Bitcoins

https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/china-shuts-bitcoin-mining-farms-following-coronavirus-epidemic/
China Shuts Bitcoin Mining Farms Following Coronavirus Epidemic
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https://www.thecoinrepublic.com/2020/01/27/coronavirus-the-epidemic-affecting-the-cryptocurrency-world/
Coronavirus The Epidemic Affecting The Cryptocurrency World
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https://www.theepochtimes.com/is-coronavirus-pushing-beijing-to-crypto-currency-with-chinese-characteristics_3241810.html
Is Coronavirus Pushing Beijing to Cryptocurrency ‘With Chinese Characteristics’?
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The Crypto coins have massively dropped over the last few days, ironically they are touted as the safe haven, but traditional gold has done far better only dropping single digit %, while major cryptos lost around 50% over the last week.

I am not really a crypto coin enthusiast, the only thing I am interested in is it actually being used as practical use of money, rather than investment.
The great thing about market crashes is they tend to shake out all the old shit and allow it to be flushed away to be left with a cleaner slate, and also flush out fraudsters like Bernie Madoff etc.

To me, BitCoin as money is the shittest of them all, because it's slow and illiquid.
Stockmarket experts always say the best things to reliably trade for the sake of fairness and safety are markets that are the most liquid so you can get in and out fast.

So I have looked at the "major crypto coins" for the one that has done the most transactions and appear to be the most liquid and thus fair/reliable/fast, this to me is Ripple.
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/xrp/

You can see it has fallen more than BitCoin etc, but that is simply because it is the most liquid/fast/fair coin.
I can't stress this sentence enough, in time, the cryptocoin that behaves the most like Ripple in terms of liquidity will be the most popular, simply because it is the most practical and least manipulable coin to use, in the end (but it will take years) the cryptocoin currency wars/popularity winner coin will be the one that offers the fairest and practical to use, that is something that is incredibly fast and incredibly liquid, anything else is scammy shit.

This "Tether" coin looks pretty good as well.
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/
The way how BitCoin is still popular while being incredibly shit and impractical shows how long it's going to take before a practical/cheap/fast/liquid cryptocoin technology surfaces to the top, and then BitCoin can be forgotten old garbage and viewed as the same as MySpace/GeoCities/AOL/Napster etc, BitCoin will join MySpace it's just going to take time.
 
2010_and_2020.png
 
TheBeastie said:
The Crypto coins have massively dropped over the last few days, ironically they are touted as the safe haven, but traditional gold has done far better only dropping single digit %, while major cryptos lost around 50% over the last week.

I am not really a crypto coin enthusiast, the only thing I am interested in is it actually being used as practical use of money, rather than investment.
The great thing about market crashes is they tend to shake out all the old shit and allow it to be flushed away to be left with a cleaner slate, and also flush out fraudsters like Bernie Madoff etc.

To me, BitCoin as money is the shittest of them all, because it's slow and illiquid.
Stockmarket experts always say the best things to reliably trade for the sake of fairness and safety are markets that are the most liquid so you can get in and out fast.

So I have looked at the "major crypto coins" for the one that has done the most transactions and appear to be the most liquid and thus fair/reliable/fast, this to me is Ripple.
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/xrp/

You can see it has fallen more than BitCoin etc, but that is simply because it is the most liquid/fast/fair coin.
I can't stress this sentence enough, in time, the cryptocoin that behaves the most like Ripple in terms of liquidity will be the most popular, simply because it is the most practical and least manipulable coin to use, in the end (but it will take years) the cryptocoin currency wars/popularity winner coin will be the one that offers the fairest and practical to use, that is something that is incredibly fast and incredibly liquid, anything else is scammy shit.

This "Tether" coin looks pretty good as well.
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/
The way how BitCoin is still popular while being incredibly shit and impractical shows how long it's going to take before a practical/cheap/fast/liquid cryptocoin technology surfaces to the top, and then BitCoin can be forgotten old garbage and viewed as the same as MySpace/GeoCities/AOL/Napster etc, BitCoin will join MySpace it's just going to take time.
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Ripple doesn't really qualify as a cryptocurrency, it's essentially a private company issuing cryptographic tokens and totally centralised, a single point of failure. They're facing some major legal challenges at the mo and that's only going to get worse as time goes on. Tether is also highly dubious, the amount they issue and the amount they claim to hold in reserve don't add up, it's highly likely they're running a fractional reserve and so vulnerable to "bank runs".

The "stable coin" name is also totally unjustified imo, to my mind simply linking to a central bank issued currency doesn't qualify as stable. It's certainly true that cryptocurrencys don't offer a whole lot of stability today but what they do offer is the potential to develop and implement stabilising mechanisms that can offer total stability. For example energy backing is one option that's never been explored by banking (and almost certainly never will be), like 1 monetary unit equals 1kw/hr. Henry Ford proposed that one about a century ago and I'm pretty sure he wasn't the first.
 
