new eZip motor

https://www.ebay.com/i/173844365503?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D9611903296814df28b385d9f1cd4ed0a%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D13%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D233472067380%26itm%3D173844365503%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DDefault

Are these as good as the ones SUNDER posted ?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32891470196.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6b7f304016oM5A&algo_pvid=2882af66-ac50-4fe1-9817-a02ee204833d&algo_expid=2882af66-ac50-4fe1-9817-a02ee204833d-3&btsid=94e860dd-eb81-4517-966c-5f6e62a1a304&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_55

I never ordered from alli express. It says to be careful. i thought Lithiul iron was safer than LiPo ?????

Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.

No battery is safer then another.

LiPo needs careful attention just as much as LiFePO4 or any other Lithium Ion.

Problem with LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron) is that is heavier and bulkier then LiPo and Lithium Ion. I guess you could say the LiFePO4 is more forgiving then LiPo. You have to be careful with any and all batteries you are using or are putting together.

Go to ru.nkon.nl for 18650 cells, the 25R is a great cell to use, along with the PF cell. They can even tab weld the ends for you, so you can solder on wire to make what you want.

Thanks so much.

I will look into that.

LFP (LiFePO4) is almost impossible to put into thermal runaway by accident, much safer than either LI or LiPo.

And yes, LiPo a bit more dangerous than LI.

Both much more energy dense where weight & space issues are important.

markz said:

No battery is safer then another.

Click to expand...

I would disagree with that. No battery is totally safe, but how many fires have been started your standard carbon zinc batteries? How many people have gotten chemical burns or been electrocuted by them?

LTO is not safe, but the risks are different, and I think, overall lower.

@LC, I see you found them anyway. Let me just warn you that those pouches cannot be soldered. You either need to mechanically assemble them, or spot weld them. I will show you some photos a little later of how I did it.

LiFePo4 is another safer than LiPo option, because as John61ct said, they are almost immune from thermal runaway. However, they are less resistant to over-discharge than LTO, and need a lower charge rate. They do have better power density, and are way cheaper than LTO though.

The other options that might work for you is 18650 LTOs. https://lg18650.com/battery-cells/152-lto-18650-1400mah-23v.html

These are even more expensive and lower density than pouch LTOs though.

Sunder said:

LTO is not safe, but the risks are different, and I think, overall lower.

Click to expand...

Please expand on that, ideally contrasting with LFP risks and failure modes. Links?


> The other options that might work for you is 18650 LTOs.

Sold out. Other sources? Do you know the manufacturer?

Basically, LTO's only major risk to life and property aside from itself, is electrical fire and electrocution, but the latter is common to all packs. I have a pack here that can deliver something like 33kw continuously, and 66kw instantaneously. I once dropped a spanner over only part (maybe 16-18v?) of a 30Ah, 24v, 10C sustained capable pack, so at the very least 5kw (Not sure what the instantaneous rating was, but these had around 1.2-1.4mOhm internal resistance). I had holes in my T-Shirt, scorch marks on an MDF bench, fragments of molten metal and a large chunk taken out of the spanner.

To damage itself, you need to overcharge the cell by at least 50%, but if you do, some toxic gases can build up, but in a well designed cell, this should just vent in tiny amounts at a time. Draining the cell to zero doesn't appear to be a catastrophic failure mode, and in face, aside from a small loss of capacity and increase in resistance, doesn't even damage the cell.

Contrast to LFP? You're already comparing very safe with ultra safe. Both are extremely hard to set on fire - even with external heat sources, but LFP will gas and swell from over-discharging. Not sure if the gases from that are toxic, but I'd assume so too.

With a large enough pack electrical fire is also possible with LFP - In fact, electrical fires are "possible" with the right resistance wire on a AA battery... But considering the voltages these are normally used at, most of the time, if there's accidental contact, the spark will push the metal object away, rather than fuse the object to a terminal to give it time to heat, so the more likely fire risk is from the molten metal coming from the sparking. Not a lot of difference there, except LFP packs tend to be lower C-rates.

Obviously have no stats or anything to back this up, but these are just observations.

And, back to my last post. Here's a photo of how I assembled a 48v, 4Ah pack without soldering:




Close up on the tabs, I've punched a hole through them, and bolted them together.



No reason they had to be nylon bolts, and that's not finished yet - I'm going to tape it all down with foam spacers and insulating tape, and possibly even pot it with hot melt glue, but I'm still cycling it to test for weak cells.

cool thanks

link to BMS / voltage checker?

That's this one here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10S-24S-Smart-ANT-BMS-Bluetooth-Lifepo4-Li-ion-LTO-Battery-Protection-Board/313014455885?hash=item48e11d8e4d:m:mBFgf3Ju4IoPbGgqh8SgrAg



The smaller (lower current) ones are cheaper, but they seem to be out of stock currently.

