Waynemarlow
10 kW
Reload the stock options byte.itsallwhite said:
New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
- Thread starter larsottar
- Start date
Waynemarlow
10 kW
Yup its teh seal that has broken up. Try contacting EcoCycles who maybe getting some seals in. I think we need to regularly take the cover off and re grease the seal locating surface.skestans said:
Waynemarlow said:
In my second motor this seal came out and was torn to pieces after a few km's. I hadn't removed the cover on that motor at all, so it was assembled somehow improperly in the factory. Now I'm using only silicone molded to the cover, so far so good but no idea how long it will last.
eyebyesickle
10 kW
skestans
100 W
Yes it’s smashedfamichiki said:
Here is a clearer shot: https://i.imgur.com/otxB9hY.jpg
skestans said:Yes it’s smashed
Here is a clearer shot: https://i.imgur.com/otxB9hY.jpg
Do you think the big gear may have been rubbing on it? Do you have much play or wobble in the spider or axle? I wonder if those covers are available separately.
eyebyesickle
10 kW
famichiki said:
"Any color you want them in as long as it's black"
- Henry Ford
Haha, yeah
itsallwhite
100 mW
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2019
- Messages
- 36
eyebyesickle said:
Thanks for the info - I will give that a try as soon as I get home, thanks!
Thank you so much this worked! Brilliant - cant thank you enough! Cheers
Continuing on my quest for removing play.
Adding a shim washer to the sprag clutch/big gear wasn't as effective as I'd hoped. After re-fitting the spider the wobble was reduced but still excessive.
As others have found, the tolerances between sprag clutch and torque sensor are poor and would benefit from sleeving. On mine the little key is also loose and wouldn't hurt to be a better fit.
But the factory sprag clutches have an issue too. Comparing it to the third-party replacement I purchased, the factory item has a much larger radius curvature on each side of the inner race. This means that the flat contact area with the shaft is reduced. The replacement has very minimal curvature and is a much better fit. You can see the differences in the photo below, especially around the key way.
Looking at the wear pattern on the torque sensor, we can see that even though the sprag clutch is specified at 16mm thick the contact area is only about 10mm
In comparison, the replacement sprag clutch has a wider contact area of about 13.5mm.
Original sprag clutch.
Replacement sprag clutch.
Additionally, the torque sensor has a small protrustion that the sprag clutch sits up against. Fitting the shim here like on the older models may be better than on the circlip side.
I also experimented with using aluminium foil as a shim, this actually worked really well with the original sprag clutch. There was still play but it's within the sprag clutch and so we are stuck with it. The best I can measure is that the foil is 0.07mm thick. It was a tight fit and you need to grease the foil and work slowly or it catches and tears. I needed to gently tap mine on.
Finding shim or feeler gauge in this thickness is difficult and can be expensive, but a quick search turned up this.
https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110300238820/
Edit.. I just bought some assorted brass shim sheet cheap.
Adding a shim washer to the sprag clutch/big gear wasn't as effective as I'd hoped. After re-fitting the spider the wobble was reduced but still excessive.
As others have found, the tolerances between sprag clutch and torque sensor are poor and would benefit from sleeving. On mine the little key is also loose and wouldn't hurt to be a better fit.
But the factory sprag clutches have an issue too. Comparing it to the third-party replacement I purchased, the factory item has a much larger radius curvature on each side of the inner race. This means that the flat contact area with the shaft is reduced. The replacement has very minimal curvature and is a much better fit. You can see the differences in the photo below, especially around the key way.
Looking at the wear pattern on the torque sensor, we can see that even though the sprag clutch is specified at 16mm thick the contact area is only about 10mm
In comparison, the replacement sprag clutch has a wider contact area of about 13.5mm.
Original sprag clutch.
Replacement sprag clutch.
Additionally, the torque sensor has a small protrustion that the sprag clutch sits up against. Fitting the shim here like on the older models may be better than on the circlip side.
I also experimented with using aluminium foil as a shim, this actually worked really well with the original sprag clutch. There was still play but it's within the sprag clutch and so we are stuck with it. The best I can measure is that the foil is 0.07mm thick. It was a tight fit and you need to grease the foil and work slowly or it catches and tears. I needed to gently tap mine on.
Finding shim or feeler gauge in this thickness is difficult and can be expensive, but a quick search turned up this.
https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110300238820/
Edit.. I just bought some assorted brass shim sheet cheap.
skestans
100 W
I tried to find out but I can’t understand how it happened. There is no wobble and no rubbing marks on that spot on the spider. Total mystery. I have another bike and I bought the motor at the same time, and on that one the cover is intact even though it has more or less the same number of km.famichiki said:skestans said:Yes it’s smashed
Here is a clearer shot: https://i.imgur.com/otxB9hY.jpg
Do you think the big gear may have been rubbing on it? Do you have much play or wobble in the spider or axle? I wonder if those covers are available separately.
skestans
100 W
So anyway, I have found replacement plastic covers on aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009857653.html but where do you get the seals?
