Inverter recommendations? 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Solar, wind, hydro and other non-fossil sources of electricity.
Post Reply
User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11648
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Inverter recommendations? 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by spinningmagnets » May 23 2019 6:50pm

So far I have brand names of...
Aims
Xantrex
Samlex
Meanwell

There is a youtube video that persuaded me that I would need a 1500W-rated unit to run a full-sized home refrigerator, due to a high start-up surge. During a temporary power outage, I might only need 1000W more to run TV, a couple lights, and keeping the laptops charged up.

All recommendations considered. I have cash to spend, please help me avoid a huge mistake...

I will NOT be running an AC unit with this...

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 30526
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by amberwolf » May 23 2019 7:17pm

afaiui, for the fridge you also need to get one that can handle the inductive load of the motor; sorry i don't know which would work best for that. an ac unit and a fridge are basically the same as far as operation goes, except the fridge probably takes less power.

i do know some people have tried don't handle motor loads very well, and either shutdown or blow up. i did that to a jensen small inverter some years back trying to run a small motor wihtout a load for an experiment.

i picked up a harbor freigth unit on clearance specifically because there are people using this specific one for power tools, etc. i forget the model, but somewhere in the forsale used section i have an ad for it that has that info; never did find a buyer though. i want to try it out on a little window ac unit so i can run that on battery on a dog trailer for summer use if i ever need to take one or more of them somewhere when it's really really hot, but havne't got around to that yet.

cooking monkey   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 35
Joined: Jul 30 2017 11:23pm
Location: about, middle of Alberta

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by cooking monkey » May 23 2019 9:04pm

Damn, you had to want 48 volts! if you ever want recommendations on 12 volts let me know. I kid you not I must own a couple dozen inverters of all types, high freq, low freq, mod, sine, split phase, single phase, Run my whole house off one including welding equipment, but all my experience is with 12 volts so I cant offer any help on 48 volt units.

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11648
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by spinningmagnets » May 24 2019 10:51am

Even though yours are all 12V, could you please tell everyone what your 12V advice is, since it sounds like you have a lot of experience...

I may even get at least one 12V inverter as a backup...

cooking monkey   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 35
Joined: Jul 30 2017 11:23pm
Location: about, middle of Alberta

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by cooking monkey » May 24 2019 1:42pm

First, believe nothing, not you tube reviews, not manufacture specs, nothing, they all lie. Brand names don't mean anything anymore. I don't believe there are any good brand names, I have only found some good models amunst the dogs.
I am not gental with equipment, I use them hard. I have gone to high freq units for everything 120 volt only, trucks and home. The split phase, and low freq units I have found (while still good units) just have too much self consumption for my liking, and greatly more with split phase if the legs (loads) arnt balanced.

Self consumption is very important, especially for a house where the inverter runs 24/7. I personally look for a inverter, if sine wave to consume less than 1 maybe 1.5 amps tops, so that's 1.5x 12.5 volts= 19 watts. In a day that's 456 watthrs just to run the inverter.

If a mod sine inverter I want to see half that, around .6 amps .6x 12.5 = 7.5 watts x 24hrs = 180 watthrs.

I will give you one model of sinewave that I used for 5 years that is first class, then two models of mod sine that are also first class, one a little better than the other, and then just because I cant believe its still on the market I will tell you what I think is the worst built sine wave inverter I have ever owned and been into, and they are still selling this POS by the container loads! But Rain is in the forcast, and I have to get the lawns mowed right now, so I will have to continue later...

cooking monkey   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 35
Joined: Jul 30 2017 11:23pm
Location: about, middle of Alberta

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by cooking monkey » May 24 2019 3:01pm

This unit is a outstanding high freq sinewave unit. Made in a couple different configuration, but if it has the yellow face its a good one. https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-Technolo ... JC0KGJPZP4
Ran my house for years on one, fridge, freezers, pressure pump, everything, just sometimes if the fridge, freezer, pressure pump was on and if I then turned on the microwave that would be to much for it and I would have to reset it, but a great quality inverter, with a self consumption that matched a mod sine unit down somewhere around .6 of a amp (@12 volts) Just a outstanding inverter.

The inverter I have currently been running the house with is https://www.donrowe.com/Xantrex-813-500 ... 000-ul.htm
This inverter beats most every sinewave inverter (its a mod sine) I have used. Internal build quality is outstanding, repairable, gate lead protection on the fets so your less likely to have a fet failure that takes out the drive ccts. Hackable as well, for example my batteries are shot, I need a new bank bad, there so bad they cant source the amps needed to start my fridge or freezer, I went into the H bridge section of this inverter and added something like 12000uf to what ever it was that the h bridge had, and now no problems, I can limp along until winter when I will buy new batts.( basically storing power in caps at 160+ volts for greater motor starting ability)
test fitting a new h bridge buss cap.jpg
ignore the blue cap, I was just testing to see if there was room inside to fit it.12 boost transformers in this unit, look at the room inside, nothing crowded, great layout. I welded with this inverter running both a miller Maxstar 150, and 200 model, for the last 3 years while it ran the house, though I was told that the lights in the house did dim when I would strike up a rod, but that's a pretty minor complaint.