It is one option however may go with the better batteries that charge 10 times faster and last 10 times longer so please SUNDER let me know what is out there or should I say where besides China can I order them. I am NOT going into the politics but put it this way. I am all for boycotting China. I will buy batteries ANYWHERE BUT CHINA. I want absolutely nothing to do with China. If it is in China it can stay there. If It WAS made in China and sitting on a shelf in any other country then I will buy it. That means someone bought in bulk and China will not profit from the sale. I am looking and if anyone knows where I can get a good deal on batteries please let me know. Thanks.

LC. out.

latecurtis said:

It is one option however may go with the better batteries that charge 10 times faster and last 10 times longer so please SUNDER let me know what is out there or should I say where besides China can I order them. I am NOT going into the politics but put it this way. I am all for boycotting China. I will buy batteries ANYWHERE BUT CHINA. I want absolutely nothing to do with China. If it is in China it can stay there. If It WAS made in China and sitting on a shelf in any other country then I will buy it. That means someone bought in bulk and China will not profit from the sale. I am looking and if anyone knows where I can get a good deal on batteries please let me know. Thanks.

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2WheelsMovesTheSoul has two batteries that a customer cancelled on.

Toshiba is a Japanese company, and manufactures in Kashiwazaki, Niigata prefecture, doesn't outsource to China, so meets your ethical sourcing requirements. (You're starting to sound like a Vegan!).

The post isn't clear if each module is 16 cells each, or 8 cells each. Picture too small to get the part number from it. If it's 16 cells each (i.e. 2 x 38v nominal packs). That's an absolute bargain. If it's 8 cells each i.e. 2 x 19v packs, then it's still cheap for Toshiba, but you could get cheaper by going no name brand from China, compromising your beliefs.

2WheelsMovesTheSoul said:

Hey guys, I bought 2 of those totally brand new in the box Toshiba SCIB packs from BatteryHookup.com they had on offer just a few weeks ago. The customer I had purchased them for has now backed out of his chopper build. Paid $250 + s/h for each.

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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=104498&p=1542321

Inwo also seems to get large pallets from time to time, but as of last post is currently out. He may have had new stock since, or expecting new stock, or be able to refer you to the customer with a pallet of them:

Altairnano are an American company. They manufacture in Anderson, Indiana. However, they are owned by a Chinese parent company, so you can decide whether that meets your requirements or not.

Inwo said:

I'm out, but a customer in Iowa has a pallet left.
Kme in Charles City.
Pm for his phone.

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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=92680&p=1538108

Just remember the trick with LTO, is that the idea is small battery, big charger. If you get a 20Ah pack, to charge at 10C, you need a 200A charger, which will be expensive as hell, and won't plug into a normal wall socket (You'd need a EV charger).

That said, for most people the difference between a pack charging in 6 minutes and 12 minutes is neither here nor there. Don't get too hung up on making the most out of the high charge and discharge capabilities. For example, I've just finished a 4Ah pack. I've got a 20A charger on that pack, so I should be able to get it from flat to nearly full in 12 mins (I've done some dangerous wizardry to stop the lack of differential in voltage slowing down the end charge, but that's another story) - But the charger is the size of a large shoebox and weighs about 5-6kg, while the battery is about the size of 3 cigarette packets, and weighs maybe just over 1kg.

In most circumstances, I would be far better off building a shoebox sized LiPo battery if I were to carry the charger around all the time. I'm not. My 95% of my intended use for this project was just enough to do the 18km trip into work. The reason I designed this way was very specific:

1. I already had an expensive high current charger;
2. I wanted as small and light as possible to avoid attention and so I could charge on my desk at work. I have a USB Power Delivery charger that can run off my laptop. It takes 4 hours instead of 12 minutes, but at work, who cares? Not like I'm going anywhere for 8 hours.
3. On the odd occasion that I want to go further, I can carry two of these batteries, get me about 30-35km, which will take an hour, stop for a coffee and charge in about 25-30 mins. I don't see myself riding too much more than 70km in one hit.

I think for you, unless you really have stimulus money burning a hole in your pocket, you should focus on the longevity and sefety of the batteries, and if by chance you come across a bargain charger, or managed to adapt a second hand PC/Server PSU to a rapid charger, don't worry about how fast it will safely take a charge.

The capacity is 275 pounds

Toshiba is a Japanese company, and manufactures in Kashiwazaki, Niigata prefecture, doesn't outsource to China, so meets your ethical sourcing requirements. (You're starting to sound like a Vegan!).

