TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Electric Motors and Controllers
HughF   100 W

100 W
Posts: 219
Joined: Jan 23 2020 6:13pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by HughF » Jun 03 2020 6:25am

andyme wrote:
Jun 03 2020 3:41am
Yesterday i suddenly encountered a short, steep uphill road in the dark. When I realised that the gear would not be sufficient, I quickly pushed the assistance from 8 to 13 while already climbing. I would have expected to get more support, but actually I did not feel this. I hardly made it up to the top of the road and my impression was the motor did not want to react to the increased assistance level, I the contrary, it hardly did anything, was my feeling. I was surprised about this behaviour, I think in the past that would have worked this way...? :roll:
Later I had a somewhat similar situation but I was able to shift down and get more cadence and the support of the motor was there again.

Is it possible that the motor has problems to support under pressure with low cadence?

I am using torque mode.
I don't get much assistance at all below level 13, you should try the same hill again with a higher assistance level still - you should easily be able to get 750w out of the motor with low cadence on the pedals. And the new code is able to pump more motor current at low RPM compared with 0.6.8 and such... Hill climbing performance is very good for me on 1.0.0, and I don't have gears at all!
Genesis iOiD Alfine8 Hard tail MTB, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display
Raleigh reynolds road frame from the 80's, TSDZ2, SW102 display, 1x10 drivetrain, gravel tyres

romelec   100 W

100 W
Posts: 117
Joined: Mar 11 2011 3:46pm
Location: Marseille, France

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by romelec » Jun 03 2020 6:26am

The motor has less power at low RPM and it is normal, it's easy to reach the maximum motor current when going slower.
I think the motor current can be displayed on the LCD.

That's the consequence of having a controller that will not destroy itself or the motor when going slow :lol:

brushless   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Jun 03 2020 6:16am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by brushless » Jun 03 2020 6:37am

Possible issue (850C, tsdz2 36V, OSF 1.0.0, 36V Battery):
Battery menu: Max current: It can be modified, but after a display or battery shutdown, the default value 16 ampere is always displayed and used (my input 15 is ignored). The other values in the battery menu (i.e. low cut-off) work as expected (are saved).

vshitikov   10 W

10 W
Posts: 94
Joined: Mar 05 2020 7:24am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by vshitikov » Jun 03 2020 8:27am

HughF wrote:
Jun 03 2020 6:25am
andyme wrote:
Jun 03 2020 3:41am
Yesterday i suddenly encountered a short, steep uphill road in the dark. When I realised that the gear would not be sufficient, I quickly pushed the assistance from 8 to 13 while already climbing. I would have expected to get more support, but actually I did not feel this. I hardly made it up to the top of the road and my impression was the motor did not want to react to the increased assistance level, I the contrary, it hardly did anything, was my feeling. I was surprised about this behaviour, I think in the past that would have worked this way...? :roll:
Later I had a somewhat similar situation but I was able to shift down and get more cadence and the support of the motor was there again.

Is it possible that the motor has problems to support under pressure with low cadence?

I am using torque mode.
I don't get much assistance at all below level 13, you should try the same hill again with a higher assistance level still - you should easily be able to get 750w out of the motor with low cadence on the pedals. And the new code is able to pump more motor current at low RPM compared with 0.6.8 and such... Hill climbing performance is very good for me on 1.0.0, and I don't have gears at all!
That's where it gets confusing. According to Casainho the 1.0 version performace is strictly identical to previous ones at the cadence lower than 90rpm. I haven't upgraded yet 1.0 because I don't care for power but I need a range as I tour on my cargo bike with two kids and I need to have up to 100km range with two batteries. So I would not want any loss of efficiency under 90rpm. I didn't look in the code yet.

