TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

Rydon said:
Davo said:
I also noted the Eco-Bikes have lots of different cables (1T1, 1T2, etc https://www.eco-ebike.com/search?q=1T1). Would I need one of these cables to programme the 860C or the TSDZ2? If not, what are these cables for?

1T1 is if you only have a display. 1T2 adds throttle. 1T3 and 1T4 add one or two brake cutoff sensors. Alternately, you can do what most do, just cut the ones you don't use off of a 1T4 or ziptie them out of the way.

Not quite...

1T1 - Motor to Display (no throttle or ebrakes)
1T2 - Motor to Display and Throttle (no ebrake sensors)
1T3 - Motor to Display and Ebrake Sensors (no throttle)
1T4 - Motor to Display, Throttle, and Ebrakes

1T3 is for a display and brake sensors. No throttle. 1T3 is perfect for if you have a temp sensor installed, and cannot use throttle anyway. It is highly recommend to use ebrake sensors with OSF.

If you do cut the wires on a 1T4, it is good practice to stagger them so there is no possiblity of shorting the wires. 1T3 is a little cleaner...
 

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HughF said:
M4ttgreen said:
Sorry didn't see this thread as I had orginally posted this in the tsdz2 thread. I have looked through the instructions and it doesn't seem to mention this error(picture attached) as anyone had this it know of a fix
Wait, is that a screenshot, of a photo, of a screen? #recursiveexplode

Hi Hugh

Yes it is for some reason it wouldn't let me upload the photo but when I took a screenshot it uploaded.
 
eyebyesickle said:
Rydon said:
Davo said:
I also noted the Eco-Bikes have lots of different cables (1T1, 1T2, etc https://www.eco-ebike.com/search?q=1T1). Would I need one of these cables to programme the 860C or the TSDZ2? If not, what are these cables for?

1T1 is if you only have a display. 1T2 adds throttle. 1T3 and 1T4 add one or two brake cutoff sensors. Alternately, you can do what most do, just cut the ones you don't use off of a 1T4 or ziptie them out of the way.

Not quite...

1T1 - Motor to Display (no throttle or ebrakes)
1T2 - Motor to Display and Throttle (no ebrake sensors)
1T3 - Motor to Display and Ebrake Sensors (no throttle)
1T4 - Motor to Display, Throttle, and Ebrakes

1T3 is for a display and brake sensors. No throttle. 1T3 is perfect for if you have a temp sensor installed, and cannot use throttle anyway. It is highly recommend to use ebrake sensors with OSF.

If you do cut the wires on a 1T4, it is good practice to stagger them so there is no possiblity of shorting the wires. 1T3 is a little cleaner...
Many thanks for the replies and all the information.

It seems like the 1T3 is the one for me. What is the recommended temp sensor for the TSDZ2 and where/how is this fitted?
 
Davo said:
eyebyesickle said:
Rydon said:
Davo said:
I also noted the Eco-Bikes have lots of different cables (1T1, 1T2, etc https://www.eco-ebike.com/search?q=1T1). Would I need one of these cables to programme the 860C or the TSDZ2? If not, what are these cables for?

1T1 is if you only have a display. 1T2 adds throttle. 1T3 and 1T4 add one or two brake cutoff sensors. Alternately, you can do what most do, just cut the ones you don't use off of a 1T4 or ziptie them out of the way.

Not quite...

1T1 - Motor to Display (no throttle or ebrakes)
1T2 - Motor to Display and Throttle (no ebrake sensors)
1T3 - Motor to Display and Ebrake Sensors (no throttle)
1T4 - Motor to Display, Throttle, and Ebrakes

1T3 is for a display and brake sensors. No throttle. 1T3 is perfect for if you have a temp sensor installed, and cannot use throttle anyway. It is highly recommend to use ebrake sensors with OSF.

If you do cut the wires on a 1T4, it is good practice to stagger them so there is no possiblity of shorting the wires. 1T3 is a little cleaner...
Many thanks for the replies and all the information.