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No I love meat but not bats and live ratts and other disease carrying animals. I also refuse to do business with China due to their lack of respect for human life. The Coronavirus was an accident ??????? I don't think so.

The cheap bike above is good for the hub motor you sent. . It needs a new rim anyway as the 26" rim is bent. It went about 28 mph on the 26" rim but with a 24" rim it is good for about 22 or 23 mph maybe but great for climbing hills. I can put a chain drive motor on the back if I can get a sprocket which will bolt to a disk brake rotor. I will need a steel rear rack heavy duty anyway for cargo so the motor can bolt .Under the rack if possible so can have a large cargo basket above it. I might get the 1,800 watt 3300 rpm motor for the rear.

The bike may not be safe for 40 mph. However just because it would be capable of 40 mph does not mean I would have to do 40 mph. I could drive it at 30 mph until I get the Jackel which I am definatlly getting when I sell some of my bikes in storage.

latecurtis said:

For now though I will need a battery pack as the packs I have now are old. Has anyone ordered any of these packs from this company.

4520.png

I really like that with 24" rims for perfect gearing with the 1,800 watt brushless motor however will have to wait on my storage as I have a lot of bikes there I can sell when I get them here. I have my eye on that frame for 40+ mph. Until then I will be running a cheaper bike.

They are all over e bay and they even have 48 and 60V packs now.

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By the way, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that's 26.8Ah, less than 1kg, and that small. At that weight and size, you'd be lucky if it's 2.6Ah. I'm not exaggerating. The full listing is here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36v-lithium-ion-rechargeable-battery-26-8AH-battery-pack-for-ebikes/223907491880?hash=item3421ed3028:g:CZIAAOSwt6heIuNk

And it says it's made of 10S2P of 18650s. Average 18650 weights 45g, so 900g for the cells, leaves just enough room for a BMS.

The highest density 18650 is a NCR18650G at 3600mah. So in a fantasy world, this might be a 7.2Ah pack. Cheapest one I could find was here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Panasonic-NCR18650G-3-7v-3600mAh-18650-Battery-w-Tabs-Japan/303136285175?hash=item469454a1f7:g:r1MAAOSwJEpcwp8v

$11 per cell excl. delivery.

They ain't selling $220 worth of batteries including a BMS and the labour to assemble it for under $60 including shipping.

If there's any reason to boycott China, this one's a better one than trying to hide Coronavirus. The level of dishonesty in that country is astounding, and I'm Australian born Chinese.

latecurtis said:

Untitled2.png

The capacity is 275 pounds

Toshiba is a Japanese company, and manufactures in Kashiwazaki, Niigata prefecture, doesn't outsource to China, so meets your ethical sourcing requirements. (You're starting to sound like a Vegan!).

Click to expand...

No I love meat but not bats and live ratts and other disease carrying animals. I also refuse to do business with them due to their lack of respect for human life. The Coronavirus was an accident ??????? I don't think so.

Click to expand...

Sorry, maybe that's an Australian joke. Over the last two years ago, Australian Instagram Influencers in Australia have started to talk about "Ethically sourced food". I.e. no animal cruelty (or animal products at all), and grown using fairly paid labour, fewest food miles, etc. etc.

Most of these influencers are young attractive ladies in their 20s, and they almost always pose in bikinis, yoga pants or lingerie, so I'm not sure if they are popular for their advice, or their followers are mostly made up of men.

I have been studying China since the Coronavirus outbreak. Animal cruelty is one thing that makes a lot of people mad. I always believed that if you are going to kill an animal then must eat it. Like shooting a deer. I do not believe in keeping or raising animals for slaughter if the animal is suffering unacceptable living conditions or the animal suffers. A cow in a field grazing on grass does not suffer except for the moment it is slaughtered.

I read about how they treat older people and the total lack of respect for human life. It is common knowledge over there that if a car hits a pedestrian that it is encouraged for the driver to back up over the person several times to make sure they are dead as it is cheaper and like a fine rather than call for medical attention and pay the victim's medical bills for lord knows how long. China has no regard for life in general. The whole country is about money. Since they are so overpopulated human life has little or no value. Therefore why would they even care that they made the whole world sick due to their stupidity or more likely on purpose.
This does not apply to all Chinese people. Just the ones living in China or support mainland China.

Anyway lets get back to e bikes. I see a lot of sprockets on the electric scooter parts website that bolt to a freewheel like the stock Currie rear wheel. ONLY 26". For proper gearing 24" has advantage and a sprocket that bolts to a disk brake rotor is cheaper than the 120 buck Currie wheel. Do you know where they sell sprockets for disk brake rotors. I know they do custom sprockets but too expensive. The bike above also does not have disk in the back but V brakes so I would have working front and rear brakes for the build.