cooking monkey   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 35
Joined: Jul 30 2017 11:23pm
Location: about, middle of Alberta

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by cooking monkey » May 24 2019 4:18pm

In the almost as good category is the smaller unit of the above.(mod sine) https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-813-3000 ... op?ie=UTF8

Much lighter but still packs a punch. No meters on it, kind of plain jane but its a solid work horse, tested it on my house for about 6 months, no problems but its now used for hooking up to my truck when I go down cut lines to buck up firewood with my electric chain saw.

cooking monkey   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 35
Joined: Jul 30 2017 11:23pm
Location: about, middle of Alberta

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by cooking monkey » May 24 2019 4:32pm

In the category of the worst built, worst operating pure sine unit I ever bought, used, or have seen is this POS. I wouldn't send it back to them for a refund because I wanted to own a example of the worst built (imho) sinewave inverter.
pure junk.jpg
pure junk.jpg (24.64 KiB) Viewed 2482 times
https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt- ... &s=gateway

There policy is if anyone makes a stink about it they just ask for it back and will give you a refund. In fact they actually build it so you cant easily get the cover off to look inside. I did and its so bad, you will see right away what they are trying to hide. This unit is only suitable to run light bulbs imho. Even if you get a properly working unit, and that will be by chance, you have bought a hand grenade with pin pulled.

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11648
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by spinningmagnets » May 24 2019 6:38pm

Thanks for the info! I think a lot of people will find that data useful...

If nobody has a strong warning against this, or a strong recommendation for something else, I am likely to order the Meanwell

TS-1500-148A (TS=true sine wave, 1500W, 1=120VAC output, 48=48V input-63V max, A=USA sockets

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-TS-1 ... SwBahVdLJt

billvon   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Sep 16 2007 9:53pm
Location: san diego

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by billvon » May 24 2019 9:35pm

On the cheap side I have used Cotek and AIMS with some success.

On the high end I have used a lot of Outback products and they are pricey but absolutely bulletproof.
--bill von

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14803
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by fechter » May 24 2019 10:42pm

I have a 600W Meanwell and it's been very good so far. I haven't tried abusing it though. It has very low standby drain when the load is off. A sine wave output should play nice with induction motors.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11648
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by spinningmagnets » May 25 2019 11:06am

Occasionally my life conditions have forced me to purchase "affordable" products. That being said...during those times when I have been doing well, I have never regretted buying a high-quality name-brand product.

The "Outback" brand recommendation is a new one to me, and I will remember it. Samlex and Xantrex are both a little pricey, but they seem to have a high satisfaction rating (I read a lot. that alone is not proof, but it's the best I can do). Aims is everywhere in the spread of comparisons and recommendations. They have a spotty record, but if millions have been sold, then me finding a dozen unhappy customers may still be a "less than 1%" failure rate.

With any product, its better to buy from a local dealer (within an hours drive) with a reputation for standing behind his warranty. If they replace bad units (and any brand can have the occasional lemon), then they will be diligent at avoiding crap brands or crap models.

The Meanwell that is performance-rated the same as the Samlex/Xantrex/Outback models is more affordable, which is a plus. However, the deciding factor for me has been the deep experience on ES with authentic Meanwells as chargers. They appear to be robust and made from efficient components (low heat per output watt, low standby drain-current). The others seem to have an easier-to-use interface, which is a hallmark of products that appeal to the broad retail market. The Meanwell guts seem to be repairable and upgradable.

I plan to get the "TS" model, but for the general info, the "TM" model is about $50 more for the integrated "UPS mode". This means you can plug in your mains power to the Meanwell, and the current will "pass through" to your components (TV, lights, etc), and if power goes down during a storm, it automatically switches over to drawing power from the battery (my 52V ebike batteries).

The documentation "sounded like" it also has a charger (adjustable to 4.1V per cell) to keep the battery charged up when the mains are working, but don't count on that...

If power goes out here in Kansas (which happens, but rarely), I will pull out a dolly from the closet that has the inverter and battery on it. I would rather have two 1500W inverters, instead of one 3000W inverter. A single 3000W+ unit would be typical for an RV, Cabin, sailboat, etc...which is a full-time system with no mains power.

User avatar
TPA   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 923
Joined: Jul 16 2008 1:35pm
Location: Beaumont, Texas

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by TPA » May 31 2019 1:37pm

I want to offer a suggestion from some research I've done myself, but I must mention that I have not used this product and cannot vouch for build quality or reliability. It gets good reviews everywhere I look at it, and seems like the best value for an inverter on the market.

https://www.thesolarbiz.com/schneider-c ... arger.html

24v input split phase 40A output. I think it's 3400-3600W continuous output. It has a lot of configuration flexibility.

Schneider is the current owner of the Xantrex product line. I like this inverter because it is capable of split phase, and it could theoretically wire right into your house and supply low power appliances (a stove burner if you needed to). I have a 240V soft start well pump and I am interested in it for that reason. Its size and weight seems to indicate that it may be a good build quality.

