cvin
10 W
Good info
Thank you
I like the big displays , just want mine to have 9 levels of pas...
Thank you
I like the big displays , just want mine to have 9 levels of pas...
My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000
- Thread starter robocam
- Start date
mewanderinghome
1 mW
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- Jan 12, 2020
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cscscs said:
If my understanding is correct, I think Grace is saying all the batteries stick out on the left, even the lighter, $130-saving 17.4ah, because all the batteries use the same case. Do you have the 17.4 battery, and if so you're saying it doesn't protrude? If so I would definitely go with the 17.4 for smaller form factor as well, but it sounds like barbarossa is also confirming it's likely the same case for all 3 batteries (and apparently he does have the 17.4). If they're the same width case, and it sounds like only 230g difference (thanks barbarossa), then I'll probably pay the extra to go with the 52v...or maybe get crazy and try building my own
(<-- that's me when I cross some leads I shouldn't ; )Also cscscs, does sound like the C240 won't work, but please let me know when you hear for sure. Otherwise I think I'll start with the 500c display. Thanks
mewanderinghome
1 mW
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amberwolf said:
Yeah it seemed to me that this latest CA can act as a primary display (with temperature power roll-off & a lot of other customizability), if I went to the work of re-routing cabling. If I understand correctly, it seems the CA would be installed inline with the throttle cable, and the brake cutoff cables (one of which I'll probably nix anyway) would then terminate at the CA, not having to go into the downtube. But I'd have to extend the torque and cadence cables (are these one integrated cable?) up to the CA (along with a temp sensor cable). So I'm hoping there's room for another cable in the downtube access hole. I also ordered a gear change sensor that I may or may not use, but I don't know the location of that on the bike (guessing it's some sort of tension sensor inline with shift cable somewhere?), so not sure if that's a cable I'd have to shorten or lengthen.
I thought I saw a CA video that showed how to adjust the torque level at which the CA starts sending go-juice, but you're saying 50 rpm is the minimum? If so I totally agree with you--I want assist from start as long as I'm really bearing down on the pedal and not just resting my foot there. If that's the case, I will likely just get the 500c display to start since it's half the price of the Eggrider, still quite a bit smaller than the stock display, and I don't think I'd have much use for some of the Eggrider features. Only thing I don't like about the 500c is that it has 9 levels of PAS- I'm the opposite in that I just want 5 (less 'shifting' : ) Does anyone know if there's a way to reduce it to fewer levels of assist in the settings?
barbarossa
100 W
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mewanderinghome said:
one feature of eggrider v2 i really appreciate is to change/adapt the Bafang controller settings during my rides - ALL Bafang Ultra settings can be changed incl. torque settings (dont forget to power off/on after setting was changed). you need no programming cable or computer anymore. in the end you can adapt your controller settings perfect regarding your personal needs because you dont have longer breaks to connect a computer. also number of PAS levels can be adapted. it also has no silly voltage restriction. you can even set the multiplier of amperage - i need it because of the shunt modded controller - so it even shows the correct wattage/amperage. you can set up to 3 batteries with different max and min voltages and ampere hours - so your percentage is exact. a perfect little display (in combination with a smartphone absolutely perfect) - none of the other mentioned displays will combine all this features for your Bafang Ultra - but of course it is more expensive...
basically, yes.mewanderinghome said:
you'd also need to figure out how to wire that torque sensor and cadence sensor to the pas connector of the ca v3, including what voltage they require (the torque sensor is probably more than 5v, the cadence is probably 5v), so you can ensure it gets what it needs. the pas ca v3 connector provides 5v and 10v, anything else you'd have to come up with separately.
configuring the sensors in the ca is done per the pas menus, once it's attached and working, and is easy enough but may take iterative experimentation to get it responding the way you want.
the gearsensor is basically like the hwbs hidden-wire-brake-sensor, where whenever the gearsensor detects cable movment it gives a pulse to temporarily turn off the motor. (the hwbs stays off once cable moves past a certain point, because it isn't springloaded inside like the gs likely is).
if it's output grounds momentarily then you can just wire it in parallle with the ca's ebrake input. then whenever you shift the ca will momentarily stop providing throttle to the motor...but you would have to have maximum ramping 99.99v/s for throttle off in the ca to ensure it turns throttle off fast enough for it to make any difference to shifting.
