I have arrived at three presets, with those on the digital aux switch, and speed limits on each, and the pot adjusts the limits. I was finding it slow to bring the power back after coasting at speed then hitting a hill, it would lag until the speed was a few km below the set limit. I looked into the [ SLim->PSGain ] setting and adjusted it from 50 to 75. Much better in some shorts tests, will take it for a decent run tomorrow and hopefully the lag is gone completely.
Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release
- Thread starter justin_le
- Start date
I'm so close, but this delay in coming back after speed limit is driving me nuts.
Expected behaviour: Drop below speed limit, it puts some power in motor, not much just to maintain speed limit. It responds quickly, within a drop if 1km.
Actual behaviour: Drop below speed limit, nothing, until about 3-4km below speed limit, then bang, all the power allowed on the PAS setting is delivered, until speed limit. If I go over, for just a little bit, it always takes a large drop below to deliver any power, throttle or PAS. It's definitely speed limit, as the flag shows on diagnostic.
It's completely shit. I'm totally considering putting the Bafang stock bits back in because so far this CA has just been a waste of money and time for me.
Attached is my current hex file. I hope someone can help.
View attachment CA3-12 Mongoose Settings.zip
Expected behaviour: Drop below speed limit, it puts some power in motor, not much just to maintain speed limit. It responds quickly, within a drop if 1km.
Actual behaviour: Drop below speed limit, nothing, until about 3-4km below speed limit, then bang, all the power allowed on the PAS setting is delivered, until speed limit. If I go over, for just a little bit, it always takes a large drop below to deliver any power, throttle or PAS. It's definitely speed limit, as the flag shows on diagnostic.
It's completely shit. I'm totally considering putting the Bafang stock bits back in because so far this CA has just been a waste of money and time for me.
Attached is my current hex file. I hope someone can help.
View attachment CA3-12 Mongoose Settings.zip
DanGT86
100 kW
Much like the throttle surging issue there is a speed gain that you can mess with. this setting controls the amount of overshoot before it acts in both directions. The idea is to narrow this window as tight as you can get it until it feels like it's surging. I don't know right off hand what the setting is called but but you should be able to find it. Check in the general limiting settings as well as the PAS settings.
CA are nice but like all adjustable things they can be frustrating until you get them set just right.
Expand the speed settings explanation on this page. It will explain the settings I think you are looking for:
SLim->IntSGain
Slim->PSGain
Slim->DSGain
https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-analyst-3.html#user-manuals
If you have given it a good shot and still cant get it figured out you can always email the tech support email at ebikes.ca. Justin is a busy man but he'll usually get back to you with some ballpark settings you can try.
CA are nice but like all adjustable things they can be frustrating until you get them set just right.
Expand the speed settings explanation on this page. It will explain the settings I think you are looking for:
SLim->IntSGain
Slim->PSGain
Slim->DSGain
https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-analyst-3.html#user-manuals
If you have given it a good shot and still cant get it figured out you can always email the tech support email at ebikes.ca. Justin is a busy man but he'll usually get back to you with some ballpark settings you can try.
This is about how my SB Cruiser works, using either throttle or PAS. I've attached my settings file in case you wish to try any of the settings I'm using. Basically it is just holding the speed about 0.1MPH below the limit.Scotty T said:
My guess is it is either one of the Slim gain settings as noted in the previous post, or it is one of the throttle ramping settings, as those are the most different between ours, for relevant settings.
View attachment SB Cruiser 071519 CA3-14 redo from scratch 000001a.zip
amberwolf said:
Thanks mate, I've had a little bit of luck playing with speed limit gain settings, and I've left my PAS and throttle ramping as they were because your setting off 99v was too much off the line. I've arrived at PSGain 2v/km/h, IntSGain 70 and DSGain 90. It seems pretty good, I will need to take a longer run to see how it goes. It is a CA3-DPS so it has their speedo, it would be great if there were absolute settings that worked with the integrated speedo but maybe I don't quite understand how it works. Much closer than last night though, cheers
There is an improvement when going up hill or on the flat, it no longer speeds right up and over the limit dropping off and surging again, it will hold around +/- 0.2-0.5km/h of the limit with the settings I've described in the last post.
