Homemade Battery Packs

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 25 2019 6:36am

DrkAngel wrote:
Dec 17 2019 9:03am
Ryobi 40V Lithium 2.6Ah batteries:
13 of 14 restored, all metered near 100% on direct to cells charge.
Ordered 40V charger to confirm on board charging circuit functional.
Output terminals will not charge except with oem charger, possibly using additional terminals to activate charging pathway?
Can path charging wire from battery neg to external charge point for paralleling batteries into eBike, or other? Will manually charge but BMS will still control balance and LVC.
Received 40V Ryobi charger.
Only 1 (of 14) batteries was evaluated as "good".
Guess I will process cells bypassing the BMS charging and discharging circuits, balance function should still function properly.
Will solder 14ga wire to Pos and Neg at the cells to XT60 connectors for paralleling. Hoping to leave battery casings intact but may need to "trim down" to fit into certain applications.

Somewhat disappointed but near full capacity, high output cells were only 30¢ each. 280 cells with only 2 "bad"! The 1 "bad pack" can still re-cell 3 x 20V max batteries.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 26 2019 6:05am

Contact the scooter's manufacturer!
Sounds like some shorted wiring?
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

docw009   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1274
Joined: Aug 02 2015 7:43am
Location: Chicago area suburbs.

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by docw009 » Jan 03 2020 3:02pm

DrkAngel wrote:
Nov 30 2019 9:38am
Latest project items 10s2p with EVE icr18650/26V are usable between 4.2V and ~3.3V but have a very broad and high energy density between 3.5V and 3.7V, towards 50%.

10A continuous BMS so will need to parallel ... 4 for max hill climbs. 36V 10Ah for daily use and 39.6V 20Ah for trips-n-such.
I just received 4 of these.
P1180073.jpg
P1180073.jpg (52.69 KiB) Viewed 2526 times
P1180076.jpg
P1180076.jpg (44.57 KiB) Viewed 2526 times
P1180075.jpg
P1180075.jpg (66.66 KiB) Viewed 2526 times
They come in a 2x10 with a frame and shipped at 35.7V. No connectors. I added the XT60 and a charge plug.

The BMS has a temperature sensor. I think the port by the charge connector is for a LED display. One more connector in the middle, and some lind of reset button.

I also noticed that the LED flashes red when I connect the charger, and the charger also blips, so if it is charging, it's doing so in bursts/ However, I only have cheap chargers. I could charge thru the discharge (kaboom of the charger fails) , I guess.

I didn't realize that the BMS is 10A, and these are apparently 7.7A cells. A little light for ebiking. Guess I will wrap them with some rubber padding and shrink wrap them. Use two in parallel for a 20A controller. Makes for a $50 battery, Always fun.

docw009   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1274
Joined: Aug 02 2015 7:43am
Location: Chicago area suburbs.

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by docw009 » Jan 05 2020 11:22pm

Looks like these are not good for ebiking. The 10A max current is pretty weak. I put two in parallel to run with a 20A KT sine wave controller, and the packs reset whenever I tried to pull the 20A with throttle.

My next step is to remove the BMS and combine the two into a 10S-4P pack with a 25A BMS. IF that works, then I'll be happy.

I wouldn't recommend them. The charging is funky. with the charger being switched on/off. The LED starts flashing blue as soon as it drops off 42 volts which is irritating. FInally, they aren''t very robust cells. I could run the above bike easily on the older 10S-2P packs. On the other hand, the spec sheet says they have cut cells in half, squashed them and overcharged them with no fires.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 06 2020 1:18am

I will likely cut tabs near white silicone, remove BMS, straighten and solder to 3 additional packs for 10s8p 36V 20.4Ah.
Might leave 1 BMS for balance only, definitely charging through output.
As proposed earlier, may trial as 11s8p charged to ~41V and cycle to 38.5V (3.5V-3.7V) for a near 10Ah capacity and, effectively, unlimited lifespan.
Perfect for at least 2 of my 250w geared hub eBikes.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

docw009   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1274
Joined: Aug 02 2015 7:43am
Location: Chicago area suburbs.