HughF   100 W

100 W
Posts: 219
Joined: Jan 23 2020 6:13pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by HughF » Jun 03 2020 10:42am

vshitikov wrote:
Jun 03 2020 8:27am
HughF wrote:
Jun 03 2020 6:25am
andyme wrote:
Jun 03 2020 3:41am
Yesterday i suddenly encountered a short, steep uphill road in the dark. When I realised that the gear would not be sufficient, I quickly pushed the assistance from 8 to 13 while already climbing. I would have expected to get more support, but actually I did not feel this. I hardly made it up to the top of the road and my impression was the motor did not want to react to the increased assistance level, I the contrary, it hardly did anything, was my feeling. I was surprised about this behaviour, I think in the past that would have worked this way...? :roll:
Later I had a somewhat similar situation but I was able to shift down and get more cadence and the support of the motor was there again.

Is it possible that the motor has problems to support under pressure with low cadence?

I am using torque mode.
I don't get much assistance at all below level 13, you should try the same hill again with a higher assistance level still - you should easily be able to get 750w out of the motor with low cadence on the pedals. And the new code is able to pump more motor current at low RPM compared with 0.6.8 and such... Hill climbing performance is very good for me on 1.0.0, and I don't have gears at all!
That's where it gets confusing. According to Casainho the 1.0 version performace is strictly identical to previous ones at the cadence lower than 90rpm. I haven't upgraded yet 1.0 because I don't care for power but I need a range as I tour on my cargo bike with two kids and I need to have up to 100km range with two batteries. So I would not want any loss of efficiency under 90rpm. I didn't look in the code yet.
I'm convinced the low cadence performance is far superior to 0.6.8 that I was running before - I test on the same really steep, long hill and 1.0.0 is much better for me at maintaining motor power as the cadence drops off. I don't think my legs have got that much stronger over a couple of weeks.
Genesis iOiD Alfine8 Hard tail MTB, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display
Raleigh reynolds road frame from the 80's, TSDZ2, SW102 display, 1x10 drivetrain, gravel tyres

cavi   10 W

10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Jan 20 2020 7:00pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by cavi » Jun 03 2020 11:19am

brushless wrote:
Jun 03 2020 6:37am
Possible issue (850C, tsdz2 36V, OSF 1.0.0, 36V Battery):
Battery menu: Max current: It can be modified, but after a display or battery shutdown, the default value 16 ampere is always displayed and used (my input 15 is ignored). The other values in the battery menu (i.e. low cut-off) work as expected (are saved).
Seems to me this is something we would want changed in a future firmware update so we do not have to reset it every time we unplug. Although I do not know if that is possible...

cavi   10 W

10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Jan 20 2020 7:00pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by cavi » Jun 03 2020 6:43pm

One other software issue that bugs me is that the trip meter resets every time you kill the power. Many times on a ride I will stop and turn off the bike and then when I restart the trip meter has reset....... Could we possibly change this for next firmware, then maybe like the BBSHD press both up and down at once and it would reset?

feyris   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 33
Joined: Nov 21 2009 6:24am
Location: Biarritz, France

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by feyris » Jun 04 2020 9:21am

izeman wrote:
Jun 02 2020 2:54am
vshitikov wrote:
Jun 02 2020 2:43am
This handling is not ideal but I guess it's the only one possible if you don't have a smart BMS that communicates with your display.
If that really is the case, then i'd call it useless (for my application). For battery life, I very seldemly charge to 100% (or even 90%). I try to keep my SOC at 50% and then top up a little and only fully charge if i'm unsure about the needed capacity.
Building an internal table that relates every (loaded) voltage to a specific SOC would at least give a very good estimate, that would need recalibration every now and then.
Let's say you have entered a 1000Wh battery, and 60V 100% SOC, with a LVC of 42V. And as you count Wh, note the voltage at 100Wh used (90%), then 200Wh (80%) used etc.
I know this is very simplified and getting the exact voltage is difficult, but you would get at least a rough guess. Showing a 80% charged battery as EMPTY, just because you didn't charge over the threshold??
Or if nothing else you could use predefined discharge curves for li-ion, li-fepo4, li-mn etc and rely on unloaded voltage only (still for a rought guess)
I'm use my battery the same way you do.
I don't like keeping it charged so I often charge it to 60 or 70% unless I realy need a full charge
My bms is bluetooth so I prefer to use the app to have an accurate soc reading.