i was pretty sure that's the limit, but i can't find a specific post or page in the manual stating this in this way. there are statements that 50rpm is the minimum pas assist start, which is probably why the torque won't start below that either. :? if you have a high-pole-count cadence sensor (i think 24 is the max for the ca?) then it doesn't take much of a rotation to give a 50rpm count into the ca...but it does take some amount of crank rotation before it will start from either torque or cadence sensor.
on a regular bike of regular weight with regular rider you will probably not have any problems because of it...but you'd have to experiment to see if this is sufficient for you.
according to justin_le here they've been trying to change so the torque sensor works by itself, but hadn't done it yet, that was a couple years ago, and the latest firmare (3.13?) i tried it in was no different for me:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=1362554
i haven't even tried to do it in a while; i'm presently not even using the torque at all (tdcm bb) just cadence off that bb sensor, which works reasonably well if not perfectly, once i'm moving (a cadence sensor with more poles would work better, and possibly one that is not on the cranks but instead is on the gearing stages after that might work better, i have an experiment planned to test this, eventually). but i have to startup with the throttle, most of the time. (if i'm on level ground or a very slight downslope i can start pedaling and it will start moving and provide a very minimum assist, enough to keep moving at that speed, barely, but it won't accelerate and allow me to be able to pedal fast enough to get it going any faster, and i have to use a throttle blip to get going. if i'm on a little better downslope, still extremely slight, it'll get going normally. if i'm upslope at all, i can't start it up without the throttle.)
afaik the original idea behind the minimum was that this would help prevent a bike from just taking off under you when you stand on the pedals at a stop to ready for startup, or when mounting a bike, etc. but having it as a hard-coded limit makes it problematic for a number of usage scenarios, which while rare are not unheard of.
on regular bikes with regular riders under regular conditions none of this matters much, but it does matter for some, and for unusual cases like mine. the only workaround i know of (other than just using the throttle to get going) at present is to have a "startup" button or switch somewhere that either provides a fake cadence signal to the ca so torque works as if you were already going, or provides a throttle signal of sufficient voltage to get you going, wehther or not you actually ahve a throttle on the system (temporarily bypassing the ca's actual throttle output, or providing a signal to the ca's throttle in connector, whichever is required based on your other ca settings).
in the ca, you can "zero" the torque sensor at whatever level you want, so you can either zero it without feet on there, or zero it with them, but this would only be really useful if it would initially respond to torque without rotation.
mewanderinghome said:cscscs said:
If my understanding is correct, I think Grace is saying all the batteries stick out on the left, even the lighter, $130-saving 17.4ah, because all the batteries use the same case. Do you have the 17.4 battery, and if so you're saying it doesn't protrude? If so I would definitely go with the 17.4 for smaller form factor as well, but it sounds like barbarossa is also confirming it's likely the same case for all 3 batteries (and apparently he does have the 17.4). If they're the same width case, and it sounds like only 230g difference (thanks barbarossa), then I'll probably pay the extra to go with the 52v...or maybe get crazy and try building my own
Also cscscs, does sound like the C240 won't work, but please let me know when you hear for sure. Otherwise I think I'll start with the 500c display. Thanks
My 17.5 battery came off a FLX Blade so might be different from what Frey is providing.
barbarossa
100 W
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cscscs said:mewanderinghome said:cscscs said:
If my understanding is correct, I think Grace is saying all the batteries stick out on the left, even the lighter, $130-saving 17.4ah, because all the batteries use the same case. Do you have the 17.4 battery, and if so you're saying it doesn't protrude? If so I would definitely go with the 17.4 for smaller form factor as well, but it sounds like barbarossa is also confirming it's likely the same case for all 3 batteries (and apparently he does have the 17.4). If they're the same width case, and it sounds like only 230g difference (thanks barbarossa), then I'll probably pay the extra to go with the 52v...or maybe get crazy and try building my own
Also cscscs, does sound like the C240 won't work, but please let me know when you hear for sure. Otherwise I think I'll start with the 500c display. Thanks
My 17.5 battery came off a FLX Blade so might be different from what Frey is providing.