It seems like the 1T3 is the one for me. What is the recommended temp sensor for the TSDZ2 and where/how is this fitted?


https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-install-motor-temperature-sensor
 
Hello Everyone, thanks for this amazing project @casainho . I need some help. I have read the wiki and check this forum to find a solution for my problem without success.
When I try to update the 850C with the lastest firmware the version 1.0 of the flexible open firmware the apt-burn tools always stuck on the same percentage while is updating the screen. It, stuck on 86% and then stops As you can see in this video.

[youtube]uXzR9A3nFE0[/youtube]

In my test, I double check the wiring, (I have reversed TX-RX on my bootloaderbox, but doesn´t help and will not begin to update with reversed tx-rx)
I have the lastest version for the screen: 850C_v1.0.0-bootloader.bin
I update the driver for the CP210x bridge to the lastest version
I have tried on two different computer
I have tried to install and older version of the firmware but it stuck too on diferent percentage.

Anyone can help me? I didn´t find somenthing similar on the forum. Sorry if not the right place to ask for help. thanks again.
 
moriwaky said:
Anyone can help me? I didn´t find somenthing similar on the forum. Sorry if not the right place to ask for help. thanks again.
I think you are doing everything correct. I would say you have an older version of 850C that has lower flash memory size and the firmware flash stops but there is no error details about that fail.
 
casainho said:
moriwaky said:
Anyone can help me? I didn´t find somenthing similar on the forum. Sorry if not the right place to ask for help. thanks again.
I think you are doing everything correct. I would say you have an older version of 850C that has lower flash memory size and the firmware flash stops but there is no error details about that fail.

Have I need to buy another 850c? I was suspecting is too old because I bought it on Aug 2017. I didn´t know the were diferent versions of 850c by the way.

So I think the best solution will be to buy a 860C so It will be newer. thanks for the quick answer, You are the man!! Adios
 
In V1.0.0 I want to make the torque sensor as sensitive as possible so I have asked these questions below.

I guessed at (1) (Nfer) gave it a shot at (2) Rydon gave it a shot at (3)
(Hughf) gave some good advice with other settings that can help. :bigthumb:

If Casainho or anyone else has some input please let us know?

Under motor,
(1) Minimum current value (in ACD steps), keeps motor engaged with light pedal pressure.
What does a higher number setting do compared to a lower number setting?
The higher the # the higher the power when pedaling very lightly. (just a guess)

Under torque sensor,
(2) Torque ACD threshold value, if you keep your feet on the pedals.
What does a higher number setting do compared to a lower number setting?
The higher the # 10-15 recommended, the more sensitivity at startup without rotation. (Nfer)

Under torque sensor,
(3) Coaster Brake ACD steps, sensitivity of coaster brake.
What does a higher number setting do compared to a lower number setting?
The higher the # the less resistance when you pedal back to apply the coaster brake. (Rydon)
 
vass said:
Davo said:
eyebyesickle said:
Rydon said:
1T1 is if you only have a display. 1T2 adds throttle. 1T3 and 1T4 add one or two brake cutoff sensors. Alternately, you can do what most do, just cut the ones you don't use off of a 1T4 or ziptie them out of the way.

Not quite...

1T1 - Motor to Display (no throttle or ebrakes)
1T2 - Motor to Display and Throttle (no ebrake sensors)
1T3 - Motor to Display and Ebrake Sensors (no throttle)
1T4 - Motor to Display, Throttle, and Ebrakes

1T3 is for a display and brake sensors. No throttle. 1T3 is perfect for if you have a temp sensor installed, and cannot use throttle anyway. It is highly recommend to use ebrake sensors with OSF.

If you do cut the wires on a 1T4, it is good practice to stagger them so there is no possiblity of shorting the wires. 1T3 is a little cleaner...
Many thanks for the replies and all the information.

