Speedict neptune lite

speedict said:
barbarossa said:
speedict said:
100A restriction, both APK and Firmware (for 8 x 1mOhm resistors)
=========================================================
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FLWt8k-iBluBcwtLjdzp6hszLfCLsZpr


Danny
Click to expand...

hey Danny,

perfect. values are normal again and limitation is gone. weather is very bad outside so i could only do a short test ride in our underground car park. i could only go up to around 50 Amps and i almost drove against the wall :( cant wait until weather is a little better outside to check it out completely (temperature, higher Amps, voltage sag at higher Amps, cut off at lower Amps, etc.).

with my 8x resistors i only have a total of 5W max loss at my theoretical max at 100A and not 10W max loss with the default 4x resistors. that is absolutely ok for me.

i was really very, very happy with my speedict neptune 15 before. but now, hey, i am really impressed. it is amazing and it is like i wanted to have it from the beginning. it is more than perfect !!!!!
THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE REALLY GREAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it must be christmas - is this my christmas present ? :lol:

cheers
Click to expand...

barbarossa said:
it must be christmas - is this my christmas present ?
Click to expand...

don't think so, if you can PM me your address, I will send you a real christmas present of one Neptune 15 unit with built-in 4 x 1m Ohm resistor, hope that you can push it to limit.



Danny
Click to expand...

Hey Danny,
yeah, that would be a real Christmas present :bigthumb: thank you !!! what a cool thing !!!!
this would match my next battery built with Sony VTC6 cells perfectly, planned for this winter.

meanwhile i could not resist and went to 70 amps during a short trip outside - it is cold. mosfets went up to 25 degrees. real watt number of 3500 watts is a little more impressive than the half displayed watts before. voltage drop around 4-5 V is also ok. battery is not even fully charged it is only around 54 Volts at the moment. my Neptune 15 modification is relatively new :D
will send a pm :)

cheers & again THANK YOU !!!!!!
 
hey Danny !!!

my christmas present arrived : Neptune 15 BMS with 4x R001 (1mOhm) :bigthumb:

thank you !!!!! especially for the additional cables !!! as if you knew that i need some for connecting the speed sensor :D

wrapped perfectly as usual:
View attachment 1
content:


my first LG HG2 15s5p Reention Dorado Max (max 80 cells) for my Frey AM1000 still runs like a champ with my other Neptune 15 BMS.
i will test the new one as soon as i have finished my second battery pack : Reention Dorado Max with 15s5p Sony VTC6.

anyways at the beginning i thought that such a small BMS would not match with a higher current battery. but after testing my "max amps unrestricted" Neptune 15 BMS (thank you again for the adapted android APK) for a while i must say that i was totally wrong. it can handle all my currents up to around 80A (this test was a little odd) so far and is not even getting warm/hot.

i do not recommend using higher currents using the original Frey AM1000 Reention battery. serial connections eg of the 48v 13s6p are only 2x nickel strips which of course will burn at 60 amps. i tested it for fun at a short burst at over 50 amps, voltage drop was over 15v and getting higher and higher - pack temperature will also be higher. orginal 48v battery pack is not even made for 30 amps current continous, only for 30 amps peaks i think. but of course it is possible to build an own Reention Dorado max battery pack ( empty battery case $65 at aliexpress, $95 total when shipped by DHL express ).

Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cheers
 
...11-12 degrees and sunshine… there are no real winters anymore in central europe...
time to test the modded original Bafang Ultra controller and Neptune 15 BMS (not yet the 1 mOhm version)...nice ride along the countryside...

started with 62.2volts :


warm up with 60A :
Bafang_Ultra_ori_60A_A.JPG


bms memory erased and reduced to 44A:
View attachment 1

i am really happy concerning the temperature… the pack gets warmer due to discharging. but i think thats all... in the long run pack temperature and FET temperature of BMS were almost equal but i did no additional screenshot.
 
Hi

I just installed the neptune 15 on a kick scooter with a new 14S3P battery.

It's a neat unit and fits pretty good in a smallest of space.

Works otherwise fine, but I discovered last night that the charging doesn't begin automatically when the charger is powered up. Only after I recycled power on the speedict did the charging start.