perhaps everyone is right. the FLX blade uses a Reention Dorado Plus that is also available as a 505mm version with 65 cells max. -> 13s5p = 5x3.5Ah= 17.5Ah at 48v
but Frey -i think- always uses a Reention Dorado Max (of course installing fewer cells in the bigger case for the 48v/17.5Ah version is never a problem):
anyways the Dorado Plus version looks like a smart alternative for the bigger Dorado Max battery case. which brings me to a new idea for my next battery built :lol:
@cscscs: you simply took your Dorado Plus FLX battery and it matched with the Frey frame original mounts !?
barbarossa
100 W
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cscscs said:
aahhh… i remember you bought a naked Frey frame. and now i understand : you reused the original Dorado Plus plastic mounts and your FLX Dorado Plus battery and it all matched in your empty Frey frame. a very useful information !!! thank you. i think a new project is born for me. i plan to test Samsung 40T INR21700 35A cells. Dorado Plus case is smaller which is nice and would probably be good for 57x 21700 cells (19s3p) which will provide not much range but a good punch for smaller ranges.
buying a new Reention battery case all mounts are included anyways so this would be no problem too. and this Reention cases are cheap :lol:
interesting… thank you for your input
Just an FYI, there is now a FREY forum on Electric Bike Review (EBR) under the Discussion by Brand & User Reviews. I'm hoping it brings more interest in the brand. While doing my own research into E Bikes it was this thread here that convinced me to purchase from FREY. So glad I did as I love the Bike.
Does anyone know if the Ultra Max motor controller does start to cut power to the drive when the battery goes to a lower Soc?
I know you can program the "Low Battery Protection", but I would like to know if the controller also starts cutting the max. available power linear if the Soc goes below a specific %?
I know you can program the "Low Battery Protection", but I would like to know if the controller also starts cutting the max. available power linear if the Soc goes below a specific %?
Hi Tjeska
I tried to set higher limit for Low Battery Protection (14S battery with Samsung 35E) and the highest limit , that can be set ,is only 44 V. Higher is over limit. These voltage 44 V is only about 6% of the rest capacity for 14S pack (Samsung 35E or Samsung 50E). I suppose ,if the battery voltage drops, the BMS will disconnect the battery earlier than the controller with its lower limit.
I tried to set higher limit for Low Battery Protection (14S battery with Samsung 35E) and the highest limit , that can be set ,is only 44 V. Higher is over limit. These voltage 44 V is only about 6% of the rest capacity for 14S pack (Samsung 35E or Samsung 50E). I suppose ,if the battery voltage drops, the BMS will disconnect the battery earlier than the controller with its lower limit.
I dont mean the Low Battery Protection setting in the bafang configuration tool, i know you can change that.
Mine on 39V (3V per cell in my 13S pack).
My question was about the way the Bafang controller reacts when the state of charge goes near that point, does it start to cut power linear or does it just hard cut when it reaches the "Low Battery Protection" voltage?
I tried to go tubeless today with the supplied rim's & tires combo that comes stock on the AM1000, worked flawless.
Just apply good rim tape, new valve and sealed even without any sealant in the tire :lol:
Very happy with the way it drives now, just needed to add one volume spacer in the Lyric and now its perfect!
Mine on 39V (3V per cell in my 13S pack).
My question was about the way the Bafang controller reacts when the state of charge goes near that point, does it start to cut power linear or does it just hard cut when it reaches the "Low Battery Protection" voltage?
I tried to go tubeless today with the supplied rim's & tires combo that comes stock on the AM1000, worked flawless.
Just apply good rim tape, new valve and sealed even without any sealant in the tire :lol:
Very happy with the way it drives now, just needed to add one volume spacer in the Lyric and now its perfect!
robocam said:I'm so happy you found this thread useful! It makes me happy to see that
bugnut said:
Definitely the best and most information on FREY is contained in this thread. I thank you for starting this thread. I must say that it had to take some balls to be one of the first to buy from them. At the time they were a relatively unknown company.
Thanks again
After all the positive comments about Frey bikes, I’m surprised they don’t show up on any of the best ebikes of 2020 lists. I’m purchasing an AM1000 after doing a good deal of research and I didn’t find a better bang for the buck ebike anywhere. I just wish they had reps here in the USA so service was available and they could do something about the shipping costs. I missed the group buy so I chose the sea shipping option that reduced the cost to $550. It’s still way less expensive than a comparably specked name brand bike.