It seems like the 1T3 is the one for me. What is the recommended temp sensor for the TSDZ2 and where/how is this fitted?


https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-install-motor-temperature-sensor
Thanks vass 👍🏼 I'll find my way around eventually!
 
casainho said:
xyrus said:
I found this drive on aliexpress from the seller EUNORAU which seems to be a respectable one. They offer a TSDZ2 with a 850C display and multicable for brakes.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32821670861.html

Would this work? Finding the pinout one my own and contributing back to community would not be problem. Just have to be sure these are the right parts, as I cant find another seller that sells this package on aliexpress.

It's not even that much cheaper but I do like the idea of skipping the cable splicing part.
Should work.

Contrary to what Casainho says I would question on what do they sell. Why 860c Display with Tongsheng motor? 860c is for Bafang. Unless they know about the opensource firmware and created the hardware themselves to accomodate our needs. I have only heard of ECO-cycles who sell the motor with the preinstalled firmware. I see only 2 orders. People here use PSWPOWER which is very reliable seller on aliexpress.
 
vshitikov said:
casainho said:
xyrus said:
I found this drive on aliexpress from the seller EUNORAU which seems to be a respectable one. They offer a TSDZ2 with a 850C display and multicable for brakes.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32821670861.html

Would this work? Finding the pinout one my own and contributing back to community would not be problem. Just have to be sure these are the right parts, as I cant find another seller that sells this package on aliexpress.

It's not even that much cheaper but I do like the idea of skipping the cable splicing part.
Should work.

Contrary to what Casainho says I would question on what do they sell. Why 860c Display with Tongsheng motor? 860c is for Bafang. Unless they know about the opensource firmware and created the hardware themselves to accomodate our needs. I have only heard of ECO-cycles who sell the motor with the preinstalled firmware. I see only 2 orders. People here use PSWPOWER which is very reliable seller on aliexpress.
Take a look to the ebr review of their kit

https://youtu.be/OKsUiT8Ibxg
 
vshitikov said:
casainho said:
xyrus said:
I found this drive on aliexpress from the seller EUNORAU which seems to be a respectable one. They offer a TSDZ2 with a 850C display and multicable for brakes.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32821670861.html

Would this work? Finding the pinout one my own and contributing back to community would not be problem. Just have to be sure these are the right parts, as I cant find another seller that sells this package on aliexpress.

It's not even that much cheaper but I do like the idea of skipping the cable splicing part.
Should work.

Contrary to what Casainho says I would question on what do they sell. Why 860c Display with Tongsheng motor? 860c is for Bafang. Unless they know about the opensource firmware and created the hardware themselves to accomodate our needs. I have only heard of ECO-cycles who sell the motor with the preinstalled firmware. I see only 2 orders. People here use PSWPOWER which is very reliable seller on aliexpress.

https://www.electrifybike.com stocks and sales the TSDZ2 with the OSF firmware already installed and you have a choice of an 850C or an 860C.
 
jeff.page.rides said:
https://www.electrifybike.com stocks and sales the TSDZ2 with the OSF firmware already installed and you have a choice of an 850C or an 860C.
The delivery charge into the EU kills his kit. Which is a bloody shame. He was a long time ago going to set up an EU source for his kit? And any outstanding VAT immediately clobbers you with paying 20% on whatever the declared value is plus the collection charge. The total can easily double the delivery charge. The Chinese get round EU vat regulations with their DPP service but that sounds too clever by half although it works for now.

There is another of these TSDZ2 kits with an 850C display from EJOYQI which is a 6 pin connection unlike EUNORAU which is 5 pin; the extra pin going into the display is the brake which does nothing. I’ve never seen a 6 pin 850C on sale to the EU and EJOYQI do not offer it separately. I haven’t yet tried to flash the motor and display. The motor does work as it is
 
jeff.page.rides said:
In V1.0.0 I want to make the torque sensor as sensitive as possible so I have asked these questions below.

I guessed at (1) (Nfer) gave it a shot at (2) Rydon gave it a shot at (3)
(Hughf) gave some good advice with other settings that can help. :bigthumb:

If Casainho or anyone else has some input please let us know?

