KTM 200 exc goes electric

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Bartosh   100 W

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by Bartosh » Apr 29 2020 1:37pm

Hey. Yes, unfortunately I couldn't get rid of cutouts @ 350bA regardless of different pid settings. I hope you can test it out soon and confirm, but still 21kW is a great result. I'm also [very] curious about your feedback on Votol vs Nucular performance from 0 RPM... Hope you'll have it delivered soon.

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » Apr 30 2020 2:31pm

The parts for the charger shipped (again) this week, and are at the airport (again). Maybe I will get it this time :roll:
The bms is also on its way (maybe). It has been at the airport since 12/4. I have tried to contact aliexpress to see if they could see what is going on. They told me to ask again in a month (when the 60 days timeline expires)

I have the controller, but no way to read battery voltage or to charge if I mount it :?
I got a little interested in an asi bac 8000 when I saw a European dealer with ok prices (not the $1600 or whatever is on asi:s homepage), but I will wait and see what the votol can do :wink:

On this trickier track last week the throttle response was no problem, but on my tracks in the woods at home I wanted more.

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 02 2020 3:37pm

I decided it was time to seal the batteries. I hope I will be able to use the temp sensors that is already mounted (seems to be ntc 10k ohm). I planned to use glue, like for windshields on cars. But I realized I would not be able to cut off the covers if I had to.
So I finally decided to use silicone instead. Hopefully it will stick good, but not too good..

Out with the front packs to put silicone on the inside:

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Primed the covers:

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How it looks done:

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Then I built a chain cover:

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I am a little worried it will shield the motor from shedding heat, so I drilled some holes hoping it might help:

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I saved a little of the old cover:

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It looks ugly :?
I will keep it like this for a while to see if I should bolt it to the new cover or not. If not, I will cut of the ugly lip over the new cover.

thoroughbred   100 W

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by thoroughbred » May 05 2020 6:27am

You did a great job with your build! Very well documented , too. I have to say my favorite image is the one where the little kid is pushing a toy lawnmower around the campsite. Get that little man a toy dirtbike :D

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 06 2020 12:33pm

Thanks,it is always good to know that people appreciate the updates.
I don´t think the kid with the lawnmower has anything to do with this thread? :?

There is not a lot of news about the bike, but I was riding another endurance track this weekend.
8km of mud, mountains, rocks, roots etc. I did 3 laps, so about 25km. Damn I was exhausted afterwords..

The bike was more or less fine, some small damage from a few crashes :roll:
I was however almost not able to walk in stairs yesterday :oops:

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I think it was a good thing that I sealed the batteries before the ride, especially with the wash that came after.

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The chain wear seems to might be a problem. I had some wear after the ride before this one too, but I figured it may have been because it was new and maybe not really seated yet. But this time it was even more than the last time.

HrKlev   100 mW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by HrKlev » May 06 2020 1:35pm

What kind of chain are you running? 428? Im running the same controller/motor in an ATV and installed the cheapest biltema 428 chain as a temporary solution (I see your biltema sealer on a picture, so I guess youre from Scandinavia somewhere :) ). To my big surprise it is almost the exact same tension as when new, running 220A boost, towing trailer, etc. So far only 550km, but still quite decent. So if you are running something else, maybe give it a try?

Very nice build, by the way! :thumb:

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 07 2020 11:32am

HrKlev wrote:
May 06 2020 1:35pm
What kind of chain are you running? 428? Im running the same controller/motor in an ATV and installed the cheapest biltema 428 chain as a temporary solution (I see your biltema sealer on a picture, so I guess youre from Scandinavia somewhere :) ). To my big surprise it is almost the exact same tension as when new, running 220A boost, towing trailer, etc. So far only 550km, but still quite decent. So if you are running something else, maybe give it a try?

Very nice build, by the way! :thumb:
Thanks,I have the same cheap biltema chain..
Or actually 2of them, one was too short. One is 130 rollers I think, and mine is 148.
It seemed like the easiest solution when I didn't know how long I needed.
I guess sand and dirt takes its toll on mine.
I am from Sweden, as you can see on the side under the user name :wink:

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 07 2020 11:36am

thoroughbred wrote:
May 05 2020 6:27am
You did a great job with your build! Very well documented , too. I have to say my favorite image is the one where the little kid is pushing a toy lawnmower around the campsite. Get that little man a toy dirtbike :D
I finally got what you mean,it seems like I don't know what is in my own pictures :lol:
It is my friends kid, he is a little small now. But he will probably get one in a not too distant time..

ossivirt   10 W

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by ossivirt » May 07 2020 12:50pm

I was just thinking why you have different experiences with the same chain and motor/controller. Maybe it just has to do with most likely little different gearing ratios. Atv could have smaler wheelsize so at same "ground" speed chain travels faster and with less torque/stress. Or maybe motor sproket size matters since smallest possible will wear chain more :roll:

Nice build :bigthumb:

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 07 2020 1:13pm

Well, I have 10 tooth front and 70 tooth rear. It is the biggest rear (and smallest front) sprocket I have found.
I have been thinking about going 11 tooth front and 75-80 tooth rear, custom made probably in that case.
But I don't know how much difference it would make?

One advantage with doing so is I can still go 10 tooth in the front and see how I like it. I think the gearing is pretty good now, but you never know.. The top speed would be a little low, but there are always field weakening.

larsb   1 MW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by larsb » May 07 2020 2:13pm

I am currently fitting 80t sprocket. Bought an industrial sprocket and drilled the fixation holes
F8F63BC8-49D5-42F8-AF99-FD9324615922.jpeg
F8F63BC8-49D5-42F8-AF99-FD9324615922.jpeg (109.17 KiB) Viewed 516 times
About 60eur total. But heavy and ugly if you don’t drill it out. You can get industrial sprockets as large as the wheel if you want :D

it’ll hopefully be snappy with the battery and motor at 30s and the apt96600 controller.
Last edited by larsb on May 08 2020 9:25am, edited 2 times in total.
Ride on!