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by docw009 » Jan 09 2020 11:16pm

I found two of latest battery hookup segway packs in parallel with the original BMS could not run my 500W ebikeling notor with 20A controller. The packs would reset, but with the BMS taken out, then two in parallel could push 20A. I pulled out about 4Ah riding around while the voltage dropped from 41V to 37V.

I went ahead and put a 25A BMS on it, which tested out OK on a short ride tonight. Sag from 42 to 39V under 20A draw.

Dremeled at the tabs and removed the BMS on two packs. Cut away the plastic on one pack so I could majke a thinner sandwich.
P1081375.jpg
P1081375.jpg (82.28 KiB) Viewed 2356 times
Laid them side by side and glued them with Loctite contsruction adhesive. The next day, I soldered the leftover tabs on one pack to tie the parallel groups together. This was for balance, and not intended to carry current in the lateral direction.
P1091376.jpg
P1091376.jpg (80.43 KiB) Viewed 2356 times
Attached balance wires. WIred up BMS. I did add two copper wire jumpers at the positive and negative ends of the pack to carry current laterally from the end contacts. Hey, it powers up.
P1091395.jpg
P1091395.jpg (77.74 KiB) Viewed 2356 times
Next is to order some shrinkwrap and wrap wthe cells, with some padding.

In conclusion, It's like I made a pack out of laptop cells. It should be very safe though. The cells are in a robust plastic form. I've got a good balance BMS on it. BMS was $18. Two packs were $50. Add $8 for shipping.

docw009   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1274
Joined: Aug 02 2015 7:43am
Location: Chicago area suburbs.

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by docw009 » Jan 13 2020 2:38am

Done. 10-4p 36V 10AH. 25A balance BMS. Shrink wrapped. Almost takes up the same space as a 10S5P and weighs 4.8 pounds.

I don't know how it will do for capacity. I'll be happy if it gives 8AH.It only has to provide 20A peak for my 500W ebke, and it will do that so it wasn't a boondoggle. About $75 and some time went into this. Wouldn't buy any more.


[attachment=0]P1121422.jpg[/attachment
Attachments
P1121422.jpg
P1121422.jpg (66.27 KiB) Viewed 2276 times

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 13 2020 4:37am

docw009 wrote:
Jan 09 2020 11:16pm
I pulled out about 4Ah riding around while the voltage dropped from 41V to 37V.
Using only 4Ah from 4.1V to 3.7V means your cells have excellent capacity!
You used less than ... (900/2550 =) 35.3% for 4Ah
EVE 2550mAh.jpg
EVE 2550mAh.jpg (65.56 KiB) Viewed 2270 times
That means you will have over 10Ah+ if cells discharged to 3.3V.
docw009 wrote:
Jan 13 2020 2:38am
I don't know how it will do for capacity. I'll be happy if it gives 8AH.It only has to provide 20A peak for my 500W ebke,
Though, I would recommend a 20Ah battery paired with your 20A controller to obtain near the tested 1C usable lifespan the manufacturer obtained in testing.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

docw009   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1274
Joined: Aug 02 2015 7:43am
Location: Chicago area suburbs.

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by docw009 » Jan 13 2020 3:22pm

Thanks for the analysis. It' will be used on 10A KT sine wave controllers that peak at 20A. ridden at speeds that are giving us a miserly 6-10 WH/mile. So I think we're going fairly easy.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 19 2020 11:20am

I intend on paralleling 4x 10s2p EVE battery "Bricks" for 36V 20.4Ah.Removing 3 BMS but retaining 1.
Single BMS will retain Balance function for the entire 10s8p and will be attached to Volt meter as fuel level indicator and problem notifier.
Battery output and charge will be from bare cells and meter output will be from BMS which will notify of any BMS fault, low pack voltage, low bank voltage, over heat etc. - By blanking meter.

Slowly delving into my other battery acquisitions:

Ryobi 18V 1.6Ah modules (14 of 20) are operational, will use with my multitude of Ryobi tools.

14x Ryobi 40V 2.6Ah (except 1) will be hardwired to bypass BMS for Charge and discharge. Will externalize to XT60's for paralleling into various applications. Including 36V 10.4Ah battery replacing 36V 8Ah SLA on mower, various eBikes(?) ... will find some applications! (Oops 1 additional has 1 bank, 2 cells, bad, save for spares)

40x LG 3s 2600mAh modules worked into NEW 33.3V 31.2Ah eBike pack (1kWh+), 12 spares-singles dedicated to eBke lights.