Under motor,
(1) Minimum current value (in ACD steps), keeps motor engaged with light pedal pressure.
What does a higher number setting do compared to a lower number setting?
The higher the # the higher the power when pedaling very lightly. (just a guess)

Under torque sensor,
(2) Torque ACD threshold value, if you keep your feet on the pedals.
What does a higher number setting do compared to a lower number setting?
The higher the # 10-15 recommended, the more sensitivity at startup without rotation. (Nfer)

Under torque sensor,
(3) Coaster Brake ACD steps, sensitivity of coaster brake.
What does a higher number setting do compared to a lower number setting?
The higher the # the less resistance when you pedal back to apply the coaster brake. (Rydon)

luckily yesterday was over cast with light sprinkle, normally it's hot and sunny by 10 AM. So I was able to ride around before it got too hot and try a bunch of different setting.

Motor,
min current ACD step #12 worked best.
motor control torque seamed to work a little better then power.

Torque sensor,
torque ADC threshold #5 worked best.
coaster brake ACD #9 worked best.

(1) It seem to be the same no matter where I put the settings. When I start from the dead stop it shutters or skips for the first half to full rotation before it goes smoothly, or it has no power for 2 full rotations.

(2) It seem to be the same no matter where I put the settings. It has less low end torque than the version 20 for the LCD3. The power doesn't start to come on until you're at least at 60 RPM and then by the time you hit 80 RPM's it pulls very hard up 105 RPM's which is as fast as I can pedal, with field weakening disabled.

Does anyone know how to get it to start without shuttering and have more low end torque I really would like to know how to do that?

Thanks,
Jeff
 
Jeff, do you have assistance without pedal rotation enabled?
 
HughF said:
Jeff, do you have assistance without pedal rotation enabled?

I tried it both ways, one way schutters and then starts to go the other way the power doesn't start for at least 2 rotations.
 
Benoit said:
HughF said:
You found and fixed the bug in the boost logic?

I read the code but I don't understand what could be wrong for now. I don't have enough time currently, maybe next two weeks I'll can investigate more as I'll be in holiday (but without testing as I won't have my bike with me).

I suggested a couple pages back that there is a problem with the way ui16_target_current was being used and set. This could explain problems with throttle control, boost, and other functions using this variable.

I am considering giving up on this project lately as it seems to be severely limited by the motor capability. For my applications, I find it underpowered, and too easy to overheat. Nearly every ride, I find myself wishing it was just a BBSHD.

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to try and improve cooling on such a poor design.
 
gatorsean said:
I am considering giving up on this project lately as it seems to be severely limited by the motor capability. For my applications, I find it underpowered, and too easy to overheat. Nearly every ride, I find myself wishing it was just a BBSHD.

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to try and improve cooling on such a poor design.

Naturally it depends on how and where you ride you're bike. I've been surprised how little the TSDZ2 heats on my second project, a full-suspension semi-fat bike. I use a 36V motor with 52V battery, and only simple cooling mods.

Here in the north the ambient temperature on warmest days is around 30C, and even those days I haven't seen the motor temp to rise much above 50C riding on difficult trails with near maximum power. I even tried to use the virtual throttle on roads for a while to use the full power and couldn't get the temp to rise significantly. I also tested the sensor accuracy before installing. On the trails around here are no long steep ascents so perhaps those would eventually cause overheating.

Someone else here mentioned similar experience with the 36V motor and 52V battery, so that might be the major solution for overheating. Personally I feel that the build quality and loose mechanical tolerances are the biggest drawback of this motor.
 
jeff.page.rides said:
HughF said:
Jeff, do you have assistance without pedal rotation enabled?

I tried it both ways, one way schutters and then starts to go the other way the power doesn't start for at least 2 rotations.
Yep, it stutters for me too, but because I always ride at a very high assist level (13 by default on my sw102), I find it gets me going very quickly away from the lights and the stuttering soon disappears within 1/2 crank rotation. If you've set things up as per my settings I posted a good few pages back, I can't think of anything else except trying the high current ramp fork that user r0mko made back in April.