But I still get the long delay after it's been coasting along above the set limit say down a hill, and then I hit the uphill and it's dropping 3km or more below the limit before the power will start to ramp up again, speed limit flag is flashing until about 22km/h when I have the speed set to 25km/h.
This happens at any speed limit too, so if I set the limit to 10km/h it takes until it drops to 7-8km/h for the power to kick back in. The SLim is also disabling the throttle and it won't activate until several km's below the limit, it's no fun for commuting on my fairly flat ride, I'll be chugging along at 27 because there is a slight downhill, hit the incline, nothing happens 'til I drop a few km, and I can't even give it a little boost with the throttle after losing my momentum.
None of the gain adjustments have made any difference to this delay. It really ruins the experience of commuting on the e-bike so I hope I can do something about it.
But I still get the long delay after it's been coasting along above the set limit say down a hill, and then I hit the uphill and it's dropping 3km or more below the limit before the power will start to ramp up again, speed limit flag is flashing until about 22km/h when I have the speed set to 25km/h.
This happens at any speed limit too, so if I set the limit to 10km/h it takes until it drops to 7-8km/h for the power to kick back in. The SLim is also disabling the throttle and it won't activate until several km's below the limit, it's no fun for commuting on my fairly flat ride, I'll be chugging along at 27 because there is a slight downhill, hit the incline, nothing happens 'til I drop a few km, and I can't even give it a little boost with the throttle after losing my momentum.
None of the gain adjustments have made any difference to this delay. It really ruins the experience of commuting on the e-bike so I hope I can do something about it.
mrbill
10 kW
I have the same problem: Coast down a hill on a road with a dip at the bottom followed by a climb, and the bike speed drops way below the speed limit before motor power kicks in.
Using firmware version 3.12 I recently spent some time trying to improve the speed regulation when transitioning from a held max speed (using regen) on a down-grade to power application to maintain the max speed on a following up-grade. I tried increasing IntSGain, and this reduced slightly the recovery time slightly at the expense of oscillation about the max speed during coasting, that annoying feeling of riding as a passenger in a car with a driver who pumps the brakes constantly. Quite annoying. Increasing PSGain had a similar effect, while decreasing DSGain made no difference. I also tried increasing the throttle and PAS ramps, but that made little or no difference at the expense of more frequent drivetrain "slamming".
I concluded that I had found close to optimal feedback parameters years ago and could live with the delayed power recovery more than the oscillating, since the places where a road goes quickly from downhill to uphill are not too common, but long periods of coasting are frequently experienced.
I suspect there are default parameters with low gain in place for this use case. It would be better if there were separate adjustable feedback parameters, but memory in the CA3 may be tight.
Using firmware version 3.12 I recently spent some time trying to improve the speed regulation when transitioning from a held max speed (using regen) on a down-grade to power application to maintain the max speed on a following up-grade. I tried increasing IntSGain, and this reduced slightly the recovery time slightly at the expense of oscillation about the max speed during coasting, that annoying feeling of riding as a passenger in a car with a driver who pumps the brakes constantly. Quite annoying. Increasing PSGain had a similar effect, while decreasing DSGain made no difference. I also tried increasing the throttle and PAS ramps, but that made little or no difference at the expense of more frequent drivetrain "slamming".
I concluded that I had found close to optimal feedback parameters years ago and could live with the delayed power recovery more than the oscillating, since the places where a road goes quickly from downhill to uphill are not too common, but long periods of coasting are frequently experienced.
I suspect there are default parameters with low gain in place for this use case. It would be better if there were separate adjustable feedback parameters, but memory in the CA3 may be tight.
justin_le said:
Does this damage the ca in anyway? Trying to find a way to turn it off when not riding :lol:
Or maybe hooking up a switch to the v+ on the 6pin plug?