31x 8Ah 200A continuous LiPo. 28 for 14s2p 48V++ 16Ah for 48V 1000w rear hub build. 3 for 12V 150A spot welder.

I know, it may not sound like I've accomplished much ... but, planning can be as, or more, important than getting started fast.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

FIRE - not Lithium!

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 23 2020 8:14am

.
...
I didn't do it!

UPS on the store sign lights ... confused the Utility men.

"
927 _1.jpg
927 _1.jpg (67.59 KiB) Viewed 1942 times
OLEAN — Firefighters battled cold temperatures as well as a structure fire on Buffalo Street Tuesday night.

Initial reports of a structure fire at 927 Buffalo St. were announced over the emergency scanner at approximately 7:20 p.m. Within minutes the emergency dispatcher was describing the building as fully engulfed.

As temperatures dipped into the teens, around two dozen firefighters from the Olean city and Allegany fire departments attempted to get the blaze under control.

The fire, which initially appeared toward the rear of the structure and along the roofline, later flared out near the roof at the front of the building and created a hole in the siding near ground level along the Sullivan Street side, despite the efforts of two engines and two ladder trucks on the scene.

A request was made for an engine from the Hinsdale Volunteer Fire Department to be placed on standby at 9 p.m.

According to Cattaraugus County Real Property, the property holds six units and is owned by Linda M. Barlett of 693 S. Union St. Walter’s Computer Plus occupies a storefront on the ground floor.

No further details were available, as efforts to combat the blaze were still ongoing at press time."

Got out with 2 laptops and my wimpiest electric bike ...
Last edited by DrkAngel on Feb 09 2020 11:42am, edited 2 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 29839
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by amberwolf » Jan 23 2020 5:16pm

DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 23 2020 8:14am

Got out with 2 laptops and my wimpiest electric bike ...
does this mean it was your home?

if so, i offer my sincerest sympathies from experience, and hope that at least all people and living things got out unharmed.

what can we do to help?

User avatar
thundercamel   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 367
Joined: Jul 23 2018 2:58pm
Location: Round Lake, Illinois

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by thundercamel » Jan 24 2020 12:47pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 23 2020 5:16pm
DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 23 2020 8:14am

Got out with 2 laptops and my wimpiest electric bike ...
does this mean it was your home?

if so, i offer my sincerest sympathies from experience, and hope that at least all people and living things got out unharmed.

what can we do to help?
I second this... Holy moly! The address matches up with DrkAngel's stated location in new york.
My Ebike builds - Existing bikes, affordable motor kits, self built 14s6p batteries - Now with more recumbent!

leffex   100 W

100 W
Posts: 291
Joined: Apr 08 2012 4:39pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by leffex » Jan 24 2020 1:30pm

DrkAngel wrote:
Jan 23 2020 8:14am
...
Please update us a little information is good enough!
Salestech in an ebike store

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 24 2020 5:49pm

Was allowed in for 45 minutes today, escorted by Code Enforcement.
Got:
5 eBikes, 2 old, 2 new & my Snow Beast - 1 Haro 700C pedaler
Geared Front hub ... still in box
A few more wet laptops
Most of my Ryobi cordless
4 USB back up drives
4 eZip packs
fistful of flash drives
31 HP 8Ah 200-400A LiPo
12 36V 5.1Ah Bricks
My Sales Receipts - for Sales and Income Taxes
my wallet ...

Hope I can get back in ... so much good stuff left !!!

Yeah ... was my business and home.
927 _3.jpg
927 _3.jpg (200.6 KiB) Viewed 1833 times
927 _4.jpg
927 _4.jpg (134.72 KiB) Viewed 1833 times
safe_image.php.jpg
safe_image.php.jpg (30.79 KiB) Viewed 1833 times
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jan 25 2020 2:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 24 2020 11:00pm

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
marty   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2341
Joined: Apr 19 2007 5:44pm
Location: Buffalo, New York USA
Contact:

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by marty » Jan 25 2020 7:25am

Sad to hear about fire. Let me know if need anything. I am close to you, Buffalo, New York, 14223
MARTY
Volt Electric Vehicles
http://www.voltev.com