The problem is, I have a timer to turn on the charger and the charging is done overnight at a garage and I'm not supervising that the charging is OK.


Why didn't the charge start as expected but needed a power recycle on Neptune first?

By the way I did try the similar charge process before at my home and then it wasn't necessary to power off the Neptune first.

So does the Neptune need the power off/on only between the charging processes or is it a software bug or so?
 
psatu said:
I just installed the neptune 15 on a kick scooter with a new 14S3P battery.

It's a neat unit and fits pretty good in a smallest of space.

Works otherwise fine, but I discovered last night that the charging doesn't begin automatically when the charger is powered up. Only after I recycled power on the speedict did the charging start.

The problem is, I have a timer to turn on the charger and the charging is done overnight at a garage and I'm not supervising that the charging is OK.


Why didn't the charge start as expected but needed a power recycle on Neptune first?

By the way I did try the similar charge process before at my home and then it wasn't necessary to power off the Neptune first.

So does the Neptune need the power off/on only between the charging processes or is it a software bug or so?
Click to expand...

Both DISCHARGE and CHARGE MOSFETs are turned-ON or re-turned-ON on power start cycle, it is ready for CHARGING, when CHARGE current is detected, it signal as CHARGE job started, whenever no CHARGE CURRENT is detected (because of CHARGER disconnected ?) it's turn-OFF MOSFET, make sure no CHARGE CURRENT can charge to battery, when DISCHARGE CURRENT is detected or POWER Cycle again, CHARGE MOSFET turn-ON again.

Could you please confirm, Neptune is power ON, you then connect your CHARGER (without charge current / turn on because timer not activate yet), and wait for timer on, see if CHARGE job can start.

Danny
 
Yes, I confirm the Speedict was turned on and the charger was turned on as well and was supplying the power to the speedict when I checked the situation this morning.

The charger power LED was lighting and indicated it was powered up but was not charging at that moment. The charging was never started either as the battery voltage was the same as the night before.

I then brought the charger and the scooter at my office and measured the charger in case it was broken. But the charger was fine and supplied the power all time.

I then tested once again charging so that I powered the charger off, connected the charging lead to the speedict and after that I connected the mains lead back to the charger.

The charger powered up but the charging process didn't start anyhow.

I then powered the speedict off and then back on again and only then the charging began.

So it was definetely the speedict which for some reason blocked the charging from beginning.

But why the Neptune didn't allow charging in the first place I don't know.
What is the logic, why the charge doesn't simply start everytime whenever the charger is connected or powered on?

I must conduct some more tests to see if this behaviour is how the Neptune works or only some one time failure.

Of course I can bypass the Neptune altogether and do charging direct to the battery terminals but it is nice to see statistics from the Neptune app how many Ah etc. the battery has been charged.

But if charging through a Neptune charging leads proves to be unreliable I must do just that and connect the charger to the battery leads.
 
on Neptune Android client, connect to Neptune, and go to OPTION -> Feedback, on Feedback page, click to the center Speedict Logo for the System Status info page as attached.

see the 6th column value shown both CHARGE and DISCHARGE MOSFET status, 0x43 mean both DISCHARGE and CHARGE MOSFETs are turned ON, if he see this value and CHARGE not start charging, please let me know.



Danny
 

Attachments

  • status.jpg
    status.jpg
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OK, I'll do that and let you know the results.

By the way does the speed detection circuit accept a signal straight from a motor HAL sensors?

That is 5V signal on a magnet position and 0V otherwise.

The Cycle analyst for example works straight from motor HAL pulses.

But if it is not working how about using solid state relay in between the Motor HAL and Neptune?

The solid state relay would take the 5V input from the motor and then short its output contacts like a normal electromechanical relay. There I should connect the Neptune speed detect leads.

It is a kick sccoter and there is no place to install a magnet speed sensor on the wheel.

The problem might be that wheel is a very small "donut" wheel and there are 16 magnets on a wheel on top of that.

So I should measure the wheel circumference and then divide it by 16 to get the correct wheel circumference.

Thus it produces really many pulses per minute.