Thanks.

LC out.

Oh FFS.. study harder!

Oh FFS.. study harder!

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I am not discussing China any further. I got the information from several discussion groups on Facebook some with around 4,000 members many of them Asian and some even Chinese living in other countries. I am Just hoping the virus nightmare will go away. I want to build e bikes again.

I am not sure what a sprocket which bolts to a disk brake rotor is called but can find the perfect size sprocket for the 1,800 watt 3300 rpm brushless motor.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48-Volt-1800-Watt-Brushless-Drive-Motor-Engine-Unit-Scooter-Bike-48V-1800W-/263011093613







If I run the motor with the 1,800 At 60V it will be 40+ mph. 4,125 rpm.

rpm = 3300 / 48V * 60V = 4,125

power = 1,800W / 48 * 60 = 2,250W. Yes it will be a BEAST

I am buying the 24" bike and ordering the 1,800 watt motor soon. Please let me know about a sprocket. I am not using cheap chain. I am going with #40
Electric scooter parts will make me the custom sprocket I need for the disk brake rotor which is awesome however I have a feeling the price for such a custom sprocket wont be that awesome but probably close to 100 bucks or more so if someone knows where I can order a 76 tooth sprocket cheaper please let me know.

Not concerned about slightly over-gearing with the rear motor @ 60V as It will have the 1,000 watt hub motor on the front geared for about 23 mph for climbing hills. That will add weight but should still reach 40 mph with a good 60V battery pack. I might run it at 48V if I can find a variable controller which is 2,500W and 48 - 60V. It would be easier to get a 48V pack and a 48V pack should work with all my other e bikes. 60V will not work for any of my other e bikes. I can build a 60V pack when I get the Santa Cruz Jackel.

Thanks.

LC out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-BMC-Brushless-E-Bike-Hub-Motor-Bicycle-Controller-3600W-48V-60V-72V-50A/184008914961?hash=item2ad7c93811:g:A48AAOSwDYZd6JVe

No one cares about you blaming China, it's false but your business how you make choices.

However from a practical POV trying to do ebike stuff avoiding products made there is like saying you only want fish that don't piss in water.

Maybe not impossible, if you were wealthier and just wanted a ready-made bike for $8000, but I bet scratch the surface a high percentage of components would still come from there.

Just the way of the world, reality as it presents itself.

Banging your head on a big boulder, isn't going to affect the rock, just you.

But suit yourself. . .

Maybe not impossible, if you were wealthier and just wanted a ready-made bike for $8000, but I bet scratch the surface a high percentage of components would still come from there.

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I will never buy an e bike. I build e bikes. I am not discussing China any longer. All I will say is we will be lucky if any of us survive.


if I do survive , I found a decent controller and is my last post. I am searching now for a 60V lithium pack also.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/60V-DC-Motor-Brushless-Electric-Motor-3000W-BLDC-sprocket-mini-bike-motorcycle/184178390480?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200116171858%26meid%3Df8e8e32d89784ca79fddd41f7b49ff0f%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D184178241433%26itm%3D184178390480%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219

If you have a bit of spare cash, consider buying a Phaserunner. It's double the cost of that one, but it is the last controller you will ever need. Fully programmable from 24-90v, decent current especially if you put a extra heat sink on it, and it's totally water proof.

So much you can control, from the ramp up time, to phase currents (vs battery currents), regen battery protection (lowering current when the battery nears flat) thermal protection.

Genuine field oriented control is amazingly smooth and quiet, and more efficient.

Is ASI BAC a Euro product?

latecurtis said:

Maybe not impossible, if you were wealthier and just wanted a ready-made bike for $8000, but I bet scratch the surface a high percentage of components would still come from there.

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I will never buy an e bike. I build e bikes. I am not discussing China any longer. All I will say is we will be lucky if any of us survive.


if I do survive , I found a decent controller and is my last post. I am searching now for a 60V lithium pack also.

Click to expand...

Dude. Listen, meaning read, the sensible people posting hear. You and I are not experts. The best we can do is trust the posters that made all the mistakes before us. And typically share those experiences. Blathering a claim to be clueless fails to help you. If you and I were smart, we’d be rich. Accept your station and trust in others. Your decisions so far have been seriously frocked.

john61ct said:

Is ASI BAC a Euro product?

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No, it's Canadian. Headquartered and assembled, but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't from Chinese components. Makes the Phaserunner the same, I guess.

Wow, unexpected.

Purists will never be satisfied, but buying from a Canadian company shojld be good enough for most.

One day the Chinese will control the maple syrup monopoly worldwide. Would probably be great for the consumer