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 27 2020 2:36pm

.
...
Just received ... Suggested Facebook AD

Facebook AD.jpg
Facebook AD.jpg (115.03 KiB) Viewed 1694 times

Fire Sale?
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 03 2020 5:13am

Landlord let me in through back door and pulled 4 more eBikes, plus a dozen good bikes, about a dozen good(?) computers and a massive amount of tools - Craftsman, B&D, Ridgid, DeWalt and, of course, Ryobi.
Found my wallet and surprisingly clean dozen pair of jeans, still folded in a box (from last laundry trip), a few pairs of Winter shoes. Will be attempting smoke abatement with Vinegar soak then wash with baking soda added.
Red Cross helped with some funds then referred me to Social Services. Easy to sign up, except, as a business owner I have a business account with collected NY Sales Tax ... which SS decided was "expendable funds" making me ineligible for assistance. I told them they had better confer with NY Tax Department before they force me to really screw myself (NY is jealous and vindictive on their Tax collecting!).
Searching found availability of "Tax Pre-payment" for Sales Tax and indicated form ST-330, but, of course Sales Tax forms did not list any form ST-330 and "search" on the Sales Tax page showed "no results", got frustrated and took me several tries, over different days to find it's unlisted location. Finally got it filled out and and cleaned out the Business account ,,, documented and provided to SS along with NY driver's License, "proof of address" (old and "none") and may receive assistance after processing and approval.

But, in good spirits, temporary lodging with a friend in government subsidized Senior housing, (female) Manager wishes "oh so much" that I was 1 year older and qualified to move into an apartment. Had 3, communities leading citizens, help me move 4 trucks of recovered items into storage (bikes are bulky) ... volunteering at Food Pantry and Community Garden really paying off. Finally enrolled at food Pantry and received a goodly amount of healthy, (but still edible, and tasty, food).

With 1 year till early retirement, I won't be re-starting a computer business, but will service my loyal customers. Social Services did not ask me to sign up at Job Service, but will need to get some job, need to do something besides siting on my butt, riding eBike and playing in the Garden. Will be taking advantage of Medicaid to patch up the old body!

Of course, I will continue to build eBike batteries and eBikes!
PS found 5 mid-drive compatible cranks I bought and forgot about!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
thundercamel   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 367
Joined: Jul 23 2018 2:58pm
Location: Round Lake, Illinois

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by thundercamel » Feb 05 2020 9:20am

Good to hear. That place was packed!
My Ebike builds - Existing bikes, affordable motor kits, self built 14s6p batteries - Now with more recumbent!

j bjork   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 500
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by j bjork » Feb 05 2020 10:04am

Sad to see, hope it works out alright.

Is it known what started the fire?

transposon   100 W

100 W
Posts: 107
Joined: Nov 24 2011 4:37pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by transposon » Feb 05 2020 3:24pm

I'm glad to hear that you are safe and that we will continue to get your posts in the forum.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 05 2020 5:28pm

j bjork wrote:
Feb 05 2020 10:04am
Is it known what started the fire?
Not Me!
Not Lithium related.
Rumors are illegal activity.
Upstairs Apt owner complained to Police that there were people in his apartment and he wanted them out!
Destroying evidence because Police were informed?
Meth lab?
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9304
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by 999zip999 » Feb 06 2020 12:15pm

Sorry for the lost. I had a fire in my garage on the first floor I live on the third. Got down looked across the street and my roommate was there talking to neighbors. He forgot about me. Then the looters how do you say looters as they come in waves and see if fire and if they think they should just find some in your fire. Good luck keep your eyes out.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5316
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 11 2020 9:29am

Some of my 10s2p Samsung 22p Hoverboard packs suffered moisture damage corrosion-rust, will have to separate and re certify cells.
Got 10 of 12 new 10s2p EVE bricks still in perfect shape ... time to do some more building!
31 8Ah 200-400A Lipo cells intact. (48V 750-1000w rear hub recovered in perfect shape)
Getting settled and sorted, expect to have plenty of spare time for experimenting.

Snow Beast has batteries dried and tested, but sadly, got hooked on car during the snow and slush, over the last couple weeks :cry:
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

Post Reply