TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

twokeys said:

mallesepp said:

Hello you must also connect ground from USB2UART. You habe done this?

Click to expand...

Thank you! I haven't. However, still no luck. At the risk of demonstrating my ignorance in all things electrical even more (which has bothered me for a while now, as a computer person...) - is this how it should look?

If I do that, the one USB2UART adapter that has a LED for RX always shows it illuminated.

However, it won't increase anymore in the software upon pressing the power button.

With the other adapter, in now increases by exactly one when I press the power adapter. Weird differece I guess, but verified twice.

In any case, the end result is still the same.

Thanks again for your consideration!

Click to expand...

This is not we must have Luck! We must look exact the discribe in Wiki. :wink:
You must connect Rx with Tx, and Tx with Rx. OverCross! I think that is the Problem! I can see on your picture it is wrong!

Casainho, a question : what made you decide that the system should default to torque mode?

Not complaining, I just thought you preferred power mode for motor current calculations

HughF said:

Casainho, a question : what made you decide that the system should default to torque mode?

Not complaining, I just thought you preferred power mode for motor current calculations

Click to expand...

I tested the torque mode and it is clear different, I liked it. But I was able to test only on the city, no MTB. After 2 days using it, I found I prefer instead the power mode.

BOOST is also not working, so, the torque mode is probably the best option for almost everyone. I still think the power mode is good for ones like me that like changing gears, keep assist level at high cadence and lift up at startups.

vshitikov said:

AZUR said:

vshitikov said:

AZUR said:

Hello Casainho,
I had a situation where the engine suddenly turned off and never started again. I had to replace the controller. Now whenever I connect the battery to the engine, I previously disconnect the battery internally via the smartphone and put it in the lock state.
In my case, when the engine shut down, the battery was almost completely discharged. The engine never ran again until it replaced the controller.
As I have a faulty controller I am thinking of opening it to see if it works with the replacement of the capacitors.
Do you think it is possible to replace the capacitors and test the controller again?

Click to expand...

Did you try to reconnect via SWD/JTAG and flash the firmware again. It is most likely that you just corrupted your firmware when your MCU was undersupplied. Is your MCU detected via JTAG by ST link?

Click to expand...

Hi,

The first thing I did was to re-install FW through STLink. It was difficult to download from FW, it gave an error many times, but after several attempts I managed to download. But it did not work. The display did not communicate with the controller. I replaced the controller and everything was ok.

Click to expand...

Try to reflash option bytes that most probably also got corrupted you can download them from eco cycles for your motor. Then reflash casainho firmware again.

Click to expand...

Hi Vshitikov


You were right. The problem was not with the controller.
Therefore, the fact of having a battery with 15S and 63 V did not affect the capacitors of the controller.
I am using ST Link.
In fact the Option Bytes were corrupted in the Controller and the FW of the Casainho does not contain the Option Bytes.
That is why the controller did not work, even with the FW ok.

I went to a controller that had the correct Option bytes and loaded them into the ST Virtual Programmer.
Then, first I loaded the correct Option Bytes in the Controller and then I loaded the FW from Casainho.

Everything was working perfectly.

Thank you.

casainho said:

cavi said:

Thank you, I just looked at the page, and I still am in doubt, can I leave the torque calibration enabled? Or do I have to dissable it after doing my calibration?

Click to expand...

Please propose the text on wiki that would clarify you for both cases.

izeman said:

The wiki says:

Street mode on/off: click first on DOWN and then ON/OFF long press
Motor max power: click first on UP and then ON/OFF long press
Virtual throttle: after enter on Motor max power, click again first on UP and then ON/OFF long press

Shouldn't this be: Street mode on/off: "while holding DOWN, long press ON/OFF" etc ...
Or is it really click (=press & release DOWN) and after that long press ON/OFF?

Same goes for the other modes?!

Click to expand...

I think you are correct. Please update the wiki.

izeman said:

And another question: What does "Motor max power" do? When I enable it the screen shows 1500W. I can click up/down to change that value by 50W, and then? I don't get what this mode does and can't find the description on the WIKI.

Click to expand...

Try by yourself to ride with a value like the 50, 75 or 100W and you will see. Then, please update the wiki.

izeman said:

An idea regarding "Throttle mode". I does work fine, and I understand that it's meant as an emergeny mode in case eg the torque sensor fails, a crank falls off etc ... It's a good idea to instantly set throttle to 0 when you release UP/DOWN. But it would be nice if it took of at some higher value but 0 when you press it again - maybe only if you press UP (means you need power) or starts from 0 when you press DOWN.

Click to expand...

