Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

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Bartosh   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 05 2020 10:29am

SilverLine wrote:
Mar 05 2020 10:26am
Bartosh wrote:
Mar 05 2020 10:24am
Exactly... what's the software version you've been using (full file name)?
The same link. But I dont have that window to the right you have.
Sorry, it was a question to kotov.aleksander.

Btw you need to expand the right part to see it.

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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 10:29am

SilverLine wrote:
Mar 05 2020 10:21am
Are you using this software : http://www.siaecosys.com/upfile/201910/ ... 072821.zip
Yes, this version, although I tried all possible
877068B6-00E4-487F-A8A1-651B9543F10F.jpeg
877068B6-00E4-487F-A8A1-651B9543F10F.jpeg (128.98 KiB) Viewed 1199 times
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Bartosh   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 05 2020 10:52am

Kotov.aleksander wrote:
Mar 05 2020 10:29am
SilverLine wrote:
Mar 05 2020 10:21am
Are you using this software : http://www.siaecosys.com/upfile/201910/ ... 072821.zip
Yes, this version, although I tried all possible
You sure? I'm asking cause I don't see this option after connecting to the controller:
nope.jpg
nope.jpg (2.06 KiB) Viewed 1193 times
Did you try to completely disable fw and see if it doesn't loose sync? Anyway, as SilverLine said, testing votol unloaded - not the best idea. Take it for a spin. From my experience with this controller, too much of fw, even loaded: problems.

BTW my defaults in calibration: 1124, 42, 0

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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 11:26am

Bartosh wrote:
Mar 05 2020 10:52am
You sure? I'm asking cause I don't see this option after connecting to the controller
I'm sure. This option opens when the motor calibration is activated. I can shoot a video how to activate this mode
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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 11:30am

Bartosh wrote:
Mar 05 2020 10:52am
Did you try to completely disable fw and see if it doesn't loose sync?
how to do it?
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larsb   1 MW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Mar 05 2020 12:05pm

Basically there’s only two settings that are important for the running of the motor when it actually turns:
The hall matching and hall phase angle shift.

Are halls color coded and matching in the connector?
What hall phase shift do you have set?
(Please post a picture of this setting screen.)

What did you change between the two videos?

It sounds as if you have a hall signal that is misfiring. You could look for a loose wire in the hall connectors and inside the motor on the hall pcb
Last edited by larsb on Mar 05 2020 2:33pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 05 2020 12:22pm

Kotov.aleksander wrote:
Mar 05 2020 11:26am
Bartosh wrote:
Mar 05 2020 10:52am
You sure? I'm asking cause I don't see this option after connecting to the controller
I'm sure. This option opens when the motor calibration is activated. I can shoot a video how to activate this mode
Please do, thanks.

Fw off? Change all the fw corresponding values on page 2 to 0 (now you have 3k/6k there), disable fw compensation, also 0.

Btw I also had sync problems unloaded. 3k of fw loaded, no problems up to 6.5k rpm, maybe more, need to check my notes. Anyway, if your problem is top speed desync, take it for a ride, really.
Last edited by Bartosh on Mar 05 2020 12:37pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 12:34pm

larsb wrote:
Mar 05 2020 12:05pm
Basically there’s only two settings that are important for the running of the motor when it actially turns:
The hall matching and hall phase angle shift.

Are halls color coded and matching in the connector?
What hall phase shift do you have set?
(Please post a picture of this setting screen.)

What did you change between the two videos?

