wheel lace

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steveu88   100 µW

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wheel lace

Post by steveu88 » Mar 25 2020 7:43pm

do any of you guys know of someone in the phoenix area that works with 12g spokes? i'm looking to have a geared hub motor laced to a 20" fat tire rim. the spokes would have to be cut to length. everyone i've talked to only handle 14g spokes. thanks.

markz   100 GW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by markz » Mar 25 2020 8:15pm

If you watch youtube, you can easily learn to lace a wheel in an hour or two. Its really not that hard to lace a wheel. Then when you've done it, you then now know how to straighten a wheel.

Buy your custom cut spokes from https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bic ... pokes.html
12G is too thick, its better to go with 13/14 gauge or 13 gauge, you want that flexibility in the wheel.

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by amberwolf » Mar 25 2020 9:28pm

steveu88 wrote:
Mar 25 2020 7:43pm
do any of you guys know of someone in the phoenix area that works with 12g spokes? i'm looking to have a geared hub motor laced to a 20" fat tire rim. the spokes would have to be cut to length. everyone i've talked to only handle 14g spokes. thanks.
if you're in the metrocenter area, i can come teach you how to do the lacing and truing, after you get the spokes you want.

however...unless the rim you are using was designed for thicker spokes, you should use the thinner spokes, because thicker ones cant' be tensioned sufficiently without overstressing the holes in the rim, which damages the rim, and loosens the spokes, defeating the tensioning.

using the thinner spokes allows them to be fully tensioned where they wont' work loose and break, without damaging the rim.

it might seem backwards, but you get a stronger wheel from the thinner spokes (14g vs 12g) unless all of the wheel parts (rim, hub) were designed for the thicker spokes.

the rim probably doesn't say, so it's a better bet to use 14g on there.



fwiw, i've used 13g (on some wheels) and 13/14 butted (meaning the hub end is 13g, and the rim end is 14g) (on present wheels, iirc) sapim spokes from http://ebikes.ca on my 20" hubmotor wheels on the very heavy sb cruiser trike. haven't broken any spokes yet, despite potholes that have destroyed rims and broken motor axles. ;)

i have broken plenty of 12g spokes on wheels, though, because they break the rim which lets the spokes flex and then break at the elbow.




something else: if you're using a geared hub on a fat wheel, if it's a rear wheel make sure the chainline will pass the fully inflated tire without rubbing. if the tire is too wide, it won't work. same for the frame width--the fully inflated tire has to clear the chainstays and seatstays, too.

goatman   10 kW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by goatman » Mar 25 2020 10:18pm

what amberwolfe said, my 20 inch, was built by grin with those dual gauge sapim bicycle spokes, im getting close to 2000km on that build and haven't even had to tension a spoke yet. they even had every spoke bent to maintain the correct rim/nipple angle, its cross laced to a DDhub

steveu88   100 µW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by steveu88 » Mar 27 2020 2:25pm

great info guys, thanks. i'm looking to lace a bafang 750w geared motor to a 20" fat tire rim. the motor is currently laced to a 24" rim using 12g spokes. if 14g spokes are ok, i might just take the motor and rim to a bike shop and let them cut the spokes and lace it.of course that depends if they're even open right now. thanks again.

Balmorhea   1 kW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by Balmorhea » Mar 27 2020 2:42pm

For what it’s worth, none of the 16” and 20” hub motors I’ve built over the years using radial lacing have had any problems with spokes breaking or loosening— or any other problems.

I have had some spoke breakages on larger wheels with hub motors, internal gear hubs, or drum brake hubs where the nipples couldn’t exit the rims at the same angle as the spokes. So now I use cross-1 lacing when that works, or radial lacing when it doesn’t.

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DogDipstick   1 kW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 28 2020 10:48am

Yojimbos Garage on eBay cuts 12 gauge for ya cheap and good. Plus has moped nipples if you need.

http://www.yojimbosgarage.com/blog/
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Balmorhea   1 kW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by Balmorhea » Mar 28 2020 1:18pm

If you are using a bicycle rim, you don’t do anything good by using thick spokes. The tension in a spoke needs to be proportional to the spoke’s cross-sectional area for it to work right, and bicycle rims won’t withstand enough tension to keep 12ga spokes taut as the wheel is loaded. They pucker or crack if you try to turn the spokes up tight enough.

The job of a spoke is not to be strong; that is the rim’s job. The spoke is there to support the rim and distribute stresses around the wheel, and to do that effectively it must have some elastic stretch. So paradoxically, the thinner the spoke, the greater the load it allows a wheel to carry reliably.

steveu88   100 µW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by steveu88 » Mar 28 2020 5:55pm

i'm thinking of going with the sapim 13-14 dual gauge spokes. looks like the 13g end is going to fit in the hub flange better.

Balmorhea   1 kW

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Re: wheel lace

Post by Balmorhea » Mar 28 2020 6:25pm

steveu88 wrote:
Mar 28 2020 5:55pm
i'm thinking of going with the sapim 13-14 dual gauge spokes. looks like the 13g end is going to fit in the hub flange better.
That’s an excellent approach, though you may still need washers to get a good fit to the flange holes. They drill those suckers really big a lot of the time. It bums me out.

I would use 13-15-14ga triple butted spokes for hub motors, but they often aren’t available in typical lengths we need for that.

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/spo ... lpine-iii/

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