Seems a good idea! Maybe even resetting that value every time the users leaves the menu. Please add to the issues as an enhancement.

izeman said:

And it seems I can't make the motor engage at zero speed. It is even "worse" - the motor needs at least 60W human power to even engage - but human power only goes up during pedaling. What do i oversee?

Click to expand...

Yes, motor startup without pedaling a bit (make motor rotate, easy motor startup form 0 speed) is not the best implementation on the firmware - something that should be improved. Put on the issues.

Click to expand...

I am sorry, but again I read the wiki :
Enable the torque sensor full calibration (enable only after doing the correct calibration by following this guide: How to calibrate the torque sensor).
this does not answer my question. Can I leave the calibration enabled, or do I disable it after doing the calibration. Honestly i have read everything in the calibration section, even the how to calibrate. I am sorry if it seems like a obvious question but I am doing my best to learn your software, but I am stuck on this one. I really would appreciate your help on this one
Soo do I leave it enabled normally or not?

cavi said:

I am sorry, but again I read the wiki :
Enable the torque sensor full calibration (enable only after doing the correct calibration by following this guide: How to calibrate the torque sensor).
this does not answer my question. Can I leave the calibration enabled, or do I disable it after doing the calibration. Honestly i have read everything in the calibration section, even the how to calibrate. I am sorry if it seems like a obvious question but I am doing my best to learn your software, but I am stuck on this one. I really would appreciate your help on this one
Soo do I leave it enabled normally or not?

Click to expand...

My understanding is, you enter the calibration values, then set torque sensor calibration to 'enabled'. If you ever want to go back to the factory curve you just set it to 'disabled'

AZUR said:

NexusG said:

AZUR said:

NexusG said:

I see, so a 15S battery will be still the best in terms of efficiency and max RPM, even with the field weakening active

But there is also a problem with PWM frequency, leading to bad efficiency at very high RPM, right ?

Click to expand...

If we apply a very high voltage to the controller, we can burn it.

Click to expand...

Yes, the capacitors are rated at 63V, there is no margin
Fortunately, as you said before, the battery voltage decreases rapidly at his nominal value : 55.5V

Did you burn a controller during your tests ?
Which tests remain to be done ?

I want to build a 15S3P battery with 21700 Samsung 50E cells, it will be a better riding experience

Click to expand...

Hi NexusG,

I've done 500km with a 15S1P battery. But in early March the controller broke down. I don't know what caused the malfunction. I don't know if it was the controller that failed or if it was the battery that caused the controller to fail.
I already bought a new controller but I haven't installed it yet because I can't leave my home because of the COVID-19 virus.
Whenever I have to charge the battery, I disconnect it from the engine. When reconnecting the battery, a large spark occurs because the battery is fully charged.
A hypothesis for the source of the fault may be the high voltage of the battery, 63V causing a spike in the controller and over time the sparks will wear the controller.
For this reason I will start to disconnect the battery before connecting it to the engine. This way, the spark does not occur during connection.

In the figures below the first figure shows the locked battery and the second figure shows the battery ready to work.

20200423_215211.jpg

0.jpg

What I'm going to do is continue to use the engine, taking these precautions and checking that there are no more problems.

The problem happened in March, when a new 15S2P battery reached full discharge.

Anyway the TSDZ2 works very well with the 63V, 15S battery.

I hope this Help.

Click to expand...

Hi NexusG,

At this point, I can update the problem I had.

It was not the Controller (possibly the capacitors) that failed to use 15S 63V.

What happened is that the BMS, on the battery, was badly configured and the battery was turned off when the voltage dropped below a certain value.

This fact caused the controller and the Option Bytes to be unconfigured.
This is why I couldn't get the controller to work.

I use ST-link to program.
Casainho's FW does not contain Option Bytes.

It's good news because I haven't had any problems so far because I'm using 15S and 63V.

HughF said:

cavi said:

I am sorry, but again I read the wiki :
Enable the torque sensor full calibration (enable only after doing the correct calibration by following this guide: How to calibrate the torque sensor).
this does not answer my question. Can I leave the calibration enabled, or do I disable it after doing the calibration. Honestly i have read everything in the calibration section, even the how to calibrate. I am sorry if it seems like a obvious question but I am doing my best to learn your software, but I am stuck on this one. I really would appreciate your help on this one
Soo do I leave it enabled normally or not?

Click to expand...

My understanding is, you enter the calibration values, then set torque sensor calibration to 'enabled'. If you ever want to go back to the factory curve you just set it to 'disabled'

Click to expand...