The original seller (EUNORAU) is being an ass, saying there is no way this broke on its own, so it's not covered by their warranty, and so I have to pay 25 USD for shipping a new seal... Not recommending that store to anyone anymore!
The original seller (EUNORAU) is being an ass, saying there is no way this broke on its own, so it's not covered by their warranty, and so I have to pay 25 USD for shipping a new seal... Not recommending that store to anyone anymore!
Waynemarlow
10 kW
Yup, they are so cheap as to keep one in stockfamichiki said:skestans said:Yes it’s smashed
Here is a clearer shot: https://i.imgur.com/otxB9hY.jpg
Do you think the big gear may have been rubbing on it? Do you have much play or wobble in the spider or axle? I wonder if those covers are available separately.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bicycle-Motor-Dust-Cover-For-TSDZ-2-TongSheng-center-Convenient-Practical-Useful/383646646759?hash=item59531f41e7:g:eOEAAOSwR4JfGcmt
skestans
100 W
Waynemarlow said:Yup, they are so cheap as to keep one in stockfamichiki said:skestans said:Yes it’s smashed
Here is a clearer shot: https://i.imgur.com/otxB9hY.jpg
Do you think the big gear may have been rubbing on it? Do you have much play or wobble in the spider or axle? I wonder if those covers are available separately.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bicycle-Motor-Dust-Cover-For-TSDZ-2-TongSheng-center-Convenient-Practical-Useful/383646646759?hash=item59531f41e7:g:eOEAAOSwR4JfGcmt
That's the old version though, be aware there is a 3 screws and a 4 screws version depending on what motor revision you have. I'll ask if they sell seals too.
Waynemarlow
10 kW
Asked but no only the covers seem available. I wasn't aware there are two different styles of the cover on the later engines.
Waynemarlow
10 kW
We've had the same on 1 cover and we put that down to the extreme mud condition we were in at the time. Our cover was simply worn away by the abrasiveness of the mud and the spider turning with the peddles.skestans said:I tried to find out but I can’t understand how it happened. There is no wobble and no rubbing marks on that spot on the spider. Total mystery. I have another bike and I bought the motor at the same time, and on that one the cover is intact even though it has more or less the same number of km.famichiki said:skestans said:Yes it’s smashed
Here is a clearer shot: https://i.imgur.com/otxB9hY.jpg
Do you think the big gear may have been rubbing on it? Do you have much play or wobble in the spider or axle? I wonder if those covers are available separately.
skestans
100 W
I looked behind the plastic cover and there is no trace of the seal. I have no idea where it went because what I got out was only about a third of the total diameter. I expected to find the rest of it chewed up by the gears or something.
Does it sit in the plastic cover’s lip normally?
Does it sit in the plastic cover’s lip normally?
Waynemarlow
10 kW
Look up how an XRing seal works and you'll understand that the Oring part is actually stretched over the bearing and can't slide, its the outer lip that then seals against the inner section of where the seal sits within that plastic cover. Seems odd and contrary to a normal seal.
AF7JA
100 W
eyebyesickle said:
Where did you get it?
Could a standard V seal fit also? I don't know the width from the stock seal. ID=80mm OD=86mm W= ?Waynemarlow said:
VA80 or VA080 needs a support width of 6.8mm and seals max.width of 10.2mm, but OD is imho 98mm, which is a lot more than 86mm, but I don't know how this fit with the plastic cover.
X seal standard dimension of X0041 looks imho too small, thickness is width too 1,78mm (OD~83,5mm)
Standard V and X seal dimensions:
V seal dimensions
X seal dimensions
Edit:
XR is also an X ring, but wider W=3,5mm
https://sealware.de/customer/showproducts/catid/xringe
price indication
Elinx said:
The factory seal is 4mm thick (from face of big gear) and 3mm wide. The rise on the big gear is 8mm. The internal rise on the cover is about 4.5mm. There is a couple of mm gap under the cover, so the seal is only partially seated within it. But so far I can't find anything better that will fit.
It's a shame there's no complete seal, bearing or other improvement kits etc available for this motor. It's been a real pain hunting around for the various bits, even the big circlip is an odd thickness (1.2mm) and not easily available here.
skestans
100 W
Im having trouble imagining it, and Wikipedia didn’t help much.Waynemarlow said:
Do you mean that when it stretches over what it seals, the outer tips of the X kinda bend inwards so that the tips of the X end up touching each other and that’s what makes the lip of the seal, pressing against the surface to seal? Basically the X turns into an 8?
Retrorockit
1 kW
The Xring seal has one inner, and one outer lip facing in, and 1 each facing out.
Lubricant for the seal can stay clean on the shaft and bore in between the 2 lips. It's a 2 way seal.
It slides on both the shaft and in the bore for low friction. So it will seem loose compared to other seals.
Lubricant for the seal can stay clean on the shaft and bore in between the 2 lips. It's a 2 way seal.
It slides on both the shaft and in the bore for low friction. So it will seem loose compared to other seals.