It sounds as if you have a hall signal that is misfiring. You could look for a loose wire in the hall connectors and inside the motor on the hall pcb
halls color coded and matching in the connector
phase angle shift 60
in the hall connectors and inside the motor on the hall pcb - all ok

In the settings that the Chinese sent me, I changed the value of weak flux to 51 (from)38
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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 12:49pm

Bartosh wrote:
Mar 05 2020 12:22pm

Fw off? Change all the fw corresponding values on page 2 to 0 (now you have 3k/6k there), disable fw compensation, also 0.
I did this, the problem disappeared, but the maximum engine speed became 265

I understand that all this is due to lack of load, but I don’t understand why everything works fine for the Chinese on his video?)))
I have reconciled with this, I will test with the load, if you have the opportunity, answer the remaining questions in my first post

enable calibration mode:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vpu2GQ ... p=drivesdk
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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 12:50pm

Bartosh wrote:
Mar 05 2020 12:22pm

Fw off? Change all the fw corresponding values on page 2 to 0 (now you have 3k/6k there), disable fw compensation, also 0.
I did this, the problem disappeared, but the maximum engine speed became 265

I understand that all this is due to lack of load, but I don’t understand why everything works fine for the Chinese on his video?)))
I have reconciled with this, I will test with the load, if you have the opportunity, answer the remaining questions in my first post

enable calibration mode:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vpu2GQ ... p=drivesdk
instagram @kotovaleksander

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 05 2020 1:18pm

Have you seen their u/i values on the screen? Seems bogus. It can be a different config.

Btw which mode are you using atm? Try the sport mode or mid/high if in L. Softstart off also advised.

265 rpm tops? This is weird. Isnt L speed limit set very low by any chance?

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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 1:19pm

Maybe someone will be useful.
I found a file describing the procedure for calibrating the motor
20200207.docx.docx
(624.38 KiB) Downloaded 166 times
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Bartosh   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 05 2020 1:27pm

Kotov.aleksander wrote:
Mar 05 2020 1:19pm
Maybe someone will be useful.
I found a file describing the procedure for calibrating the motor
20200207.docx
Thanks for this doc, very much appreciated!

btw you can set each field of 3speed (page 2) to 100%, just in case.

Bartosh   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 05 2020 1:32pm

Kotov.aleksander wrote:
Mar 05 2020 12:50pm
enable calibration mode:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vpu2GQ ... p=drivesdk
great "hack" indeed. now I know why I couldn't save my calibration settings and make it accept remote throttle.

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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 1:42pm

Bartosh wrote:
Mar 05 2020 1:27pm
Kotov.aleksander wrote:
Mar 05 2020 1:19pm
Maybe someone will be useful.
I found a file describing the procedure for calibrating the motor
20200207.docx
Thanks for this doc, very much appreciated!

btw you can set each field of 3speed (page 2) to 100%, just in case.
E0EC2606-9595-4B3C-9B5C-FF5EB2170A3C.jpeg
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A079F5DA-3445-4C41-A4B8-3FF43925A6FE.jpeg
A079F5DA-3445-4C41-A4B8-3FF43925A6FE.jpeg (257.2 KiB) Viewed 1162 times
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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 05 2020 2:49pm

SilverLine wrote:
Mar 05 2020 9:28am

Is this only on the bench ?? Full throttle without load, is not very healthy for motor / controller, and could result in desync
for example I ride on a full throttle, hit a bump and unload the wheel, and lose control of the motor? How do I test this before?
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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 06 2020 3:39am

Kotov.aleksander wrote:
Mar 05 2020 2:49pm
SilverLine wrote:
Mar 05 2020 9:28am

Is this only on the bench ?? Full throttle without load, is not very healthy for motor / controller, and could result in desync
for example I ride on a full throttle, hit a bump and unload the wheel, and lose control of the motor? How do I test this before?
It's a valid question. I will follow the calibration procedure you sent... in a week or two, right now I have a different controller installed on the bike. If it's worth something, I have not experienced any desync events under load below 6500rpm / fw 3000 by far.

Regarding your question, I can't say why it behaves like that. Assuming you have kty83 inside, it's configured in the port settings, the sensor is connected, it should work. What bothers me is the 1st value (controller's temp) also reported as 100. What are the chinese saying? One key repair - haven't tried it, no mention in the manual. Some kind of factory reset? Anyone?

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 06 2020 3:59am

larsb wrote:
Feb 29 2020 12:31pm
When i set tro to set mor than 9960 the value is not stored. I don’t think you can get higher.