Thank you, charging battery now and i will try it in a bit!!!

casainho said:

HughF said:

Casainho, a question : what made you decide that the system should default to torque mode?

Not complaining, I just thought you preferred power mode for motor current calculations

Click to expand...

I tested the torque mode and it is clear different, I liked it. But I was able to test only on the city, no MTB. After 2 days using it, I found I prefer instead the power mode.

BOOST is also not working, so, the torque mode is probably the best option for almost everyone. I still think the power mode is good for ones like me that like changing gears, keep assist level at high cadence and lift up at startups.

Click to expand...

I think I agree, most people will find torque mode to give them the performance they are expecting. Power mode, with the limitations of the cadance sensor, gives the delay that people are not expecting.

casainho said:

izeman said:

And it seems I can't make the motor engage at zero speed. It is even "worse" - the motor needs at least 60W human power to even engage - but human power only goes up during pedaling. What do i oversee?

Click to expand...

Yes, motor startup without pedaling a bit (make motor rotate, easy motor startup form 0 speed) is not the best implementation on the firmware - something that should be improved. Put on the issues.

Click to expand...

So you say that startup w/o pedaling is NOT working at all? I mean "w/o pedaling" means NO pedaling at all. Not a little bit. Nada.
I thought I could put my foot on the pedal, release the brake and the motor will start to work. This is NOT the case at present state. Correct? If you confirm then I can stop looking for a solution
This mode would be really welcome when trying to start on a hill. I guess someone mentioned that some posts ago, but it is hard to follow all posts fully.

PS: The wiki was updated.

izeman said:

casainho said:

izeman said:

And it seems I can't make the motor engage at zero speed. It is even "worse" - the motor needs at least 60W human power to even engage - but human power only goes up during pedaling. What do i oversee?

Click to expand...

Yes, motor startup without pedaling a bit (make motor rotate, easy motor startup form 0 speed) is not the best implementation on the firmware - something that should be improved. Put on the issues.

Click to expand...

So you say that startup w/o pedaling is NOT working at all? I mean "w/o pedaling" means NO pedaling at all. Not a little bit. Nada.
I thought I could put my foot on the pedal, release the brake and the motor will start to work. This is NOT the case at present state. Correct? If you confirm then I can stop looking for a solution
This mode would be really welcome when trying to start on a hill. I guess someone mentioned that some posts ago, but it is hard to follow all posts fully.

PS: The wiki was updated.

Click to expand...

You can put on the issues: "Implement 6 steps BLDC control at startup (look at KT OpenSource firmware)".

Ok, I put a couple of miles on it. I am getting there. I still have two issues and an error. first off, when I turn on the bike the display does state that I am on version 1.0.0 it does not say beta or alpha. electrify bike sold me the motor and told me it was the latest firmware just out. i am running it on a full suspension bike.
issue number one when I go to the higher assist levels, like 12 or above in order to climb a hill it seems to take like 2 or 3 pedal revolutions for the power to kick in. Making it tough to get up the hill. If I get a run at it and make the power start first I am Ok, but if I am riding normal and get part way up the hill downshift and push hard on the pedals nothing for a revolution or 2. If I am in a lower assist like 6 or 8 it does not seem to do this. Is it just that it is ramping up very slow, or is there a place for me to tun how fast it kicks in? Only time I use the levels over 8 is steep hills, but I do need it there.
Problem 2: I am in level 6 or 8 and I try and use the throttle, it takes forever to respond, like an absurdly slow ramp up, you feel it but way slow to ramp up. Is there a setting or is this normal and maybe it is linked to the assist mode I am in?
Last the Error, I am running a 860, and 3 times now I have been riding and all of a sudden a large number 1 has shown up to the right of the Assist level. The size of the number is the same as the font for the speed, so it looks like I am doing 100mph instead of 10, and if I am doing less than 10 then I have a 1 then a space then the speed. Once I turn off and back on it goes away
One other thing, when I go to the motor menu, I do not have the tab for motor control. my screen does say version 1.0.0, soo am I one update back?

Hi,

I've experienced some issues with the configuration of 850C display with v1.0.0.:

1) Running the configuration menu, and after the Battery sub-menu configuration, when I try to enter the Battery SOC sub-menu, or the Motor sub-menu, the display blocks, and show the following error message:


0x2
0x80060b4


To escape from that status, I must disconnect the battery.´

If I do, in first place, the configuration of the Battery SOC, and afterwords the Battery sub-menu, everything went well, and I can complete the configuration.
Did anyone experienced this issue?

2) Also, in sub-menu of the Display, the type of display shows: Unknown. I've used the same display with the v0.6.5, without any issue, and the display is correctly identified.

