qs 138 on max settings with 24s?
I`m thinking charged to 90V (4,1V), but would eaven 92,5V (4,2V) be ok?
With safe I mean for the controller.
Click to expand...

Just noticed math is off?

24S charges at 98.4V (4.1V), at 4.2V goes over, 100.8V
Click to expand...

I think you are pushing your luck at 24S. There's no room for the controller to deal with voltage spikes and other unsavory situations. I'd say 22S is about all the more I care to risk on a 100v controller and that makes me nervous. 20S is not going to create issues.
 
ElectricGod said:
john61ct said:
j bjork said:
Is it safe to use the 24f on a qs 138 on max settings with 24s?
I`m thinking charged to 90V (4,1V), but would eaven 92,5V (4,2V) be ok?
With safe I mean for the controller.
Click to expand...

Just noticed math is off?

24S charges at 98.4V (4.1V), at 4.2V goes over, 100.8V
Click to expand...

I think you are pushing your luck at 24S. There's no room for the controller to deal with voltage spikes and other unsavory situations. I'd say 22S is about all the more I care to risk on a 100v controller and that makes me nervous. 20S is not going to create issues.
Click to expand...
Yes, I was not in any way suggesting going that high.

Just noting that @j bjork was not counting right, their stated voltages did not agree.
 
Vasili is currently developing a bms 24s so I think that Nuculars electronics controllers are ready to accept this voltage.
Maybe you will need to update the firmware.
 
PITMIX said:
Vasili is currently developing a bms 24s so I think that Nuculars electronics controllers are ready to accept this voltage.
Maybe you will need to update the firmware.
Click to expand...

The 24s is for other chemistries with lower voltage such as lifepo4. Definitely would not recommend going above 20 or 21s, as EG said it does not leave much room for voltage spikes.
 
As I said 24s was just a writing error, I meant 22s.
In the specification it says 90v max, that is what I will get with 22s at 4,1v. (in the menues it actually says 95v max, that would be really pushing it)
As I understand it Vasili has a testbench with a qs 138, what is what I will use too.

I am not an electronics expert, but as I understand it the controller design has a lot to do with what voltage ripple you will get. Also what motor you are using. And with that how close to the components max voltage you can "safely" go. So my thought was when they test with that motor and specify that max voltage, it would probably mean that this combination is relatively safe. But I wanted to ask to make sure, as it is pushing the limits.

I am using 12s modules, so in any case I have to cut out cells. I want to get as much as possible out of my combination of motor and controller, and battery too. 21s will be hard to make, the next step would probably be 20s. That would be safer, but it would also mean less power and speed. I could gear for the same speed, but then loose torque all the way and use less of the cells I already have.
 
Actually, if a 24S BMS is really in the works, I assume with valuable integration features,

I'd stick with 24S and just accept sacrificing the top SoC range necessary to not stress the controller.

That way in future if / as the setup gets more robust for over 90V, you'll be running at maximum efficiency **plus** adding to your range by approaching 4.0Vpc, maybe higher, in setting out anyway.

And maximizing longevity in the meantime.

Completely scratch that if Vasili's reasoning was just to accommodate LFP, where 24S is under 80V, and the BMS will adapt to 22S for other LI chemistries.


 
No idea about the BMS...never even looked at it myself.
BUT, if he's designing it, then my guess is it isn't going to work with low voltage cells only.
It will work with LIPO and LION too...probably even high voltage LIPO.

That's just a guess of course...since i don't really know.

j bjork said:
As I said 24s was just a writing error, I meant 22s.
In the specification it says 90v max, that is what I will get with 22s at 4,1v.

I am not an electronics expert, but as I understand it the controller design has a lot to do with what voltage ripple you will get. Also what motor you are using. And with that how close to the components max voltage you can "safely" go.
Click to expand...

Sorry if i seemed critical. It was not intentional.

I've never done it...no reason why...no lack of test equipment...but seeing actual ripple is not that hard to do. All you need is an oscilloscope and I have one of those. Connect it's test probes right at the controller. This is about as good as you will get without taking the controller apart so you can measure right at the power busses inside. Anyway, the best way to do it is to run the EV hard with the scope reading the power busses directly. You'll get to see the power ripple. my suspicion is that regen will produce quite a lot of ripple.
 
VasiliSk said:
larsb rc motors not a good thing to use, you probably will not be able to use max phase current because of high current ripple, only about 70-80%
Click to expand...

What he is not saying is go for the 24f rather then 12f and take it to the max. ;)
 
VasiliSk said:
i hope that is not the motor from Russia that im thinking about because you may get disappointed
Click to expand...
What is the reason why mentioned motor might be disappointing? Is it the same thing as it is with RC motors, or something different (like BEMF)?
 
VasiliSk said:
Electric God i hope that is not the motor from Russia that im thinking about because you may get disappointed
Click to expand...

Obviously not in this controller thread...

What motor are you thinking of? This? It has never been an RC motor that I know of. I have one arriving in a few days.

Sur-Ron%2016kw%20motor%201.png


If this is the motor you are thinking of, what were your findings?
IF not this motor, then which one and please describe what you found.
Feel free to PM me and I'll I can create a new thread on whatever it is you are referring to.
Who knows...I might even buy the motor you are referring to and investigate it myself!
 
Looking on the wiki and the 2.5 schematic, the 24 fet controller internal connectors are not listed.

Which of these 2 open connectors is the control connector?

Nucular%2024%20fet%20controller%207.jpg
 
Is the 24 Fet controller good to go for buying one now?

Is there any reason to wait for further modification or updates before purchasing the 24 Fet? Possibly like a better screen, or updated other parts inside the controller?

Thanks for some insight here.
 
Just got got my controller from Moscow that I sent to them. Guys fitted 24F Nuc inside.
Thx team Nucular!
 

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Is that something they do for everyone? How much extra did it cost you?

Why did you want it built into the Sur-Ron controller housing?
 
Around 140USD for building it in.
Worth it for me, because it is plug and play, screw on using original mounts without hassling with new mounts and besides, it looks stock even though it is tuned!
This bike is so sick now! Belt drive and 12kW pops wheelies just like that at 50km/h
Tops at around 100km/h did not have time to experiment much with settings yet though.
16s13p 30q pack in original battery casing too!

It will be brutal with 20s
 
Offroader said:
Is the 24 Fet controller good to go for buying one now?

Is there any reason to wait for further modification or updates before purchasing the 24 Fet? Possibly like a better screen, or updated other parts inside the controller?

Thanks for some insight here.
Click to expand...
There is no reason to wait any longer.
It is simple to use, simple to install, very small, super powerful and doesn't heat up.
Place an order and then you will come and give us your impressions.
It also has something incredible and irreplaceable... You can chat with the controller designer. :D
 
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