Hey All new to EV stuff but not new to crypto. The most important thing you need to know if thinking about getting into crypto is be very carful and do not get scammed. I repeat do not get scammed security need to be you number one concern at all times because it like cash once it’s gone it’s gone the technicial ability of scammers in the crypto world is next level...


The market is quite volatile and there are over 1000+ coins available a large part of which have no real purpose or value. I’m a big fan of XRP Ripple because it have a real use case in the payments sector I was lucky enough to buy in at 0.01 cent and it’s been as high as $3,50

Happy to answer and questions I’m no expert but learnt the hard way so if I can save you some heartache I’m all for it
 
Well dang, here's the same site, the same day, 3 different opinions:

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-stays-below-7k-as-tone-vays-predicts-price-breakout-in-april

https://cointelegraph.com/news/this-historically-accurate-pattern-suggests-epic-bitcoin-plunge-to-3k

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-struggling-to-break-7k-heres-the-worst-case-scenario
 
I like to consider my self someone who goes far and wide looking at various interesting YouTubers and now also BitChuters because it's easy to get banned (or demonetized) on YouTube with no reason, and even use a lawyer to try and find out why you are banned from YouTube and not get an actual reason.

I thought you guys might like to listen to this guy "Quoth the Raven", he used to work at the major the wall street firms (as far as I know) but is a bit of an outcase, he prefers investing in gold rather than bitcoin, but its all the same thing.
He often interviews hedge funds managers etc who are interesting.

You gotta skip forward to able 6minutes because it starts off with 6minutes of hellos and thank yous (literally!)

https://youtu.be/1TsugExWsto?t=354

[youtube]1TsugExWsto[/youtube]
 
When the Fed buys, someone else sells. If cash leaves the market, it goes elsewhere in the economy. There's more than just market protection when the Fed buys.

I love the beginning with 'Nothing Actionable.' Being actionable means you missed out already. Jim Cramer would agree with him on that. His old radio show talked about what just IMMEDIATELY collapsed and was fresh kill. YOU get to provide that dead cat bounce right that moment.

Buffet I believe is managing retirement accounts. Maybe that's only part of it, but that's what I always hear of it.
 
NBA Player, crowdfunding, you get to pick his team if you buy him enough bitcoin. The basis of the story anyway, still not making much sense.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891967-nets-spencer-dinwiddie-to-let-fans-pick-where-he-signs-if-they-hit-bitcoin-goal?utm_source=endless-sphere.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral
 
Dauntless said:
NBA Player, crowdfunding, you get to pick his team if you buy him enough bitcoin. The basis of the story anyway, still not making much sense.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891967-nets-spencer-dinwiddie-to-let-fans-pick-where-he-signs-if-they-hit-bitcoin-goal?utm_source=endless-sphere.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral
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Does it need to make sense no
We'll see whats said on that
 
markz said:
Dauntless said:
NBA Player, crowdfunding, you get to pick his team if you buy him enough bitcoin. The basis of the story anyway, still not making much sense.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891967-nets-spencer-dinwiddie-to-let-fans-pick-where-he-signs-if-they-hit-bitcoin-goal?utm_source=endless-sphere.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral
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Does it need to make sense no
We'll see whats said on that
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Uh, yes it does, to me. Sounds too much like a troll when he makes no sense. Are you suggesting I'm missing the spirit of Bitcoin?

What's said on what?
 
Dauntless said:
Uh, yes it does, to me. Sounds too much like a troll when he makes no sense. Are you suggesting I'm missing the spirit of Bitcoin?

What's said on what?
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Bitcoin doesn't make sense, the value in a computer mining numbers for what goal, imaginary value that gets higher because its harder to mine numbers and takes longer to mine. I would have loved to have gotten into the game, bought some asic cards or high dollar gpu's and went to picking the axe at numbers for some green backs. Maybe I still can at the hundreds of other crypto-currencies out there. But like the ancients and their rocks as currency, and the feds and banks wanting to shut the door on crypto's for some deep state manifesto, finance industry cant make money off it, governments cant control it or see it or any transactions to some extent. Well I guess they can see transactions, but its anonymous and thats a big problem to Uncle Sam and his janitor Turdoh.
 
What part of Bitcoin doesn't make sense? The mining is not to create the value of bitcoin. The mining is to provide the trust in bitcoin and as that has value, the miners are paid a cut.

Not much difference between you walking out of a store with goods you haven't paid for - just a promise to pay later, and the trust of your card issuer to back it up by. For that service, they take a small cut.
 