Schneider also makes a 48V version of this inverter for a couple hundred more bucks.

You will want to read up on them (pdfs in the specifications tab) because I think there may be a control unit and combox that could also required (or at least makes it much easier to use).
My Ebike is built with a hub motor purchased from www.ebikes.ca
It has performed flawlessly since it was installed. I cannot
recommend the professional folks there enough.

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7438
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by Doctorbass » Jun 09 2019 2:09am

The cheapest way to convert 48Vdc to kW of sine AC is to get used UPS !!!

I got a APC 5000VA ( 4300Watts) for 200$ no battery inside.

It work really well for the cost!!!

similar to this one.. but it output 208Vthat i converted to splitphase 120-120AC

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-electricite/lav ... cale=fr_CA

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11648
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 09 2019 7:34am

That is great advice, Doc. I haven't mentioned that I already purchased a very large 48V UPS that is verified to work with 14S ebike packs up to 58V, It originally used four lead-acid batteries, and when they wear out, the company will not let the customer replace the batteries (which is a very easy job, of course) and keep the UPS under warranty. These units are for maintaining 99.999% "uptime" on large server computers, and clients never want to be out of warranty because an electrical malfunction of any type can damage millions of dollars worth of computer equipment.

So, the UPS providers always want the clients to buy the newest model of UPS every two years or so. If you want to have them replace the four 12V lead-acids, they charge as much as a new installation of a UPS. They say it is because they need a technician to do the install if they are going to warranty it, but an "install" includes a plug for the mains power going in, and a system plug going out to the computers it is protecting. For those who are not familiar with an "Uninterrupted Power Supply / UPS", if the mains power goes down for a few minutes, or even a few hours, the UPS converts its battery power to 120VAC (or 240VAC in Australia), and it switches over to battery input automatically.

Update: I received my Meanwell, and so far it looks good. I simply wanted something smaller as a second inverter, but still just big enough to run my refrigerator.

Here is the UPS I bought as a used unit, and it has been verified to run 3000W continuous: SUA3000RMXL3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UTUZx1DX54&t=33s


User avatar
jonescg   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3815
Joined: Aug 07 2009 9:22pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by jonescg » Jul 15 2019 10:42pm

I've been impressed with the MPP Solar range of 48 V to 230 V inverters. They do solar input as well, up to 150 V DC (three 72 cell panels in series). Great value for money.

User avatar
Papa   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 395
Joined: May 13 2008 1:06am
Location: NW

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by Papa » May 08 2020 1:26am

Way late to the party... I see.

I'm on a 48Vdc solar powered FLA bank on my RV.

Five 100W Grape PVs in series (115Vdc Voc) - Plan to parallel 5 more of same.

Victron 150-35 MPPT controller (150Vdc/35A). set to charge 48V FLA bank.
Victron Phoenix 1200-48 pure sine wave inverter (1200W/48Vdc).

The primary intent for the inverter, was to power a small 700W microwave or 1100W induction cooktop - which it does nicely :) . However, (out of curiosity), I discovered that the inverter will NOT power my Comfort Zone 120Vac 800W halogen radiant space heater. :(
~ Recycle... Ride your bike again ~

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 30526
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by amberwolf » May 08 2020 10:33pm

Does it have a fan in it?

If so, there may be something in the motor type that has too large a spike at startup?

Or maybe it actually takes a lot more than 800w input to get the 800w output? (shouldn't, but....)

User avatar
Papa   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 395
Joined: May 13 2008 1:06am
Location: NW

Re: Inverter recommendations, 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by Papa » May 10 2020 2:05am

Yes, inverter has a small muffin fan, but is thermally controlled so it doesn't run on anything but extended, max amps. The space heater has two settings - 800W and 400W. The inverter doesn't like either.
~ Recycle... Ride your bike again ~

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14803
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Inverter recommendations? 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by fechter » May 10 2020 10:32am

With a resistive heater, the resistance is pretty low when it's cold so there will be an initial high current needed to get it glowing.

I got this one last year:
Img_1393.jpg
Img_1393.jpg (83.73 KiB) Viewed 474 times
It's able to run my 1750w microwave oven or a 1500w electric heater. So far it has worked well.
Img_1395.jpg
Img_1395.jpg (73.02 KiB) Viewed 474 times
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5487
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: Inverter recommendations? 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by john61ct » May 10 2020 12:57pm

Magnum and Victron are the bomb at the high end, very reliable.

Avoid Magnum's CSW line just rebadged cheap Chinese crap, stupid move that

Vanner, MasterVolt, Sterling, Outback, ProMariner are also great.

Xantrex is good but terrible CS attitude.

Samlex and Tripplite solid middle ground, and I've heard Morningstar is good.

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11648
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Inverter recommendations? 48V sine wave, no grid tie

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 23 2020 4:43pm

Just had this recommended to me over the $120 square-wave 150W EGO inverter, a generic sine wave 500W for $80

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Sine-Wave ... Sww9deE9yK

Post Reply