I own two bikes with 850C displays, and both have the same behavior.

Semogonif said:

Hi,

I've experienced some issues with the configuration of 850C display with v1.0.0.:

1) Running the configuration menu, and after the Battery sub-menu configuration, when I try to enter the Battery SOC sub-menu, or the Motor sub-menu, the display blocks, and show the following error message:


0x2
0x80060b4


To escape from that status, I must disconnect the battery.´

If I do, in first place, the configuration of the Battery SOC, and afterwords the Battery sub-menu, everything went well, and I can complete the configuration.
Did anyone experienced this issue?

2) Also, in sub-menu of the Display, the type of display shows: Unknown. I've used the same display with the v0.6.5, without any issue, and the display is correctly identified.

I own two bikes with 850C displays, and both have the same behavior.

Click to expand...

I had the same 0 x 2 error a couple of times and same thing I had to unplug the battery. Didn't seem to do any harm so I really didn't think much until you mentioned it, and I am running a 860

izeman said:

casainho said:

izeman said:

And it seems I can't make the motor engage at zero speed. It is even "worse" - the motor needs at least 60W human power to even engage - but human power only goes up during pedaling. What do i oversee?

Click to expand...

Yes, motor startup without pedaling a bit (make motor rotate, easy motor startup form 0 speed) is not the best implementation on the firmware - something that should be improved. Put on the issues.

Click to expand...

So you say that startup w/o pedaling is NOT working at all? I mean "w/o pedaling" means NO pedaling at all. Not a little bit. Nada.
I thought I could put my foot on the pedal, release the brake and the motor will start to work. This is NOT the case at present state. Correct? If you confirm then I can stop looking for a solution
This mode would be really welcome when trying to start on a hill. I guess someone mentioned that some posts ago, but it is hard to follow all posts fully.

PS: The wiki was updated.

Click to expand...

Assist without pedal rotation works, kind of. But it is buggy. And it also seems to give a variable amount of startup assistance depending on the assist level you are in. Which I guess is to be expected... For me, it seems to take some time after the pedals have stopped before it becomes active again.

I can however just rest my foot on the pedal and the motor will take off, which is exactly what I want.

I'm on version 1.0.0 production release. The USB charge socket on the display is not charging my phone. I've checked the Wiki, is there a configuration for this or do I have a fault with the display?

HughF said:

I can however just rest my foot on the pedal and the motor will take off, which is exactly what I want.

Click to expand...

isn't that in contradiction to the statement that one needs pedalling in order for the motor to engage?

Maybe you can explain because i could need any kind of assistance when starting on a slope.

By the way: i tried to use the walk assist function for that purpose, it was my impression that it did work..i am not sure though...i was kind of busy getting the bike going on my hill... :lol:

HughF said:

Assist without pedal rotation works, kind of. But it is buggy. And it also seems to give a variable amount of startup assistance depending on the assist level you are in. Which I guess is to be expected... For me, it seems to take some time after the pedals have stopped before it becomes active again.

I can however just rest my foot on the pedal and the motor will take off, which is exactly what I want.

Click to expand...

I did some more testing now, and I can confirm what you experienced. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Some option that totally ruins the feature is "BOOST enable". Yes, it was said that the feature is buggy and should not be used, but with the feature enabled, not only the feature it self is buggy, it also more or less completly breaks the "assist w/o pedal (awop)" stuff.
Now that I disabled boost (I had to test it - buggy or not), "awop" works pretty well. Sometimes the bike starts to move by just resting the foot on a pedal that is not completely vertical" (for the left one somewhere in the 9-12 position, right one between 12-3). That is super nice. Sometimes it doesn't work at all. I still have to investigate if this is missing torque input or something else. Really nice to switch between two screens and both with different options (for debugging: cadence, human power, motor power is nice to have enabled). I guess displaying the raw torque value makes no sense as it should be completly linear to "human power" anyway?!

andyme said:

By the way: i tried to use the walk assist function for that purpose, it was my impression that it did work..i am not sure though...i was kind of busy getting the bike going on my hill... :lol:

Click to expand...