I think awop+torque mode should be the default for these motors. EVERYONE comes into here to complain about the lack of assistance when starting out, and the lack of assistance below a certain cadence.
 
gatorsean said:
Benoit said:
HughF said:
You found and fixed the bug in the boost logic?

I read the code but I don't understand what could be wrong for now. I don't have enough time currently, maybe next two weeks I'll can investigate more as I'll be in holiday (but without testing as I won't have my bike with me).

I suggested a couple pages back that there is a problem with the way ui16_target_current was being used and set. This could explain problems with throttle control, boost, and other functions using this variable.

I am considering giving up on this project lately as it seems to be severely limited by the motor capability. For my applications, I find it underpowered, and too easy to overheat. Nearly every ride, I find myself wishing it was just a BBSHD.

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to try and improve cooling on such a poor design.

No heat issues here, no cooling mods, no temp sensor, everything maxed out. Done 1000km over lockdown with zero issues. Your application must involve hauling some serious weight.
 
gatorsean said:
I am considering giving up on this project lately as it seems to be severely limited by the motor capability. For my applications, I find it underpowered, and too easy to overheat. Nearly every ride, I find myself wishing it was just a BBSHD.

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to try and improve cooling on such a poor design.

Haha, yes perhaps you should have bought a BBSHD. I ride both for different reasons. I only run the TSDZ2 for short bursts above 500 watts for short hills or for a burst of speed in traffic. Those of us that ride and love the TSDZ2 tend to like the lighter weight, the torque sensing, and aren't out for maximum speed. We still want to get some exercise cycling while making the hills easier and going a little faster. The TSDZ2 is pretty sweet for that and a joy to ride.

But when I want to ride fast at 30+ MPH or tackle long steep hills mountain biking, I take the 5 lb heavier BBSHD. It's a beast and I Iove it too. :)
 
I need some help from users with e-brakes. I did not find the info on wiki.

I had to buy a new controller since mine is dead. I bought a 8 pin controller now that has throttle and ebrakes support.
I use the custom firmware with temperature sensor connected to the throttle, so I will use the throttle wires to solder the temp sensor. I do not use ebrakes.

My question is what I can do so the software does not cut the motor power due to missing ebrakes? Is it enough to cut and isolate the wires?
 
maximusdm said:
I need some help from users with e-brakes. I did not find the info on wiki.

I had to buy a new controller since mine is dead. I bought a 8 pin controller now that has throttle and ebrakes support.
I use the custom firmware with temperature sensor connected to the throttle, so I will use the throttle wires to solder the temp sensor. I do not use ebrakes.

My question is what I can do so the software does not cut the motor power due to missing ebrakes? Is it enough to cut and isolate the wires?

I also have the 8 pin driver and using throttle pin for the temp sensor. I have insulated the brake wire in the wire loom and left it disconnected. It's active-low so as long as it's floating and not grounded the controller should not think the brakes are applied and work as usual. Mine does.
 
I just setup the motor/temp sensor with the 860c display and did the OSF update to v1.0.0. The temp reading is correct in F but the graph seems to have converted the y axis value with a multipler as if it was a value in C and I ended up with the number like 180.
 
HughF said:
jeff.page.rides said:
HughF said:
Jeff, do you have assistance without pedal rotation enabled?

I tried it both ways, one way schutters and then starts to go the other way the power doesn't start for at least 2 rotations.
Yep, it stutters for me too, but because I always ride at a very high assist level (13 by default on my sw102), I find it gets me going very quickly away from the lights and the stuttering soon disappears within 1/2 crank rotation. If you've set things up as per my settings I posted a good few pages back, I can't think of anything else except trying the high current ramp fork that user r0mko made back in April.

I think awop+torque mode should be the default for these motors. EVERYONE comes into here to complain about the lack of assistance when starting out, and the lack of assistance below a certain cadence.

I attached my CHEAT SHEET that I use when I'm on my hand-cycle that has all my current settings.
If you see anything that would help with torque on the low end let me know?
View attachment Share Handcycle, Basic TSDZ2 motor controller firmware version 1.0.0.rtf
THANKS,
Jeff
 
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