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by skeetab5780 » May 07 2020 6:19pm

Sub’d really nice build. Also good work making it water tight

Any ride video?

HrKlev   100 mW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by HrKlev » May 08 2020 1:26am

I'm running a 10T and 64T (tops out at 80-something kmh with field weakening, enough for a ATV that was 50cc and topped out at 45). Must be the dirty environment as you say, the chain lives much more protected between 2 rear tires than on a dirtbike. An o-ring chain should do a better job there.

How is chain noise on your bike? I have a LOT of it under load, but its quiet once i release the throttle. I'm suspecting the 10T sprocket, so I might do soemthing about gearing.

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 08 2020 6:43am

Larsb, Interesting :)
Does it fit a 428 chain, or what is your plan?
I thought your apt96600 was broken, 30s sounds like a plan :wink:

My chain rattles when not loaded, and wines when I hit the throttle.
You cant really sneak around like with a hub, but it is silent compared to gasbikes.

No videos, it might come something sometime. I have been looking at a camera I have at home. When I feel I have time for it, I will see if I can get it working.

larsb   1 MW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by larsb » May 08 2020 9:30am

Yes, it fits 428 chain.

I reflashed the APT with new settings file from a friendly ES user, then it woke up again. It’ll be interesting to try it at 30S :D
Ride on!

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 08 2020 12:24pm

I'm sure interested in that sprocket, pm sent :)

This is some damage from last ride, it is from a crash.
But I have no idea how it happened:

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I thought it was well protected where it is mounted, but apparently not enough.
I am thinking about cutting it down and weld or solder or something a rod that is flush with the lock.
I wonder if the key is brass or what it might be.

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 20 2020 12:37pm

I went with a quick fix of the key:

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It should be difficult to bend it now, and so far it has been fine :wink:

The wear on the upper corners of the battery covers started to be a problem:

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I marked out the sizes of these:

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Primed:

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And glued them with windshield glue:

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Not very pretty, but they seem to stay in place.
I didn't have any primer for the rubber, but it seems fine so far.

However, I already have some wear on the rubber :?
Maybe I should have used a bicycle tire or something, that should probably be more wear resistant.
I guess this wont be very funny to cut off when that day comes.

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 22 2020 11:05am

Maybe I should show my charger building fail here too.

I plan to build a charger by series connect 2 huawei R4850G. Without any regulation they give about 54V and 50A, that is a bit much for me..

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This is what they look like.

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Here is a control module I finally got from taobao. With that it is possible to set about 41,5-58,5V, and 0-60A I think.

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Here comes the fail, I thought it was smart to get 12V from the fan to power the module.
It wasn't. I connected the voltage to control board first, it seemed fine.
Then I connected the can bus, boom :shock:

The fuse blew in the garage, the control board got burnt and a mosfet exploded in the psu.

Now I am low on psu:s, luckily I ordered extras on the control boards.
It works fine on the other psu with an external power source though, so that is how I will do it when I get another psu..

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 22 2020 11:25am

I have done some work on the bike too.
Let there be light:

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No brake light yet though.
I ordered a switch with some other stuff, but didn't get it.
A problem with inventory.

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A little cad* work.
(*cardboard aided design)

And a got a dash panel.

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j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » May 30 2020 1:57pm

I sure killed my old highest power on the nucular today:

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On this bike I only had about 20,5kw, on the eeb I had a little under 24kw.
This was with field weakening. I don't know how much I have tried with it before, so I might have reached higher than 20,5kw earlier too. I only had 200A setting for FW, so there may be more to gain still.This is with fw 7.15, I used 7.13 earlier.

Now I have a log too :) It hasent worked before, my sd card was bad. With a new cad I can update without problem, and get logs..
Without FW I have highest power at 60km/h and it tops 80Km/h. With FW I get highest power at 80km/h and it tops 100km/h.

I did however get cutouts at wheelspin on over FW.
I think I should lower the speed and try, I have 150% now. I think I should try 120% or something like that.

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » Jun 01 2020 1:39pm

I haven't got my replacement psu yet, but I hope it will arrive this week.
I don't have a tracking nr, so I don't really know.

But anyway, I started building my charger.

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This is basically what it will look like.
It will have a knob for adjusting voltage and current, a switch to be able to read the voltage from one psu or both in series.

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I earlier tried to take voltage inside a psu for the control board (V&A), but it didn't end well..
Fried both the psu and control board. So now I plan to use this external supply.

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Now to the new problem, I need about 12v for the wattmeter too.
It has a + &- for the high voltage, and the same for the low. But I wanted to be careful and measured between them.
And I find that both - are connected together :evil:

A solution is to use separate 12v supply's for the meter and control bord. I probably can fit 2 in there, but really?
2 supply's for a few mA.. I'm trying to figure out if it can be done easy with one. What if I put a diode on the - on the low side to the wattmeter? Would that be enough to protect the control board, and the psu´s on the other end of the can bus?

j bjork   10 kW

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Re: KTM 200 exc goes electric

Post by j bjork » Jun 02 2020 1:21pm

I made a drawing of what I mean:

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Maybe it is easier to understand what I am talking about.
Actually, I would rather put diodes on the wires to the control board.
There would be less power demand to that I believe.
But the question is would it work?

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