Walk assist is NOT intended for riding the bike. Power is very much reduced as you're not meant to SIT on the bike.
But maybe that's some feature request worth thinking about:
.) Switch between "walk assist" and "launch help". It could be pretty easy, as the "launch help" just applies full power (dependant of assist level - same as "walk assist" now), and slowly ramps up power to full power for a smooth motor engagement and help for a launch on a steep hill.

izeman said:

I did some more testing now, and I can confirm what you experienced. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Some option that totally ruins the feature is "BOOST enable". Yes, it was said that the feature is buggy and should not be used, but with the feature enabled, not only the feature it self is buggy, it also more or less completly breaks the "assist w/o pedal (awop)" stuff.
Now that I disabled boost (I had to test it - buggy or not), "awop" works pretty well. Sometimes the bike starts to move by just resting the foot on a pedal that is not completely vertical" (for the left one somewhere in the 9-12 position, right one between 12-3). That is super nice. Sometimes it doesn't work at all. I still have to investigate if this is missing torque input or something else. Really nice to switch between two screens and both with different options (for debugging: cadence, human power, motor power is nice to have enabled). I guess displaying the raw torque value makes no sense as it should be completly linear to "human power" anyway?!

Click to expand...

I have my single speed setup with BOOST 'disabled' (But I still think the logic behind the enable/disable is inverted, because when you play around with the duration and fade numbers, it seems to have an effect) and assist w/o pedal. Couple this with torque mode and 10a current ramp, it is the only way I can get guaranteed power from a standstill.

Does assist w/o pedal work at any pedal angle or is it only programmed to work between 12-3?

izeman said:

andyme said:

By the way: i tried to use the walk assist function for that purpose, it was my impression that it did work..i am not sure though...i was kind of busy getting the bike going on my hill... :lol:

Click to expand...

Walk assist is NOT intended for riding the bike. Power is very much reduced as you're not meant to SIT on the bike.
But maybe that's some feature request worth thinking about:
.) Switch between "walk assist" and "launch help". It could be pretty easy, as the "launch help" just applies full power (dependant of assist level - same as "walk assist" now), and slowly ramps up power to full power for a smooth motor engagement and help for a launch on a steep hill.

Click to expand...

This would be awesome. I have tried to use walk assist to start me on a hill, obviously it failed.

andyme said:

HughF said:

I can however just rest my foot on the pedal and the motor will take off, which is exactly what I want.

Click to expand...

isn't that in contradiction to the statement that one needs pedalling in order for the motor to engage?

Maybe you can explain because i could need any kind of assistance when starting on a slope.

Click to expand...

Assist without pedal rotation - exactly that. You just rest your foot on the pedal and the motor starts you moving. This is exactly what 90% of people are expecting from a pedelec style eBike (my guess) but it must be enabled on a tsdz2 because of the cadence sensor lower rpm limit. Without it, and with motor current control set to 'power' mode, you will need 2-3 or perhaps more pedal rotations before the assist cuts in (which I wager is not what people are expecting from a pedelec eBike)

People say you must have brake sensors, personally I think it's fine to just hold the bike on the brakes and rest a little pressure on the pedal*, no different to a hill start in a manual transmission car. You soon get used to the behaviour. I'll go on record and say I don't have brake sensors installed.

*not a lawyer, you might want brake sensors if it makes you feel happier on the bike

For the best hill start performance I would setup as the following:

Motor current control = torque
Assist w/o pedal = enable
Startup BOOST = disable
Startup BOOST duration = 5
Startup BOOST fade = 6.5
Motor current ramp = 10a (maximum)
Calibrate your torque sensor then enable calibrations
Motor current max = 20a

Since I upgraded to 1.0 there are "slight" differences between what my BMS knows about SOC and what 850C THINKS about the battery.
I don't know where this comes from. The battery is set to 14S, but even at 16S it shows 90%+ which obviously is completely wrong. The LVC is set to 42V (3.0V per cell) . I haven't found anything about battery calibration.

izeman said:

Since I upgraded to 1.0 there are "slight" differences between what my BMS knows about SOC and what 850C THINKS about the battery.
I don't know where this comes from.

I haven't found anything about battery calibration.

Click to expand...

You need to do your work and read the configurations page.

HughF said:

People say you must have brake sensors, personally I think it's fine to just hold the bike on the brakes and rest a little pressure on the pedal*, no different to a hill start in a manual transmission car. You soon get used to the behaviour. I'll go on record and say I don't have brake sensors installed.

*not a lawyer, you might want brake sensors if it makes you feel happier on the bike

Click to expand...

Brake sensors are not a legal thing. Never heard of an obligation to have them anywhere around the world.
Brake sensors are RECOMMENDED to save your motor, especially the blue gear. If you break hard and the motor doesn't "realize" that (hence brake sensor read out) then it could still run full power into a non moving bike and this puts a lot of stress on the motor components.
Especially for the "awop" mode: Imagine waiting at the red light with your foot on one pedal to start off and you hold the bike with the breaks (without brake sensors): The motor will engage all the time trying to push the bike forward - very bad idea