Or can you program the third button on this to turn it off? https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/ca-accessories/aux-input/ca3-daux-slim.html
forcefed said:
Turn off power to it (disconnect battery positive from the CA power wire).
Is there any reason why the "electric freewheel" feature that is inlcuded in the Phaserunner controllers is not implemented in the Cycle Analyst? I cant see why it should not work (except memory space, perhaps?). It would have been a HUGE driveability upgrade to basically all mid-drive systems (to keep the driveline engaged when you release the throttle for an instant).
The electronic freewheeling feature of the Phaserunner works by maintaining a low set phase amps - which is a number that the CA3 can't see. The Cycle Analyst only has access to battery amps.
To get a generally similar result via the CA, I've read of people setting the throttle input start voltage just a hair higher than the actual resting voltage of the throttle (0.01v higher or thereabout), thus constantly maintaining a few watts to the motor even when the throttle isn't engaged. I've never tried that myself, though.
To get a generally similar result via the CA, I've read of people setting the throttle input start voltage just a hair higher than the actual resting voltage of the throttle (0.01v higher or thereabout), thus constantly maintaining a few watts to the motor even when the throttle isn't engaged. I've never tried that myself, though.
DanGT86
100 kW
I thought about trying to duplicate an electric freewheel with a CA using a PAS sensor attached to the wheel hub. My thinking is to lock the pedal assist power to a small value just enough to keep the slack out of the drive chain and have it use that value when my hand throttle is at zero because it would think the wheel rotation was pedal rotation. This would make it a virtual freewheel but would keep it from wanting to creep forward at a dead stop because there would be no rotation on the PAS sensor mounted to the wheel unless the wheel was spinning.
I guess one could do the minimum throttle output trick then have a drive/neutral switch on the handle bars that basically triggers the electric brake signal so the bike is not trying to creep all the time when you are stopped. Kinda like how an auto transmission car creeps when in drive.
I guess one could do the minimum throttle output trick then have a drive/neutral switch on the handle bars that basically triggers the electric brake signal so the bike is not trying to creep all the time when you are stopped. Kinda like how an auto transmission car creeps when in drive.
DanGT86 said:
That sounds like a pretty good idea for a workaround. Unfortunately I dont think I can use it because I use a torque sensing bottom bracket as my main throttle input. It uses both cadence and torque to calculate human watt and apply a multiplier based on that. Also I think the throttle overrides whatever input comes from the PAS sensor.
NCC1941 said:
Ah, OK, I thought it used battery amps. Should still be get decent results by using battery amps, shouldnt it?
Anyway, Im way too impatient, so I ordered a baserunner and a Bafang G311 that I will try to mount as a mid drive. I'm hoping to make a lightweight system with smooth and fast response. I'll see how that turns out
Not directly.cnrd said:
You could create a preset for throttle use only, and a preset for PAS use only, and different speed limits/etc on each, and switch between them.
The switching can be made automatic-ish by putting a switch on the throttle such that rotating it at all changes the preset used in the CA to/from the throttle preset to the PAS preset, if you are not using the aux in for anything else.
tomjasz
1 GW
My habit of keeping spare parts saved the day. A quick trip to the parts bin and the new CA3 has me up and running in short order.
However, I’m curious as to what may have gone bad and wondering if there’s a fix.
The display just shut off. Turning ignition switch off an on made the CA blink and display a line of gibberish.
$5(7)#&)”C5Bm....
Not exactly but you get the idea.
What’s up?
However, I’m curious as to what may have gone bad and wondering if there’s a fix.
The display just shut off. Turning ignition switch off an on made the CA blink and display a line of gibberish.
$5(7)#&)”C5Bm....
Not exactly but you get the idea.
What’s up?
amberwolf said:
It would be great if you could override PAS by twisting the throttle. It would mean you could twist the throttle and it would just go when the previous issue with the speed dropping way below threshold when encountering a hill after being over speed for a bit. But what kind of switch, it surely would be a clunky solution.
I've actually been hitting my aux digital switch to my no speed limit mode on those uphills where it is slow to respond to under speed to the point where it shits me enough to react.
