GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Shepherd said:
If all other things are equal then the chain version will be faster.
A chain drive is about as efficient as any drive system ever invented. Gears offer considerably more friction and hence power loss.
The gear's advantage is in durability. It won't suffer chain stretch, and if robust enough and designed properly,will outlast a chain drive and require much less maintenance.
Pick your poison.
Click to expand...
-->
Probably imo the gear version advantage is NOT durability. Because the large gear is made out of reinforced PLASTIC.
Since the h219 chain is used in gas engine motorcycles and go kart transmissions as well in much longer length it in ebike short length will probably be strong enough for ebike demands and stronger than the plastic gear.
A spare part replacement cheap plastic gear is not expensive though around € 19 . About two times as much as a h219 reinforced kmc chain .
 
Anybody have a link where to get the newest greatest complete kit. I see a lot of them but I wonder who has the newest complete kit ? 2020 gen 2. Thanks.
 
Hey guys,
i try to get my X1 Pro (2019) running with the stock controller (52Volt)
since i buid the kit, there where many updates (Controller-Firmware updates by Progtramming cable, and "Display updates" = Smartphone app).
By now, there is a working app for android, it looks nice and bluetooth to the controller is working, but the motor doesnt turn when i hit the throttle.
I did reset all parameters to default settings (by the app), but still the motor isnt doing anything.

i wrote to Jon from CYC, he said that he will provide a new "default setting for the Gen1 2019".
im not sure if there is anything wrong with my settings, or if i destroyed the controller with some fals settings i did half a year ago.



Does anyone here run the stock 52V controller and is using the new app?



thanks, Föppel
 
Föppel said:
Hey guys,
i try to get my X1 Pro (2019) running with the stock controller (52Volt)
since i buid the kit, there where many updates (Controller-Firmware updates by Progtramming cable, and "Display updates" = Smartphone app).
By now, there is a working app for android, it looks nice and bluetooth to the controller is working, but the motor doesnt turn when i hit the throttle.
I did reset all parameters to default settings (by the app), but still the motor isnt doing anything.

i wrote to Jon from CYC, he said that he will provide a new "default setting for the Gen1 2019".
im not sure if there is anything wrong with my settings, or if i destroyed the controller with some fals settings i did half a year ago.



Does anyone here run the stock 52V controller and is using the new app?



thanks, Föppel
Click to expand...

Don't use the throttle. It is not safe. It will eventually blow up your controller. I've destroyed two controllers using the throttle to start from a dead stop. Use PAS only with the gen 1 stock controller.

Is your PAS working?
 
How many amps draw do you guys get with 52 or 72v max rpm with the wheel in the air? I get 7a but I find it a bit much.
 
n2mb said:
Don't use the throttle. It is not safe. It will eventually blow up your controller. I've destroyed two controllers using the throttle to start from a dead stop. Use PAS only with the gen 1 stock controller.

Is your PAS working?
Click to expand...

Hey n2mb, i did use the throttle, and i tried to start from a dead stop several times (very poor performence). yes i think it has blown the controller by doing this.
My Display still works, also Updating the Firmware software and the display software by bluetooth worked...
On the new app, i can also see that the throttle Voltage rises when pullng the throttle, but no output to the motor.
The pas-module was pretty bad built and Pas never really worked.

did you order a 3rd stock controller and using it, or did you buy something else?

im not sure if i should go with a bac800 or a Phaserunner. I guess the Phaserunner will be a bit more plug and play? Are there any other good alternatives?
 
Föppel said:
n2mb said:
Don't use the throttle. It is not safe. It will eventually blow up your controller. I've destroyed two controllers using the throttle to start from a dead stop. Use PAS only with the gen 1 stock controller.

Is your PAS working?
Click to expand...

Hey n2mb, i did use the throttle, and i tried to start from a dead stop several times (very poor performence). yes i think it has blown the controller by doing this.
My Display still works, also Updating the Firmware software and the display software by bluetooth worked...
On the new app, i can also see that the throttle Voltage rises when pullng the throttle, but no output to the motor.
The pas-module was pretty bad built and Pas never really worked.

did you order a 3rd stock controller and using it, or did you buy something else?

im not sure if i should go with a bac800 or a Phaserunner. I guess the Phaserunner will be a bit more plug and play? Are there any other good alternatives?
Click to expand...

That sounds like a different problem. When the controller is blown, the display won't start at all and it trips the over-current limit in your BMS. It's a dead short. It's actually hard to roll the bike backwards, because the motor won't turn because of the controller short.

I think you have a different problem. You may still be able to get it to work. Check your hall sensor connections.

CYC is sending me another stock controller for the meantime. I ordered a BAC800 kit with the 750C display from them, but it will be about a month before they can ship it.
 
john61ct said:
Aren't those controllers low-powered compared to the full motor amps capacity?
Click to expand...

3500 watts peak. About as much as my bike frame and powertrain can handle. I'm already getting skipping on the rear cassette.

Other people have pushed the motors to 5 kW and even 9 kW. The BAC2000 on 72V seems like a good combination. I'm getting the BAC800 72V as a replacement.
 
I hate the idea of difficult tuning / programming with ASI BAC, seems a risky investment
 
john61ct said:
I hate the idea of difficult tuning / programming with ASI BAC, seems a risky investment
Click to expand...

It's pre-programmed by CYC. Hopefully they have a good tune.

I would like a working throttle, so I'm going to give it a shot. The stock (gen 1) controller has terrible throttle response, and eventually self-destructs if you use the throttle to start from a dead stop.
 
My cyc 72v controller won't pull more than 35-40a on flat ground, 72v battery. I have all settings on max. Does anyone else have this?
 
Tommm said:
My cyc 72v controller won't pull more than 35-40a on flat ground, 72v battery. I have all settings on max. Does anyone else have this?
Click to expand...