Hi Kson,
I've had my am1000 for over 2 years and recently I drove their 2019 bikes but also the EX and I can tell you their controllers have certainly had a good tune. The earlier version was a bit abrupt, but the motor response is, of course in the end, subject to personal taste. The great thing is, you can tune it. There was a thread started some time ago and got revived just recently: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=93000&start=25
Cheers
I've had my am1000 for over 2 years and recently I drove their 2019 bikes but also the EX and I can tell you their controllers have certainly had a good tune. The earlier version was a bit abrupt, but the motor response is, of course in the end, subject to personal taste. The great thing is, you can tune it. There was a thread started some time ago and got revived just recently: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=93000&start=25
Cheers
scrambler
10 kW
Hi there,
Has anyone attempted to install a Rohloff on a Frey AM1000 or CC?
Thanks
Has anyone attempted to install a Rohloff on a Frey AM1000 or CC?
Thanks
FlyingFinn
100 W
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2018
- Messages
- 210
scrambler said:
To my understanding installing a Rohloff to the AM1000-frame would require a severe amount of high precision modding of the frame. Given that the value of the frame alone isn’t that high, around $500, I don’t deem it profitable. There is and will be Rohloff-compatible frames on the market that are ready from the box.
barbarossa
100 W
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2018
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- 113
original 48volts / 13s6p battery teardown
...a while ago I posted that the battery built is ok.
now i made the battery teardown of my original 48 volts 13s6p battery (LG MJ1 cells). i needed the case and to be honest i never used the battery with my higher ampere modded controller and my own built 15s5p battery. also the cells reached end of lifespan (i treated them with no mercy) - that was the original reason i built my own battery.
i am honest: finally i am disappointed about the original built.
some connections were 2 layer strips, some even 3 layer strips, but most of them 1 layer strip. i did not really understand the difference/system when more layers were used or not by the manufacturer - it made no real technically sense - not for example for the parallel connections. but that is ok.
several strips had a little rust:
this means this strip is not pure nickel but nickel plated steel.
nickel plated steel is a horrible conductor and for that reason gets really hot.
though the battery was almost only used with 30amps max (original controller setting):
yep, the top isolation melted a little. of course it melted at the serial connections because the serial connections i have seen inside the battery were only 2 nickel strips (sometimes more layers per strip connection but not always). 15 amps per strip thats too much for a normal pure nickel strip in that size. but it is dangerous using nickel plated steel (!)
i did not check the other strips, but if one strip is nickel plated steel why should the other strips be pure nickel ?
if the plastic isolation melts totally down the white washer can become loose and then there is only the case's negative pole -> short circuit (the washer seems to be more temperature resistent). the temperature seemed to be not high enough to do this. but hey... i am glad i don't use this battery anymore...
but aside from that little danger to life the built is ok :lol:
cheers
...a while ago I posted that the battery built is ok.
now i made the battery teardown of my original 48 volts 13s6p battery (LG MJ1 cells). i needed the case and to be honest i never used the battery with my higher ampere modded controller and my own built 15s5p battery. also the cells reached end of lifespan (i treated them with no mercy) - that was the original reason i built my own battery.
i am honest: finally i am disappointed about the original built.
some connections were 2 layer strips, some even 3 layer strips, but most of them 1 layer strip. i did not really understand the difference/system when more layers were used or not by the manufacturer - it made no real technically sense - not for example for the parallel connections. but that is ok.
several strips had a little rust:
this means this strip is not pure nickel but nickel plated steel.
nickel plated steel is a horrible conductor and for that reason gets really hot.
though the battery was almost only used with 30amps max (original controller setting):
yep, the top isolation melted a little. of course it melted at the serial connections because the serial connections i have seen inside the battery were only 2 nickel strips (sometimes more layers per strip connection but not always). 15 amps per strip thats too much for a normal pure nickel strip in that size. but it is dangerous using nickel plated steel (!)
i did not check the other strips, but if one strip is nickel plated steel why should the other strips be pure nickel ?
if the plastic isolation melts totally down the white washer can become loose and then there is only the case's negative pole -> short circuit (the washer seems to be more temperature resistent). the temperature seemed to be not high enough to do this. but hey... i am glad i don't use this battery anymore...
but aside from that little danger to life the built is ok :lol:
cheers
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