User avatar
izeman   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5107
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by izeman » Jun 04 2020 10:40am

feyris wrote:
Jun 04 2020 9:21am
I'm use my battery the same way you do.
I don't like keeping it charged so I often charge it to 60 or 70% unless I realy need a full charge
My bms is bluetooth so I prefer to use the app to have an accurate soc reading.
The accuracy given by this smartbms could easily acchieved (at least for li-ion/mn packs) by defining the very same 5 voltage in 20% steps in TSDZ2 firmware, and interpolate all values in between. This really is more than enough to have a pretty good guess.
You could do it even more accurate and let the TSDZ2 generate those voltage. Enter the correct pack Ah, and then note the voltages after 80% of Ah is left, 60% and so on ... Build a small table with 10-20 values and voila.

Veko   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Apr 15 2020 1:49am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Veko » Jun 04 2020 11:46am

I finally got the parts delivered for flashing the display and motor controller after a 2 month wait! I flashed both successfully, but would like a confirmation about the motor vs battery voltage before plugging the battery in. Is it so that the OSF automatically can run with different voltage batteries without flashing firmware again for different voltage setups?

Would there be any point in enabling the experimental high cadence mode now that field weakening is working? My aim is to get best efficiency possible with 36V motor and 52V battery, and I don't care that much about absolute top power.

User avatar
mallesepp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: May 05 2020 11:07am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by mallesepp » Jun 04 2020 11:59am

Veko wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:46am
I finally got the parts delivered for flashing the display and motor controller after a 2 month wait! I flashed both successfully, but would like a confirmation about the motor vs battery voltage before plugging the battery in. Is it so that the OSF automatically can run with different voltage batteries without flashing firmware again for different voltage setups?

Would there be any point in enabling the experimental high cadence mode now that field weakening is working? My aim is to get best efficiency possible with 36V motor and 52V battery, and I don't care that much about absolute top power.
You can choose the battery voltage after installing the firmware! There is only 1 firmware version for all voltages.
In the latest version 1.0.0 there is no experimental high cadence mode!
You can only activate field weakening in the Motor menu!
Last edited by mallesepp on Jun 04 2020 12:04pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hardtail Canyon AL 6.0 (2014) TSDZ2 36V 10S5P 860C
RaceBike Canyon AL 9.0 Di2 (2011) Humanpower 200 Watt/120 Minuten
Garmin Edge 1030+, bePro Powermeter, Garmin Edge Remote

Veko   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Apr 15 2020 1:49am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Veko » Jun 04 2020 12:02pm

mallesepp wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:59am
You can choose the battery voltage after installing the firmware! There is only 1 firmware version for all voltages.
In the latest version 1.0.0 there is no experimental high cadence mode!
Thanks for clearing it up! Now on to installing a temperature sensor and thermal pads before rigging everything up to the bike, going to be exciting weekend :)

cavi   10 W

10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Jan 20 2020 7:00pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by cavi » Jun 04 2020 12:19pm

mallesepp wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:59am
Veko wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:46am
I finally got the parts delivered for flashing the display and motor controller after a 2 month wait! I flashed both successfully, but would like a confirmation about the motor vs battery voltage before plugging the battery in. Is it so that the OSF automatically can run with different voltage batteries without flashing firmware again for different voltage setups?

Would there be any point in enabling the experimental high cadence mode now that field weakening is working? My aim is to get best efficiency possible with 36V motor and 52V battery, and I don't care that much about absolute top power.
You can choose the battery voltage after installing the firmware! There is only 1 firmware version for all voltages.
In the latest version 1.0.0 there is no experimental high cadence mode!
You can only activate field weakening in the Motor menu!
Excuse the ignorance, but what does the field weakening do?

Veko   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Apr 15 2020 1:49am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Veko » Jun 04 2020 2:23pm

I encountered error message "Error Brakes" on the first boot. I searched the forums and found casainho's post earlier this year indicating it might also be related to TX error as well as to brakes. This leads me to think that my harness wiring might be wrong, but looking at it, I can't really find error on my end. My TSDZ2 has a 8 pin male connector, so I wired 1T4 bafang 8 pin cable to a female 8 pin connector according to a post I found on another thread. I checked Bafang wiring diagram and the wiki wiring diagram and couldn't find errors in the wiring shown below in the image. Any idea what might be the problem?