My gen 1 controller would easily pull 65A 52V when accelerating. Once you are up to speed, the amps are always going to drop off.
 
n2mb said:
Tommm said:
My cyc 72v controller won't pull more than 35-40a on flat ground, 72v battery. I have all settings on max. Does anyone else have this?
Click to expand...

My gen 1 controller would easily pull 65A 52V when accelerating. Once you are up to speed, the amps are always going to drop off.
Click to expand...

My gen 2 absolutely never pulls above 41-45. Even from a start on lowest gear. Maybe it's a bad controller, getting bac2000 anyway, too many issues.
 
n2mb said:
john61ct said:
I hate the idea of difficult tuning / programming with ASI BAC, seems a risky investment
Click to expand...

It's pre-programmed by CYC. Hopefully they have a good tune
Click to expand...
Yes that sounds great then.

I'm considering driving a Rohloff, need to keep torque under 130 N.m

Anyone familiar with tuning ASI enough to say, would tweaking that aspect require CYC to get it right, or is that something a user could figure out?

And / or would a CAv3 be a useful add-on?

not just for that one function of course. . .

 
john61ct said:
n2mb said:
john61ct said:
I hate the idea of difficult tuning / programming with ASI BAC, seems a risky investment
Click to expand...

It's pre-programmed by CYC. Hopefully they have a good tune
Click to expand...
Yes that sounds great then.

I'm considering driving a Rohloff, need to keep torque under 130 N.m

Anyone familiar with tuning ASI enough to say, would tweaking that aspect require CYC to get it right, or is that something a user could figure out?

And / or would a CAv3 be a useful add-on?

not just for that one function of course. . .
Click to expand...

Not sure why you'd want the CAv3 for a display vs other options.

I'm planning to run the ASI BAC 855 with the Bafang 750c display.
 
For its "meta controller" and power logging.

Not as a display, can stow it away out of sight.

But perhaps not all that useful if the ASI controllers have most of those functions covered

e.g. de-rating current based on motor temp?
 
john61ct said:
I'm considering driving a Rohloff, need to keep torque under 130 N.m

Anyone familiar with tuning ASI enough to say, would tweaking that aspect require CYC to get it right, or is that something a user could figure out?
Click to expand...

Started a new thread relevant to the above question

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=106262

.
_______
but do feel free to answer here if directly about the CYC/ASI combo, that one is more Rohloff focused

 
john61ct said:
john61ct said:
I'm considering driving a Rohloff, need to keep torque under 130 N.m

Anyone familiar with tuning ASI enough to say, would tweaking that aspect require CYC to get it right, or is that something a user could figure out?
Click to expand...

Started a new thread relevant to the above question

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=106262

.
_______
but do feel free to answer here if directly about the CYC/ASI combo, that one is more Rohloff focused
Click to expand...

Lowest reduction, 53/12t on motor, biggest chainring you can manage.
This will give you maximum chain speed and lowest torque.
 
Sorry I don't follow.

My plan is, since I don't care about top speed,

to set the front gearing in order to keep that top speed low, even in 14th gear,

in order to give maximum torque when needed in 1st.

I **really need** that high power at low rpm, will have an overtemp cutoff so never mind the motor for now.

It is really the **power** that breaks the pins (I think), the torque actually being **applied** too suddenly - over too short a time, too fast a ramp-up - against the inertia of the heavy rig, as with a standing start.

I do not want to reduce my torque in general, just control it, slow down that ramp-up, so that the shock is manageable.

 
john61ct said:
Sorry I don't follow.

My plan is, since I don't care about top speed,

to set the front gearing in order to keep that top speed low, even in 14th gear,

in order to give maximum torque when needed in 1st.

I **really need** that high power at low rpm, will have an overtemp cutoff so never mind the motor for now.

It is really the **power** that breaks the pins (I think), the torque actually being **applied** too suddenly - over too short a time, too fast a ramp-up - against the inertia of the heavy rig, as with a standing start.

I do not want to reduce my torque in general, just control it, slow down that ramp-up, so that the shock is manageable.
Click to expand...

It doesn't work like that.
The hub has a torque limit, not a power limit.
I wrote exactly how you should do it.
Power = torque x rpm. If you want as much power you can get, you need to keep your torque below 130nm and up your rpm, you do this by raising rpm in reduction stage and chain speed going back to hub with a bigger sprocket.

Also, I'm not sure what the shortest gear is on the rohloff, but if its 2:1 torque increase, and max input torque is 130nm. There is absolutely nothing you can do to get more than 260nm on rear wheel without going over 130nm input torque. You can sacrifice your top speed, it won't change anything.
 
I'll work on trying to follow all that, brain resisting.

Here's gearing infoPicture_20200517_221751099.jpg

So, if I want to keep top speed - gear 14 - under 25mph with a 26"

+ say 3" semi-fat or even 4"

how slow road speed, also rpm going to be in first?

My goal has been for that to be as slow as possible at the wheel, but the motor rpm being nice and high.

Do the CYC have low Kv options? Will do that too?

And get pack voltage up as high as possible without reducing controller reliability.
 
Hey guys,

im currently using a bbshd on my cube stereo pro. Because of the lower frame geometry i cannot put the motor at a 90° degree and the ground clearance is really bad. Therefor im thinking about switching to the CYC X1 pro gen2.

Questions:
- My battery (14s) can deliver 60A max. So I think I should limit constant current to ~50A. Is it possible to do this via the mobile app?
- Is there a curve, what torque I would get out of the system at ~50A with 32T (11-53) setup?
- Is there a curve to compare this torque to the torque of the BBSHD?
- Is it safe to use the trottle with the GEN2 controllers (stock)?

Thanks!
 
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