As I recall, before I got the CA, twisting the throttle with the stock Bafang unit would override whatever PAS mode I was in.
Scotty T said:
Disclaimer; I don't actually own a CA yet, but will be getting one shortly, so I've been reading the instructions!
Could you not just connect the throttle output voltage, to the analogue switch input, so that it changed preset when 2.5v was reached?
Alternatively, could you use the throttle voltage as if it were an analogue input "pot"? My theory goes:
If you set the speed limit at an appropriate value when compared to your closed throttle voltage, your desired speed limit would be active when the throttle was closed, but increase as your throttle was opened. e.g. Closed throttle voltage = 1.25v; set speed limit to 100 MPH to get a closed throttle speed limit of 25 MPH. Fully open throttle = 3.5v, therefore speed limit = 70 MPH.
There are also hi & lo dead band settings that could possibly be used to adjust max & min speed limits. e.g. 25 MPH min, 30 MPH max.
Hi guys! Im hoping someone can answer this. I previously had an external 1mohm Grin shunt before getting a larger one since I am running more power now. I am using a Sabvoton controller set at max. current 200A. The new shunt is rated at 200A and is 75mV. My current numbers on the CA3 were incorrect on my first test run but then I remembered to change the settings for the new shunt.
I tried to change the Rshunt value to 0.375 (75mV÷200) from 1mohm. It is now set at 0.375mohm, but what should I set the AGain and WGain to? At the moment the AGain is 150 and WGain is 15
Would anyone know what I should enter in these fields or leave it like that?
Thanks!
I tried to change the Rshunt value to 0.375 (75mV÷200) from 1mohm. It is now set at 0.375mohm, but what should I set the AGain and WGain to? At the moment the AGain is 150 and WGain is 15
Would anyone know what I should enter in these fields or leave it like that?
Thanks!
Well, it wont' do what *you* need it to do, in taht it doesn't override any limits, but the throttle *does* override PAS, in that if you engage the throttle at all, higher or lower than the PAS output result, the CA's throttle out will be based on the throttle input and not on the PAS input.Scotty T said:
ebike11 said:
You could start off leaving them as they are, but if you find that there is quite a long delay and overshoot in any watts or amps limiting behavior then you would increase them until you get the behavior that you want. If you aren't using the CA3 for amps or watts limiting then these settings won't matter. I presume that you did the switch from low range mode to high range in order to successfully get the 0.375 mOhm setting?
HrKlev said:
This is a great question and was actually on the CA3 roadmap for a while, but we decided to pull it from the list. As NCC1941 pointed out, the CA3 only sees your battery current, not your phase current. At constant phase current the battery current is almost 0A at low speeds and then linearly increases until reaching your actual phase amps once you get near the unloaded cruising speed. It is possible for the CA3 to emulate this behavior and have a setting that is a fixed watts/kph, so as you go faster then it will inject proportionally higher watts even with the throttle off. But even with that algorithm in place it there were also the following two problems:
a) Many motor controllers do not behave well at all when you try to command a very low wattage from them in a constant watts by modulating the throttle. and
b) Many setups have lights, DC-DC converters, and other accessories powered by the CA in a way that the CA also shows the watts of these accessory components. So then if you flip on your headlights or blast a horn or whatever it could add some 10's of watts to the CA's power reading which it couldn't distinguish from watts going into the motor which would mess up this behavior.
Hi all. Reading a few horror stories about people blowing there cycle analyst
Please can someone tell me if it's safe to use this pas sensor
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-sensors/pas-12p-chr.html
Plugged in to the pas plug on 10v running a 22s battery fully charged 92v
Will this setup be ok or do I need to reposition the 10v to the 5v inside the cycle analyst?
Thanks
Please can someone tell me if it's safe to use this pas sensor
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-sensors/pas-12p-chr.html
Plugged in to the pas plug on 10v running a 22s battery fully charged 92v
Will this setup be ok or do I need to reposition the 10v to the 5v inside the cycle analyst?
Thanks
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