Is there any limitation how many pulses per second the Neptune speed detection circuit accepts?
 
Alright, now I tested the charging again and a very strange behaviour happened.

I first connected the charger to the Neptune and powered the charger and everything was fine, the charging began and I let it charge a few minutes and then disconnected the charger from the mains outlet.

I then disconnected the Neptune android client as well to simulate the real case where the charging is done in a garage.

Then after a few minutes rest I started the charging process again. I connected the charger and powered it up and the charging began. But after only a few seconds the charging ceased and there is a message on the Charger Display "Batt voltage too high 61V" !

This is a Cycle Satiator charger which is an intelligent charger and detects the battery status and acts accordingly.

Then gradually, in a few seconds time, the voltage dropped below the Satiator charge voltage threshold and the charging began again and almost instantly the voltage raised to some 61 volts and comes the same message "Bat Voltage too high" and the charging stopped and so on endlessly.

I measured the voltage by a multimeter from a charging connector and it was really high, 62.3 volts. It is a 14S Li-ion battery and the real voltage of the battery was like 52.5V.

Now I think I know what happened the last night when I did the charging unattended. The charging began and then stopped immediately due to a overvoltage.

Only difference is that it wasn't the Cycle satiator but the original charger which came along with the scooter.

But it behaved the same as the cycle satiator I guess.

And now I recall that I measured the voltage with a multimeter in the morning as well and I was really amazed as the voltage meter displayed 57.5 volts which is close to the full battery voltage and where the charger voltage was set before.

But the scooter display and the Neptune App displayed the real battery voltage which was about 52V.

And now I checked the Neptune MOSFET status, and it is 0x42. And the charging is not working at that status.

I didn't recycle the Neptune power in between the charges.

It seems the Neptune needs a power recycle in between the battery charges. But why is that?

It is strange and somewhat dangerous as if I sometime forget to do the power recycle the charging doesn't start and the battery is empty at the morning and I can't get to the work. And I don't believe my employer accepts the explanation that the Neptune denied the battery charging :)
 
psatu said:
Alright, now I tested the charging again and a very strange behaviour happened.

I first connected the charger to the Neptune and powered the charger and everything was fine, the charging began and I let it charge a few minutes and then disconnected the charger from the mains outlet.
Click to expand...

>>> when no CHARGE CURRENT is detected after 30 seconds, Neptune CHARGE MOSFET is OPEN (no more charge current can go through)

psatu said:
I then disconnected the Neptune android client as well to simulate the real case where the charging is done in a garage.

Then after a few minutes rest I started the charging process again. I connected the charger and powered it up and the charging began. But after only a few seconds the charging ceased and there is a message on the Charger Display "Batt voltage too high 61V" !


This is a Cycle Satiator charger which is an intelligent charger and detects the battery status and acts accordingly.

Then gradually, in a few seconds time, the voltage dropped below the Satiator charge voltage threshold and the charging began again and almost instantly the voltage raised to some 61 volts and comes the same message "Bat Voltage too high" and the charging stopped and so on endlessly.

I measured the voltage by a multimeter from a charging connector and it was really high, 62.3 volts. It is a 14S Li-ion battery and the real voltage of the battery was like 52.5V.
Click to expand...

>>> i think because of Neptune act like OPEN CIRCUIT, can you open Android client to monitor the Neptune measured voltage ?


psatu said:
Now I think I know what happened the last night when I did the charging unattended. The charging began and then stopped immediately due to a overvoltage.

Only difference is that it wasn't the Cycle satiator but the original charger which came along with the scooter.

But it behaved the same as the cycle satiator I guess.

And now I recall that I measured the voltage with a multimeter in the morning as well and I was really amazed as the voltage meter displayed 57.5 volts which is close to the full battery voltage and where the charger voltage was set before.

But the scooter display and the Neptune App displayed the real battery voltage which was about 52V.
Click to expand...

>>> you mean measure Neptune's CHARGE / DISCHARGE terminals was 57.5v vs Neptune displayed 52V ?


psatu said:
And now I checked the Neptune MOSFET status, and it is 0x42. And the charging is not working at that status.