Crypto makes at least as much sense as any fiat currency that's not commodity backed.

Personally, I like the idea of cryptographically strong tokens to guard private information and transactions but they need to be quantum resistant or else they will be garbage in a few years.

Instead of having a crypto wallet to hold your coins, I think it would be better to have a crypto token that holds your stock brokerage account, gold certificates and other assets.

The only thing that wouldn't do is insulate you from governments stealing your assets through taxation.

But using crypto to dodge taxes is another discussion.

Once we have crypto that is quantum resistant with distributed transactions that is near impossible to hack or counterfeit, it will be really interesting. I'm not sure if it is there yet, I don't think so but I'm not too well informed with the latest developments in crypto.
 
Smoke said:
Crypto makes at least as much sense as any fiat currency that's not commodity backed.
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Well, no, because NO ENTITY backs crypto. The original fiat currency coin came about because there just wasn't enough gold and silver, so they made I think it was bronze coins. It had denominations that the bronze could never be worth. And the slogan 'Not the metal, the TRUST!'

You can't do that with crypto. The American dollar is so far beyond crypto in the trust, but even third world countries in risk of currency collapse hold more trust.
[/quote]
 
I hear bitcoin is very popular in Venezuela so I think it is more like entity's forcing people on to their monetary system and cryptocurrency's popularity is a function of distrust in those governments.

Trust in fiat currency is just big brother telling you what to believe when you think about it.

I would rather have my savings backed by securities, commodities or other durable goods than government promises. That's why I want to use crypto to protect those assets from unauthorized transactions but I'm not too interested in placing value on pushing bits around (minimg).
 
Smoke said:
I hear bitcoin is very popular in Venezuela so I think it is more like entity's forcing people on to their monetary system and cryptocurrency's popularity is a function of distrust in those governments.

Trust in fiat currency is just big brother telling you what to believe when you think about it.

I would rather have my savings backed by securities, commodities or other durable goods than government promises. That's why I want to use crypto to protect those assets from unauthorized transactions but I'm not too interested in placing value on pushing bits around (minimg).
Click to expand...

Bitcoin is trying to gain ground in Venezuela but the most used cryptocurrency over there is Dash. Bitcoin isn't likely to catch up any time soon, BTC transaction fees are over $4 and rising and can take over an hour to finalise, Dash transaction fees are less than $0.01 and settled in under 2 seconds. The Petro was based on Dash, the Petro whitepaper was mostly a copy and paste of the Dash whitepaper.

Smoke said:
....

Once we have crypto that is quantum resistant with distributed transactions that is near impossible to hack or counterfeit, it will be really interesting. I'm not sure if it is there yet, I don't think so but I'm not too well informed with the latest developments in crypto.
Click to expand...

Quantum resistance is mostly media hype, only some cryptographic functions are completely broken with quantum computing, others are completely unaffected by it and can easily be implemented in place of a vulnerable method. Bitcoin uses the SHA256 algorithm and that's vulnerable to quantum computing but if it's broken we've got far bigger problems than just bitcoin. It's also used for military communications, banking infrastructure, all sorts of really important stuff that would take much longer to re-implement than open source cryptocurrency code.
 
Yep, big problems are coming and sooner than people think. I know Microsoft has a serious cold computing program that is aiming to make quantum computers with hundreds and thousands of q-bits, that will make most encryption vulnerable overnight. I'm sure Microsoft isn't the only one trying that. My guess is there are at least 2-3 parallel efforts, maybe a lot more as state sponsored cyber warfare infrastructure.

The Microsoft plan which should be typical for quantum computing is 3-4 levels of computer with the quantum bits operating at near absolute zero temperatures and a few stages at higher temperature before the data comes out at ambient temperature. I know at least one of the stages is at the testing phase and they were all designed in parallel so they should all be testing but I think the number of q-bits will start pretty low, like 32 or 64 and then ramp pretty quickly up to 512, 1024 and more.

From what I understand, the cryptographic implications of quantum computing start to show up around 128 q-bits and getting in to the 1,000+ level makes pretty much any encryption that is not quantum resistant easily broken.

It's no longer a question of if, it's a question of when. Could it be this winter, next summer? I would be surprised if we don't see major announcements before the end of 2022.
 
Bitcoin was the first mover so had an advantage over other Crypto’s but Xrp has a far better future and real utility in moving cross border payments around the world completely eliminating nostro/vostro holding accounts. Bitcoin is too Centralized with most mining in China nowadays.
 