Image
Image

The display and motor firmware updates were successfull on the first round. I tried to flash both again for the second time, but same error persists.

During the display flashing process, at first it didn't work when CP2102 was wired according to the picture as shown in wiki (TX to RX, RX to TX), so I reversed it and the update process worked after that. Could it be that TX and RX wires are somehow reversed in my 860C cable?

casainho   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5028
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by casainho » Jun 04 2020 2:32pm

Veko wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:23pm
During the display flashing process, at first it didn't work when CP2102 was wired according to the picture as shown in wiki (TX to RX, RX to TX), so I reversed it and the update process worked after that. Could it be that TX and RX wires are somehow reversed in my 860C cable?
You can try reverse. Other users reversed by mistake and there was no issue at all with the display, so, I think is a good bet for you.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

User avatar
mallesepp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: May 05 2020 11:07am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by mallesepp » Jun 04 2020 2:41pm

cavi wrote:
Jun 04 2020 12:19pm
mallesepp wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:59am
Veko wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:46am
I finally got the parts delivered for flashing the display and motor controller after a 2 month wait! I flashed both successfully, but would like a confirmation about the motor vs battery voltage before plugging the battery in. Is it so that the OSF automatically can run with different voltage batteries without flashing firmware again for different voltage setups?

Would there be any point in enabling the experimental high cadence mode now that field weakening is working? My aim is to get best efficiency possible with 36V motor and 52V battery, and I don't care that much about absolute top power.
You can choose the battery voltage after installing the firmware! There is only 1 firmware version for all voltages.
In the latest version 1.0.0 there is no experimental high cadence mode!
You can only activate field weakening in the Motor menu!
Excuse the ignorance, but what does the field weakening do?
You can read all of this in the wiki:
"The field weakening function increases the cadence of the motor (up to 120 rpm if possible), but also has a power loss of about 25% if the field weakening is activated automatically (if the PWM value is higher than 100)."
Hardtail Canyon AL 6.0 (2014) TSDZ2 36V 10S5P 860C
RaceBike Canyon AL 9.0 Di2 (2011) Humanpower 200 Watt/120 Minuten
Garmin Edge 1030+, bePro Powermeter, Garmin Edge Remote

cyclehorizon   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Jun 04 2020 1:51pm
Contact:

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by cyclehorizon » Jun 04 2020 2:49pm

Hello, if I install OSf on 850C with TSDZ2,can I go back and réinstall the original software on the 850C if I don't like the OSF?if yes where I can find the stock software?

Nfer   10 W

10 W
Posts: 84
Joined: Sep 17 2019 6:51am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Nfer » Jun 04 2020 3:47pm

cyclehorizon wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:49pm
Hello, if I install OSf on 850C with TSDZ2,can I go back and réinstall the original software on the 850C if I don't like the OSF?if yes where I can find the stock software?
here

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... jMrpW2ZqvH

cavi   10 W

10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Jan 20 2020 7:00pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by cavi » Jun 04 2020 4:12pm

mallesepp wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:41pm
cavi wrote:
Jun 04 2020 12:19pm
mallesepp wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:59am
Veko wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:46am
I finally got the parts delivered for flashing the display and motor controller after a 2 month wait! I flashed both successfully, but would like a confirmation about the motor vs battery voltage before plugging the battery in. Is it so that the OSF automatically can run with different voltage batteries without flashing firmware again for different voltage setups?