I didn't recycle the Neptune power in between the charges.

It seems the Neptune needs a power recycle in between the battery charges. But why is that?
Click to expand...

>>> it is because we want to terminate CHARGER to prevent it from re-active again, e.g. if you want to charge up to 90% or 4.1v cell voltage, when Neptune measured 4.1v it's STOP CHARGING, if we CLOSE the CHARGE MOSFET again, the charger immediately charge again, and stop and re-active loop ....


psatu said:
It is strange and somewhat dangerous as if I sometime forget to do the power recycle the charging doesn't start and the battery is empty at the morning and I can't get to the work. And I don't believe my employer accepts the explanation that the Neptune denied the battery charging :)
Click to expand...

>>> when DISCHARGE current is detected, Neptune CLOSE its CHARGE MOSFET immediately, that's mean after CHARGE job is finished, throttle on scooter, everything back to normal, and at night back to garage, plug in CHARGER, start charging and then either CHARGER is disconnected or charge job is completed, Neptune OPEN its CHARGE MOSFET and wait for next morning scooter go riding.

we have CHARGER detect circuit before, but removed long time again, understand there's tradeoff between safety and convenience, but safety is highest priority on BMS, sorry about that, or if you have any idea or workflow suggestion please don't hesitate to tell me.

btw, i don't know if your CHARGER is STOP CHARGING in the middle of CHARGE job ? e.g. some charger will stop charging and wait for cell voltage resting do some calculation stuffs ... if resting is too long, it might cause Neptune think it's CHARGER complete charging.
can you please try again, either manually start charging by Android client or plug in charger, once charging is started, you see charge current value via Android client, then remove the charger and time counting... wait ... keep look at the Android client notification message popup, you should see message like "CV current low or charger is disconnected", so if your charger stop charging in the middle of charge job e.g. to let cell voltage resting for measurement, if this time was too long, it might caused Neptune stop charging in the mid-night ?
 
>>> i think because of Neptune act like OPEN CIRCUIT, can you open Android client to monitor the Neptune measured voltage ?

Yes, I checked voltage on the Neptune App simultaneously. And the neptune App displays the correct battery voltage all the time. And so does the scooter own voltage display which is connected to the motor controller.
But as the Cycle satiator and two multimeters both measured the overvoltage, there really must have been an overvoltage situation, but only at the Neptune output terminal / controller battery input terminal. They are the same of course. The controller is kind of strange, so the overvoltage may well had come from the controller.


>>> you mean measure Neptune's CHARGE / DISCHARGE terminals was 57.5v vs Neptune displayed 52V ?

That's right, but see the remark above. perhaps the motor controller has some peculiar circuit which rises the voltage on the terminal, I really don't know.


>>> it is because we want to terminate CHARGER to prevent it from re-active again, e.g. if you want to charge up to 90% or 4.1v cell voltage, when Neptune measured 4.1v it's STOP CHARGING, if we CLOSE the CHARGE MOSFET again, the charger immediately charge again, and stop and re-active loop ....

You are right, I forgot the BMS has this cell charge voltage limit on its own. I get the idea now.


>>> when DISCHARGE current is detected, Neptune CLOSE its CHARGE MOSFET immediately, that's mean after CHARGE job is finished, throttle on scooter, everything back to normal, and at night back to garage, plug in CHARGER, start charging and then either CHARGER is disconnected or charge job is completed, Neptune OPEN its CHARGE MOSFET and wait for next morning scooter go riding.

But this is not what actually happened yesterday morning. As there where just so much charge left on the battery that I could rode to the office, and at the office I connected the charger to the scooter as usual, and the charging didn't start but only after I powered the Neptune off and then back on again.



we have CHARGER detect circuit before, but removed long time again, understand there's tradeoff between safety and convenience, but safety is highest priority on BMS, sorry about that, or if you have any idea or workflow suggestion please don't hesitate to tell me.