Question is if it’s also relative to max battery current?

it’s about 500A peak phase amplitude? Then i guess it’s proportional to battery current since you’re over the nominal current at 300A battery.
Ohh... sorry. I thought you were asking about some weird votol's config internals pA:bA. What were you trying to say? Anyway you can get 500pA from 100bA, depends on kv, rpm, winding resistance etc. The way I measured it was during a "normal" ride, so ac rms. I can also get about 500A at stall and that would be dc, just need to find a proper phase. To make it clear, you can get 500 phase amps out of votol em-150sp. If more, not tested yet.

Btw I got it recently from votol, nothing more yet but still: "yes, It support fw fuction at low speed too".

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 06 2020 4:11am

Let me increase my post counter a lil (-; Regarding the powerloss events, I was finally able to gather some data so I sent it to votol. If anyone's interested: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/un2fow39i979 ... RjwWa?dl=0

1 attempt was close to overheating the controller. But I get similar results regardless, only long term Tcoeff seems to be the factor. Overspinning - I can't confirm.

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Kotov.aleksander   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Kotov.aleksander » Mar 06 2020 5:01am

Bartosh wrote:
Mar 06 2020 3:39am
....fw 3000
in what units is this parameter measured?
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Bartosh   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 06 2020 5:07am

Kotov.aleksander wrote:
Mar 06 2020 5:01am
Bartosh wrote:
Mar 06 2020 3:39am
....fw 3000
in what units is this parameter measured?
Good question! Ask the chinese if you're in touch with them. My guess, like phase current, param/20 [A]. But who knows.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Mar 06 2020 9:40am

Bartosh wrote:
Mar 06 2020 4:11am
Let me increase my post counter a lil (-; Regarding the powerloss events, I was finally able to gather some data so I sent it to votol. If anyone's interested: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/un2fow39i979 ... RjwWa?dl=0

1 attempt was close to overheating the controller. But I get similar results regardless, only long term Tcoeff seems to be the factor. Overspinning - I can't confirm.
keep us posted :bigthumb: :bigthumb: :bigthumb:

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Mar 06 2020 12:25pm

Bartosh wrote:
Mar 06 2020 3:59am
larsb wrote:
Feb 29 2020 12:31pm
When i set tro to set mor than 9960 the value is not stored. I don’t think you can get higher.

Question is if it’s also relative to max battery current?

it’s about 500A peak phase amplitude? Then i guess it’s proportional to battery current since you’re over the nominal current at 300A battery.
Ohh... sorry. I thought you were asking about some weird votol's config internals pA:bA. What were you trying to say? Anyway you can get 500pA from 100bA, depends on kv, rpm, winding resistance etc. The way I measured it was during a "normal" ride, so ac rms. I can also get about 500A at stall and that would be dc, just need to find a proper phase. To make it clear, you can get 500 phase amps out of votol em-150sp. If more, not tested yet.

Btw I got it recently from votol, nothing more yet but still: "yes, It support fw fuction at low speed too".
Yes, you can get 500A phase from 100A at low speed in some controllers. For the Votol I’ve guessed that since every controller is delivered with preset 9960 phase amp setting that output would be proportional to bus bar current setting, then it’s somehow logical.

It’s just an assumption. Have you seen same phase current output regardless of bus bar setting?

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Mar 06 2020 6:04pm

Yes, I believe I did, but don't take my word for it, too much different settings tested. 8k 400pA for sure (@300bA, last tests). I'd be surprised though, I mean if it was batt current dependent. Btw I've seen more than 10000/11000 in some em-200, can't recall where, silentenduro's screenshots maybe. I think qs configures it this (9960) way, because they sell it together with their mid drives. So who wants to measure and verify? 150 Sp should take more than 9999... (-; I have the nucular installed atm.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Mar 07 2020 1:40am

I might need to buy a new controller to be able to compare my settings to everyone else’s, seems my function is not comparable, i can’t go over 9960.

By the looks of it i’ll get a nuc when the votol eventually breaks

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