Would there be any point in enabling the experimental high cadence mode now that field weakening is working? My aim is to get best efficiency possible with 36V motor and 52V battery, and I don't care that much about absolute top power.
You can choose the battery voltage after installing the firmware! There is only 1 firmware version for all voltages.
In the latest version 1.0.0 there is no experimental high cadence mode!
You can only activate field weakening in the Motor menu!
Excuse the ignorance, but what does the field weakening do?
You can read all of this in the wiki:
"The field weakening function increases the cadence of the motor (up to 120 rpm if possible), but also has a power loss of about 25% if the field weakening is activated automatically (if the PWM value is higher than 100)."
Yeah, I read that and it is still Greek... ok so it feeds power even if the cadance goes over what would be the normal max?

andyme   100 W

100 W
Posts: 218
Joined: Oct 04 2017 1:40pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by andyme » Jun 04 2020 5:06pm

Guys, i have a question:

today i received the bootloader programmer and flashed my brandnew 860C. Worked out great after i realised that there is a specific firmware for the 860C (took me hours.... :lol: )

I now will install the 850C on my girlfriends bike. It has been programmed with ST-Link in the past, and i thought, since i now have the bootloader option, i may as well use that in the future. So i soldered the original plug back on color by color, no mistake here.

I then connected it to the bootloader programmer and tried to flash the file for the 850. it did not work....i pushed the power button, the display went on and the software kept waiting for the display...

is it that once you have used ST-Link you cannot switch to bootloader? Has it been distroyed?

vshitikov   10 W

10 W
Posts: 94
Joined: Mar 05 2020 7:24am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by vshitikov » Jun 04 2020 5:09pm

Veko wrote:
Jun 04 2020 11:46am
I finally got the parts delivered for flashing the display and motor controller after a 2 month wait! I flashed both successfully, but would like a confirmation about the motor vs battery voltage before plugging the battery in. Is it so that the OSF automatically can run with different voltage batteries without flashing firmware again for different voltage setups?

Would there be any point in enabling the experimental high cadence mode now that field weakening is working? My aim is to get best efficiency possible with 36V motor and 52V battery, and I don't care that much about absolute top power.
I think that if you wanted the best efficiency than it should be 36V Motor and 36V battery, or at least 48 Motor and 48V battery.

User avatar
izeman   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5107
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by izeman » Jun 05 2020 2:15am

cavi wrote:
Jun 04 2020 4:12pm
Yeah, I read that and it is still Greek... ok so it feeds power even if the cadance goes over what would be the normal max?
Basically yes. The motor runs faster than it would normally with the given voltage.

Veko   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Apr 15 2020 1:49am

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by Veko » Jun 05 2020 3:48am

casainho wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:32pm
Veko wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:23pm
During the display flashing process, at first it didn't work when CP2102 was wired according to the picture as shown in wiki (TX to RX, RX to TX), so I reversed it and the update process worked after that. Could it be that TX and RX wires are somehow reversed in my 860C cable?
You can try reverse. Other users reversed by mistake and there was no issue at all with the display, so, I think is a good bet for you.
Reversed them and now everything works! Strange that those would be reversed in the display cable. Anyways, now on to installing all of it on the bike :)

skestans   100 W

100 W
Posts: 167
Joined: Jul 12 2019 12:42am
Location: Switzerland

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by skestans » Jun 05 2020 9:41am

Nfer wrote:
cyclehorizon wrote:
Jun 04 2020 2:49pm
Hello, if I install OSf on 850C with TSDZ2,can I go back and réinstall the original software on the 850C if I don't like the OSF?if yes where I can find the stock software?
here

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... jMrpW2ZqvH
I heard that when putting back the original firmware after flashing the open source one, the display stays stuck on a white screen. You can put the OSF back and it’ll be fine but you can’t use the oem again after using the OSF.

Did you get different results?

cavi   10 W

10 W
Posts: 79
Joined: Jan 20 2020 7:00pm

Re: TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Post by cavi » Jun 05 2020 8:47pm

Soo today my cables arrived and I learned how to upgrade the firmware so now I am on the newest. I really like it alot, very smooth, feels like it should.
There are only 2 issues I think would be great to correct. 1: throttle, it seems that the throttle is tied to the assist level, or it feels that way, it does not seem to give me full power. Maybe I have it set wrong?
2: trip distance. It would be nice if it did not reset when you turned off the power. As sometimes you have to reboot mid ride....

Post Reply