btw, i don't know if your CHARGER is STOP CHARGING in the middle of CHARGE job ? e.g. some charger will stop charging and wait for cell voltage resting do some calculation stuffs ... if resting is too long, it might cause Neptune think it's CHARGER complete charging.
can you please try again, either manually start charging by Android client or plug in charger, once charging is started, you see charge current value via Android client, then remove the charger and time counting... wait ... keep look at the Android client notification message popup, you should see message like "CV current low or charger is disconnected", so if your charger stop charging in the middle of charge job e.g. to let cell voltage resting for measurement, if this time was too long, it might caused Neptune stop charging in the mid-night ?
[/quote]

Yes, there is that notification on the neptune App when the charging is finished, that is the normal situation. But this has not happened in the middle of the charging.
When the charging failed due to the MOSFET being open, it never started at all.
Every time when charging had started, it had finished the charging normally as well. That is not a problem.


All in all, I have to remember to make a Neptune power recycle after every ride, and check the MOSFET status to be sure the charging will begin.

Moreover, yesterday night, when I checked the MOSFET state, it was 0x40 after the charging had finished. What does that mean? The charging MOSFET was open I thing, but what other status is being indicated?
The first time I checked the MOSFET state after a charge process, the state was 0x41. And the other time it was 0x42 I think.


And how about this speed detection feature?
"By the way does the speed detection circuit accept a signal straight from a motor HAL sensors?
That is 5V signal on a magnet position and 0V otherwise.
The Cycle analyst for example works straight from motor HAL pulses.
But if it is not working how about using solid state relay in between the Motor HAL and Neptune?"
 
psatu said:
That's right, but see the remark above. perhaps the motor controller has some peculiar circuit which rises the voltage on the terminal, I really don't know.
Click to expand...

>>> could you detach Neptune and Speed Controller and make its LOADING terminal ?

psatu said:
But this is not what actually happened yesterday morning. As there where just so much charge left on the battery that I could rode to the office, and at the office I connected the charger to the scooter as usual, and the charging didn't start but only after I powered the Neptune off and then back
Click to expand...

>>> please monitor it for few days, every-time before charger is plug-in can you open Android client to monitor both MOSFETs' status ?
0x40 = both mosfet are open / off
0x43 = both mosfet are close / on
0x41 = charge mosfet is close (on), and discharge mosfet is open (off)
0x42 = charge mosfet is open (off), and discharge mosfet is close (on)


psatu said:
Moreover, yesterday night, when I checked the MOSFET state, it was 0x40 after the charging had finished. What does that mean? The charging MOSFET was open I thing, but what other status is being indicated?
The first time I checked the MOSFET state after a charge process, the state was 0x41. And the other time it was 0x42 I think.
Click to expand...

>>> 0x40 can be triggered by OVER-CHARGE-CURRENT / OVER-TEMPERATURE is detected
>>> power-on >> 0x43 >> CHARGER plugin >> 0x43 >> start charging automatically >> 0x43 >> charge job completed >> 0x42 >> discharge or throttle applied >> 0x43 >> over-discharge-current / over-charge-current / over-temperature >> 0x40 >> 10 seconds resume >> 0x43

>>> power-on >> 0x43 >> discharge current detect >> 0x43 >> under-cell-voltage / over-discharge current is detected >> 0x41 >> charge current is detected >> 0x43

bear this in mind, do more observations, we can discuss later when workflow bugs is confirmed

psatu said:
HALL signal as speed signal ?
Click to expand...

>>> Neptune's speed signal is simply short one pin to ground as interrupt, if you can short one pin to the ground on each HALL transition, it can simulated our speed sensor

>>> We are preparing the Skateboard edition which is able to communicate with VESC however it is 10 cells version :(


Danny
 
speedict said:
>>> when DISCHARGE current is detected, Neptune CLOSE its CHARGE MOSFET immediately, that's mean after CHARGE job is finished, throttle on scooter, everything back to normal
Click to expand...

By the way, I now checked the MOSFET state after I rode to the office, and the status is 0x42. And the charging does Not start as I tried it, even though discharge has happened!
 
speedict said:
psatu said:
By the way, I now checked the MOSFET state after I rode to the office, and the status is 0x42. And the charging does Not start as I tried it, even though discharge has happened!
Click to expand...

>>> REGNERATIVE kicked in ?
Click to expand...