Not the brightest Lethbridgean man around.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/lethbridge-man-bilked-out-of-11k-in-bitcoin-scheme-1.4967757
Lethbridge man bilked out of $11K in Bitcoin scheme
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LETHBRIDGE -- Lethbridge police are warning the public to be careful after a 24-year-old man was tricked by criminals into believing he was under investigation by authorities.
I wonder how fluent the criminals english really was


Officials say they were called on June 2 by a man who said he had been defrauded out of $11,000 by a caller who told him he was being investigated for money laundering.
Should have just laughed at them

The unknown individual gave him specific instructions on how to protect himself which included withdrawing money out of his account and depositing it into another account specifically made for Bitcoins.
Gotta be retarded not to know thats a scam
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Like markz said, it doesn't make sense. Or, to look at it another way, it only makes sense to a fool. The whole currency market requires a suspension of belief in reality. You're supposed to trust complete strangers with the value of your funds? Sure, the stock market works in a similar way, but the stock market doesn't make sense either. Just because a lot of people and governments are involved in these things doesn't make them real or true. They aren't real, they're fantasy. Actually, the stock market works by having inside information, and if you're out of the supply chain for that you're playing to lose.

Look, a lot of people, and I do mean a lot of people, believe that there's an invisible being who lives up in the clouds somewhere. As Saint Carlin said, there "He" is (these things are almost always male), watching every little thing that happens 24 hours a day all over the world. This being has a list of things that he really, really doesn't want you to do. If you do them, then he might burn you in a pit of hell for all eternity. But, he LOVES you!

So if a lot of people believe in something like that, most of life is one fantasy after another based on deeply held beliefs with no facts to support them and not founded on any reality. Just add bitcoin to the realm of beliefs. Besides, just like loony tunes religions, there's no legal system of regulation for bitcoin. A fool and his money...... Sure, some people make money on it. Some people go to Vegas and hit the jackpot. The vast majority lose their shirts. Bitcoin is snake oil made from the combined ingredients of high tech mumbo jumbo, diversionary tactics, lies and beliefs, and it's being sold to rubes by "visionary" con men. That's been going on since the dawn of mankind.
 
momus3 said:
Like markz said, it doesn't make sense. Or, to look at it another way, it only makes sense to a fool. The whole currency market requires a suspension of belief in reality. You're supposed to trust complete strangers with the value of your funds? Sure, the stock market works in a similar way, but the stock market doesn't make sense either. Just because a lot of people and governments are involved in these things doesn't make them real or true. They aren't real, they're fantasy. Actually, the stock market works by having inside information, and if you're out of the supply chain for that you're playing to lose.

Look, a lot of people, and I do mean a lot of people, believe that there's an invisible being who lives up in the clouds somewhere. As Saint Carlin said, there "He" is (these things are almost always male), watching every little thing that happens 24 hours a day all over the world. This being has a list of things that he really, really doesn't want you to do. If you do them, then he might burn you in a pit of hell for all eternity. But, he LOVES you!

So if a lot of people believe in something like that, most of life is one fantasy after another based on deeply held beliefs with no facts to support them and not founded on any reality. Just add bitcoin to the realm of beliefs. Besides, just like loony tunes religions, there's no legal system of regulation for bitcoin. A fool and his money...... Sure, some people make money on it. Some people go to Vegas and hit the jackpot. The vast majority lose their shirts. Bitcoin is snake oil made from the combined ingredients of high tech mumbo jumbo, diversionary tactics, lies and beliefs, and it's being sold to rubes by "visionary" con men. That's been going on since the dawn of mankind.
Click to expand...

How does money come into existence? Ie. by what mechanism are new dollars, euro, etc. created? Less than 1 in a thousand people can answer that question, "real" money is based almost entirely on blind faith.
 
Oh, you over complicate. The creation of money is a simple thing. Do you remember Bluto? If he really WAS buying the lot, building the house, he was creating money. If he shelled out $50k and sold for $100k, he created $50k. You don't believe it? How is it that the person who paid the $100k does not lose $50k from net worth while he gains $50k? This is a true story, he has indeed created $50k.

Microsoft's $1.42 TRILLION market capitalization: Where did that come from? They didn't sell anywhere near $1.42 trillion in stock, yet it exists. But they sold software, made a profit. Again, it cost them less to produce that software than they paid for it. Dang, what if someone came up with something completely different, completely better, completely incompatible with Microsoft. Where would that $1.42 trillion vanish to? Apple is right up there with Microsoft, after creating 300 millionaires on the day they went public. Didn't cost $300 million to make them millionaires, did it?

People around here keep using terms such as 'Fiat Currency,' 'Oligarchy,' oh, such grand sounds. But they don't know what it REALLY means. They wouldn't call the U.S. an oligarchy if they knew the meaning of the word. Oligarchic Russia, now THERE is an oligarchy. Less dangerous than Communist Russia ever was, because they realize there's no way to destroy the world for their own purposes. More powerful because most people don't understand what their power IS.
 
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