That's right. The scooter has a motor brake, and it uses regen braking all the time. And it's the only brake the scooter has, and a very strong regen brake.
 
psatu said:
That's right. The scooter has a motor brake, and it uses regen braking all the time. And it's the only brake the scooter has, and a very strong regen brake.
Click to expand...

>>> look like your last action was braking in front of your office door, and once Neptune detected CHARGE CURRENT it's start CHARGE JOB, and when scooter's park / stop inside office like CHARGER unPLUG >> 0x42 AND no DISCHARGE CURRENT is detected, therefore it's remain to 0x42 not 0x43 ...

We are aware of this workflow, however on eBike application regenerative braking is not main features unlike SKATEBOARD or SCOOTER regenerative is MUST-HAVE feature, we will put regenerative on our to-do list, features with additional over-cell-voltage cut-off, one for cell-protection, one for regenerative e.g. regenerative-over-cell-voltage cut-off set to 4.2v, and charge-cell-over-voltage set to 4.1v.
however with this feature support we need to detect SPEED as well, e.g. SPEED > 0 + CHARGE_CURRENT detected = REGENERATIVE, SPEED=0 + CHARGE_CURRENT detected = CHARGER PLUG-IN

give me some time to think about it, because we want 1 firmware apply to eBike and Skateboard Neptune edition.


Danny
 
I think we can simply modify the workflow of "zero current detection or current below CV current" to accommodate the regenerative trigger as CHARGING.

current workflow
==============
CHARGE / REGEN CURRENT is detected >> charge job started >> when CURRENT is below 0.6A (tiny CV current) or 0A (charger unplug) >> charge job end >> status = 0x41

new workflow
============
CHARGE / REGEN CURRENT is detected >> charge job started >> when CURRENT is less than 0.6A AND greater than 0A >> charge job end >> status = 0x41

CHARGE / REGEN CURRENT is detected >> charge job started >> when CURRENT is equal 0A >> status remain = 0x43 >> stop all balance work if triggered >> wait for other CHARGE / REGEN CURRENT is detected


Danny
 
speedict said:
firmware 1.1.7 with regenerative support

1.1.7
=====
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gFDgaYyICKYwtwRd0GKf-YGCwp3rj2sV


firmware upgrade guide
======================
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IDJO2_rehNVcyd4EGk3nuSudQIdmDqcV
Click to expand...

Great! I'll run it and see how it performs...
 
Hello, my name is Alex, I have had the Neptune 15 for almost a year, I bought it to get an extension of the Turbo levo.
Due to personal problems I could not finish it until now, and the Neptune15 seems fantastic to me.
The firmware I have is 01.00.10, but I see that there are new updates, but they do not appear on my device, how can I update to the latest version?
Another thing, see if you can help me, I use the Blevo program to control this with the Turbo levo, but the Neptune's Bluetooth does not recognize me, so there are parameters that I cannot control, do you know if someone has got?
Regards.
 
AlexTM said:
Hello, my name is Alex, I have had the Neptune 15 for almost a year, I bought it to get an extension of the Turbo levo.
Due to personal problems I could not finish it until now, and the Neptune15 seems fantastic to me.
The firmware I have is 01.00.10, but I see that there are new updates, but they do not appear on my device, how can I update to the latest version?
Click to expand...

please download both firmware and upgrade guide for the latest firmware upgrade.

1.1.7
=====
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gFDga ... GCwp3rj2sV


firmware upgrade guide
======================
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IDJO2 ... udQIdmDqcV



AlexTM said:
Another thing, see if you can help me, I use the Blevo program to control this with the Turbo levo, but the Neptune's Bluetooth does not recognize me, so there are parameters that I cannot control, do you know if someone has got?
Regards.
Click to expand...

sorry about that since Neptune can work and communicate directly with Android device.



Danny
 
I am having trouble with the update.
I followed the steps of the link pdf.
But I don't upload the latest version.
I have tried several times but it gives me connection error.
Can you go back to the previous version? That one worked fine
And now several cells tell me they have no voltage, have you changed the bms connections? it's a 10S2P
I'm having cold sweats, please help me.

VhoyD9p.png

lJOFwoP.png
 
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